KennethT

Sam - very interesting - this is the first time I've done a SV turkey - what happens to the skin that you don't like? Do you find it similar to what happens to chicken skin?

Me too... I boned out the turkey and did a ballottine with the breast and my family's traditional bread stuffing - bagged with a bit of duck fat and then SV at 60C for 4 hours... Right before serving, I'll sear the skin on the ballottine either with torch or hot pan with butter - probably go the butter route for some added buttery goodness... Did the legs confit style - salted for about 12 hours, bagged with duck fat then SV at 82.2C for 10 hours... I have some duck confit experience SV, but no turkey leg confit experience, so we'll see how this comes out!!! I plan on picking the confit (like pulled pork), and making salty crispy turkey skin crackers with the skin...

Strictly speaking, I believe McGee is not quite correct about this. Or, rather, he may be saying that 140F/60C is the minimum temperature for efficient breakdown of collagen into gelatin. As those of us who practice LT/LT sous vice cookery know, collagen begins to dissolve into gelatin at around 122F/50C to 130F/54C and collagenase is active down to 130F/54C. These reactions simply take a lot longer at these lower temperatures. This is why, for example, one can cook collagen-rich meats at 54.5C for 48 hours and both convert the collagen to gelatin and maintain a medium-rare texture. FWIW, I take exception to SeanDirty's temperature chart, which is a bit on the low side. I would suggest it's something more like: Very rare: 45–50C Rare: 50–55C Medium rare: 55–60C Medium: 60–65C Medium well: 65–70C Well done: >70C Certainly, cooking SV at 55 seems to just hit the boundary between rare and medium rare (aka, "medium rare on the rare side"). As for cooking something like a pork butt, the comments as to time-versus-temperature are spot on. Unlike wih a naturally tender meat, it is not enough to cook a collagen-rich meat to temperature. No matter what temperature is used, the meat must be held at the target temperature for a sufficient length of time to convert a sufficient amount of the collagen to gelatin. As noted, this reaction is considerably hastened as at higher temperatures, but there is a trade off in moisture loss, etc. It is up to each individual cook to make a final determination as to what combination of time and temperature to use. ← I have to agree with Sam - I (and many others on the SV thread) have done a flank steak SV at 55C (131F) for 24 hours - it comes out medium rare and tender like a filet mignon, but a lot more "beefy"... if I did it for 48 hours, it would be falling-apart-fork-tender....

hi everybody - This is my year to do the main portion of Thanksgiving, and I wanted to do something familiar, but updated and a little "lighter"... I loved the flavor and smell of my grandmother's stuffing recipe - HOWEVER - it always was so heavy and, for lack of a better word, kind of mucky... even though she started with "stale" bread, and browned them in butter, after cooking it was like a solid, singular texture... I found that there are a lot of eggs in the recipe, which probably add to that heavy texture... I was thinking that I could separate the eggs, decrease some of the yolks, and whip up the whites and fold them into the mixture, and then, upon cooking, it would be lighter - almost like a souffle... Anyone have any idea why this wouldn't work??? Also, to make things a bit more complicated, I thought this would be the stuffing of the turkey ballottine that I was planning - so it's a whole turkey breast, boned out, with the stuffing souffle inside - then the whole thing would be cooked sous vide to 140/60 to keep the breast meat nice and juicy (don't worry about the timing/food safety - I have all of the FDA pasteurization times)... Does anyone have an idea if the "souffle" will be any lighter this way than in the past? Do you think it'll expand upon cooking and fill the inside of the ballottine? What if I added some baking powder?? Thanks!

I second the chicken wing "lollipop" - one way to do it upscale is to dip the lollipop in a corndog type batter, deep fry, and serve with a garlic puree and a parsley puree... Robuchon does this with frogs legs and its incredible... I've done it with chicken wings and it works well... Jacques Pepin has a fast way to do the lollipops without a lot of work - it takes him about 10 seconds per wing... basically, you cut off the wingtip, then hold the single bone of the wing (the upper arm) in a towel, and bend the forearm orthogonally to the direction of articulation - so if it bends naturally from left to right, then force it down or up until you break the joint - then just pull back on the upper arm and the 2 bones of the forearm just pop out... pluck out one and discard, cut the meat between the upper arm and forearm sections and then just "wipe" the meat down until it forms a lollipop...

hi everybody - my wife and I will be in PR between Xmas and New Year's... we were looking for some real authentic PR food experiences - we're staying in Rincon for the most part, but will be in San Juan for a night also... but we'll have a car, and don't mind driving to get something worthwhile... Not really interested in the best sushi on the island, or a great french restaurant.... but really, the best lechon, mafongo, roadside empanadas, really fresh fish, etc.... Plus any other great experiences anyone can throw out there that we might not be able to get in NYC.... Thanks!

I had always thought that the main difference between broth and stock had to do with flavor... broth is typically made from both meat and bones so you get more of the flavor, as well as body... stock is usually made only from bones, and therefore, doesn't have as much flavor, but will have lots of body... This makes sense to me from a usage perspective: you want your stock to be neutrally flavored since it is only the base from which to make other things (sauces, soups, etc) - the only thing I want my stock to deliver is body, aka gelatin. This is different from a broth, which could be consumed "as is" - in which case, you don't want something neutrally flavored, but something with a lot of flavor of the original ingredient... As I understand it, a consomme is a refined, clarified broth - one that is completely devoid of fat, and is extremely clear.

ok - this one's a little out there - but it's 5 ingredients... it's the squab breast and foie gras dish from Atelier Robuchon: Squab breast Foie gras Savoy Cabbage Bacon Piment d'Espelette Granted, I think it would be better with some kind of sauce - like a squab reduction or something, but I think it could stand on its own...

Does anyone know where I can find heritage turkeys? Also, are they available somewhere as just parts (just the legs or breast etc) and not the whole bird? Thanks!

Yeah - that definitely is an annoying thing about WF - and then, the inevitable question "are you sure you want this?" once they learn how much their limp, pathetic excuse for a chanterelle costs... I don't understand why they don't give them a photo page with the code numbers for all the produce... Try telling them that the ginger-looking-thing is galangal (which actually doesn't look too bad by the way, when they sporatically have it) AND, if you give them a name that isn't in their list, it makes it worse - like calling a hen of the woods a "maitake" - they look at you like you just asked them to roll around in pig's crap with you after they get off work... sorry... once I get started talking about WF, it's hard to stop... But, my conscience would kill me (and my wife would kill me again after that) if I ever called a chanterelle a "shiitake" or something... however tempting it may be... I've always been disappointed by the Union Square mushroom guy - usually, all they have is crimini, white button, and a portobello or something... I've never seen anything interesting there... but I keep looking from time to time... Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with buying enough to go wholesale... I'm sure you've done this already, but a quick google found American Mushroom Hunters (www.mushroomhunter.com) in NJ... they deal wholesale, so I'm sure they'll ship or deliver in the metro area... Good luck!

Whole Foods sometimes has some decent quality interesting mushrooms... when in season, they'll have porcini, morels, chanterelles... lately, their chanterelles have looked less than inviting though, and sometimes you've got to pick through the pile to find just a few good ones... The biggest problem with WF is that you never know what they're going to have from day to day, or week to week... Just because you see something one week, the next week it can be gone... Sunrise Mart in the East Village usually has some good japanese mushrooms - honshimenji, maitake (hen of the woods) and some other ones I don't recognize... edit to rant about Whole Foods...

hey Daniel - I was wondering if you're the guy I met at Ottomanelli's a few weeks ago... I was the guy in the Thai Tshirt ordering the squab and the foie... we talked about Rhong Tiam (where you were headed for lunch)... If you are that guy - what did you think of Rhong Tiam? I take it from the thread that you've found a new space for NYBC? My wife and I would be interested in joining - anything I should know about? I checked out the info on the website (pretty cool) but didn't see any info on pricing... If you're not that guy, this message will self-destruct in 30 seconds... have a nice day! Ken

I have a general question about using the maltodextrin - I have no experience in working with it... once mixed with the fat in question, how long will it keep in that form? Do you keep it at room temperature, or in the refrigerator? So, for instance, let's say you wanted to make a nutella powder - will it start to clump after a while? Or worse yet turn into a giant nutella ball or nutella rock? Thanks!

Wow - great! I have my 3 (plus the mystery) little 3" high plants planted in a 24" terracotta planter (the same size as what I'm using for the dwarf lime tree).. it actually looks kinda funny - but I started it in a big pot because I was expecting them to grow quite large and voluminous like the grass that they are... That's why I've been a little worried lately because I was expecting them to grow faster...

Wow - that is a great idea... I will definitely try that this week! Kind of reminds me of the potato experiment I did as a kid....

Thanks Carlo - I have no prior lemongrass growing experience, and wasn't sure what to expect... now that I know that it grows slowly, I don't feel like I'm doing anything wrong! I have an extra metal halide plant light that I use for my citrus trees (which are doing great in a manhattan apt. by the way) - so maybe I'll use it for the lemongrass to get it started and see what happens... maybe I can trick it into thinking it's summer... edit - one of the reasons I was a bit worried is that my seeds were pretty old - past the expiration date... but I got 3 out of 15 seeds sprouting (and one that looks like it could be a weed, but it's also growing really slowly - but the leaves are a totally different shape) so I guess I was worried that the old seeds may have stunted the plant's growth...

hey HungryC - I've been trying to grow lemongrass in a sunny windowsill in a NYC apartment, but I'm having a bit of a problem... I planted from seed, and have a few that have sprouted... but it's been weeks, and they're still only 3" tall and look like a single blade of grass... how long does it usually take to grow? Any ideas why mine are growing so slowly? Thanks! edited for stupidity...

Butter? Interesting... is it clarified butter or whole butter? I'd imagine the whole butter would burn... but I definitely agree that it's a totally different ballgame with heads-on shrimp... much more flavor... sometimes, if I don't have the heads, I'll throw in a small handful of chopped up shrimp with the shells to try to boost the flavor a bit...

I know a lot of recipes don't do this, but I like to do my shrimp stock sort of like a lobster stock... so to me, the key to a good shrimp stock is to caramelize the shells well... using pretty high heat and a heavy pot, I add a little bit of canola oil and then fry the shells/legs until they're bright red, moving around quickly so they don't burn. Also, make sure you don't crowd your pot, otherwise you'll be steaming more than frying. I then add a little bit of tomato paste and fry that as well... then I turn down the heat and add mirepoix plus sachet of bay leaf, dried thyme, cracked peppercorns, and a few parsley stems.. I'm not a huge fan of the dried parsley - I think it has a weird flavor... cook until the veggies are soft, then cover with cold water and simmer for about a half hour, skimming any impurities that may come up... strain and cool...

Amen to the gumbo idea... I love it when you have a nice brown roux, really tasty andouille, and a robust shrimp stock... nothing better! Also, sticking with the shrimp and pork theme, you can do shrimp in a chorizo broth by steeping chopped chorizo in the shrimp stock... add a little cilantro.. mmmmmmmmmm

hey Sher - I'm sorry I can't help with any advice, but I was wondering what the Robuchon method was for retrograding potatoes for the puree... is it similar to the Fat Duck method? What temps for how long? Do you do the retrograde step sous-vide in the vacuum bag, or are the potatoes immersed in water to do it? Thanks!

Does Versawhip work with bases that contain fat? ← i cant for the life of me find the kaffir leaves.. is there anything i can use in substitute? ← I can't really think of a good substitute for kaffir lime leaves... it's a very specific flavor/aroma.... I know I have seen them online here and there - if you look for Thai groceries online, they have them, but the shipping costs are pretty high... but the nice thing is that stuff like kaffir lime leaves, galangal, lemongrass freeze really well, so you can get a bunch and save it...

Interesting... thanks - I'll check it out... I don't know about the proportions either... I understand what you mean about some being used as an emulsifier (like a salad dressing) but what about a fat/liquid blend that is already emulsified - like heavy cream? According to the information on the Khymos recipes (linked at the top), making a lime air (just lime juice and water - recipe from texturas el bulli) uses 1.5g lecithin for 500ml liquid - which is 0.3%... a parmesan air (water and parmegiano) uses 0.52% lecithin (1.3g for every 250ml parmesan liquid)... other liquids like mixtures with milk or water/oil mixes use around 0.85% (5g per 570ml) lecithin... so your theory definitely seems to apply - the more fat in the mixture, the more lecithin you'd need...

ok well whatever it is i am trying to achieve, wether it is "air" or "foam" what is the best way to achieve what i am looking for....i want to make an aromatic, light tasting cool texture for my mango gazpacho. now i want to make it like in the youtube video it looks like a tight stable foam/air. i like the kaffir limes with coconut milk, anyone know what is the best procedure the best results. ← I don't know for sure, but underneath the YouTube video, someone recommended using 2g lecithin per 100ml of liquid... But I don't know how additional fats would add to or take away from the foaming properties of the lecithin... I think the best way is just to try it... why don't you start out with 100ml of coconut milk add maybe 4-6 kaffir lime leaf pairs (torn or chiffonade), warm it and gently simmer for 20 min. or so to infuse the flavor... then strain and cool to room temp. (I don't know how the lecithin works at different temps)... then add 1g of lecithin and start blending... if the foam isn't what you want, add .25g more, and keep doing that until you start seeing results that you like... then report back with how much lecithin it took to foam the coconut milk!! haha... Seriously, I'd imagine that liquids with a higher fat content (cream, coconut milk, etc) would require less lecithin than making stable foams out of liquids with no fat ie beet juice or lime juice since you can make a foam out of cold cream with no lecithin (whipped cream)... but this is just a hypothesis - the real way to do it is to try it... I'd try it for you, but I can't find an easy place to find the lecithin in NYC without having to go to the internet... Hope this helps and good luck!!!

I actually love the idea of the kaffir lime scented coconut air... I wouldn't have a recipe because I typically don't work with recipes... but kaffir lime is a leaf from the kaffir lime tree... you can usually find them either fresh or frozen (they freeze great) in an indian or asian grocery... whatever you don't use, just stick in a ziplock bag in the freezer... you don't really want to eat the kaffir lime leaves (they're pretty tough) unless you mince it into fine pieces or chiffonade... but what I like to do is to cut it into strips and simmer them in the coconut milk for about 10-20 minutes... you can't miss their aroma... then just strain them out... edit - the fresh ones would be in the refrigerated case... ← i generally dont work with recipies either its just that i am fairly new in the molecular gastronomy world so i am not too comfortable in messing around on my own yet because like i dont know ratios or what i am "looking for" in a good stable air, etc.... ← I'm still toying with the mol. gast. also - I really haven't gotten that into it yet... just played around with agar agar making hot foams with an ISI whipper... There's a great link to the khymos website which gives lots of example recipes with all different types of hydrocolloids... I don't remember if the link is at the top of this post or not... but you can do a search for it and then download the pdf... edit - yes, the link was posted by Jonathan Kaplan at the top of the post...