KennethT

BKF is good, but I've found that a much easier solution to getting rid of the polymerized fat on hte inside is to fill the pan with water, dump in a bunch of baking soda, and let boil for 10-20 minutes.... Comes out factory clean with virtually no elbow grease... plus, the baking soda residue gets all over the stovetop, which when you wipe it away cleans that too... hehe... I don't know if this is ok with non-stick though...

I've been writing to one of the USA sales managers of Ajiusa and am ANXIOUSLY awaiting my samples... he has given me some pointers in addition to what is on the website: This is what he said: "Because ACTIVA is a live enzyme, it is affected by both oxygen and moisture. For this reason, ACTIVA is packed in a sealed foil pouch lined with its own oxygen barrier layer. The shelf you can obtain, once opened, will depend upon how long the bag remains open and under what conditions. We recommend opening the bag and taking out what you intend to use and then closing it immediately. If you have the capability, I generally recommend heat sealing and place in a vacuum bag and keeping it in the freezer. This will give you the longest shelf life. Six months is possible, three months for sure." Also, in a different email, he wrote: "Here are a couple of quick pointers on the use of the ingredient. Please, first and foremost, remember the enzyme will experience oxidation in the presence of air. When you receive the samples - don't open the pouches along the "tear lines" in the top of the 100 g pack, take pair of scissors and cut the corner of the bag at an angle - just enough to pour out the volume that you want to work with. Then with the remaining material - fold the mylar bag opening over a couple of times - and seal it with a paperclip or binder clip. If you have a small cryovac machine - you could vacuum the open sample before placing it back in to the freezer. An even better option is to heat seal the open pouches. These small samples have an oxygen absorber capsule in the bag - whereas the commercial 1 Kg Bags have an oxygen absorbing film separating the ACTIVA from the oxygen absorber. I only mention this to make you aware if you use the entire 100g sample at one time, you must be aware not to pour the oxygen capsule into your vessel of the substrate (beef, fish, pork, etc….)." Edited to add more content

Jean-Francois - most circulators have an 'auto-tune' function - you just have to read the manual to find out how to initiate it. Once you run the auto-tune (the process takes about an hour, usually), the circulator will set the P, I and D values, along with some other values, into memory that work best for the situation it was tuned with. These values tell the heater how much power and how fast to react to any changes in the system - like adding a cold piece of chicken. Changing anything, liek the water volume, insulation of the vessel, covered vs uncovered, etc. will necessitate changing these values since it will affect how fast the volume of water heats and cools. For instance, let's say you have a heavily insulated vessel that is covered to minimize evaporation... well, evaporation is a cooling process, so the less water that evaporates, the less heat the system needs to keep it at the same temperature. If you take the cover off, you get more evaporation, more cooling, hence the heater has to run with more power to keep the temperature of the system stable. I guess the bottom line is to read the manual and find out how to turn on the auto-tune function with your circulator. If, for some reason, yours doesn't have an autotune, then I suggest reading a bit about how to set the PID values and play around with it to get it to work properly. There's tons of information on the internet and I think somewhere in this thread about how to tune your PID system. Maybe you want to try a search in this thread for "autotune" or "tune" or something..... Hope this helps...

The issue is the effect of time on the tuning parameters of the controller. When I put my 1KW circulator in the regular 10 liter bath, it responds quickly in a 0.4 degree F range. When I mount it in a large poly cooler (~50 liters) it is much slower and reset functions cause greater over and under shoot. There is no problem heating a million liter bath, if your insulation is adequate. Paul ← Paul - yes, of course the same 1KW of power will take much longer to heat 5X the volume of water, and that mass of water will take much longer to cool - so it's slower to respond in general. However, if tuned properly, your circulator should not overshoot or undershoot much more than normal. Do you autotune it each time you change bath sizes? In theory, every time a parameter changes, (i.e. the bath size changes, or you add insulation to the bath, or you decide to cover it when it was tuned uncovered, etc., ) you should re-tune your circulator parameters, otherwise, it will use the same parameters for all situations, which is not a good fit. Or, if you constantly alternate between a couple of situations, you should autotune each and copy down the settings. That way, when you change situations, you can just enter in the new settings as opposed to running a lengthy autotune every time.

Time is mostly dependent on thickness of the package... if you look in the first 10 pages or so of the main Sous Vide page, there is a chart that correlates time to thickness. Also, you can see Douglas Baldwin's website for that info also... you can find his site with a google search for his name and sous vide. Just make sure the package isn't thicker than 4 inches - because it takes so long for the inside to come up to temperature that it wouldn't be safe. Personally, I like veal loin on the medium rare side - so I would SV it at like 128F to 130F... or so... but if you have eggs in your meatball mixture, you may want to cook it at 131F for at least 89 minutes after the time it reaches full temp in the center so that you get rid of any salmonella/listeria that may be lurking around...

hmmm.. I have no problems with ziplock bags leaking.. just don't use the zipper ones.. the ones with the double seal work great... It's actually pretty easy to get all the air out - just dip the open bag in a big pot of water and the water pushes the extra air out... close the seal while the water is up to the top of the bag. I used to use a Food Saver for everything, but now I never use it - I'm on a ziplock only diet... so far I find it works great - dare I say better than the food saver.. no problems with liquids in the bags, etc... actually, I still use the food saver for high temp stuff - because I'm not 100% on the plastic leachingness of the ziplocks at higher temps.. I've recently emailed SC Johnson about this - I'm curious about their response - I'm assuming it'll be a bunch of CYA-type stuff - like "they aren't intended for that type of service".... we'll see... I'll post something if I hear anything interesting.

Very interesting... I could be completely off-base, but it seems like the high vacuum could be boiling the osmatic fluid in the muscle cells, rupturing the cell wall... during cooking, some liquid is escaping the cell, moistening the meat, but making it dry inside... so, to the tongue it tastes dry and mushy.... I wonder what the test results would be if comparing a zip-lock bag with the air squeezed out? Many restaurants in NYC previously approved to do SV are now running into problems where some inspectors will not allow them to use their vacuum machines... in these cases, it's common for them to use zip-lock bags instead... I know one chef who is so happy with the zip-lock bags that even if he was allowed to use his vacuum machine, he may stick with the zip-locks... the only problem is the added cost...

What have you found to be the best temps for them?

I also usually puree the whole can upon opening, and then I put in a tupperware type container and freeze... it defrosts really quickly and refreezes great... I put a couple tablespoons of the puree in a bag with a trimmed pork tenderloin, vac and seal, and let marinate overnight or about 24 hours... then into a 58.3C waterbath for about an hour or so.... remove from bag and torch while basting with the bag juices.. serve with a gastrique... Or sometimes we do buffalo burgers with ground buffalo - since I don't have an outdoor grill, I'll smoke them for about 10 min., then grill until rare... top with sliced avocado and chipotle puree... Also agree with the above - chipotle aioli rocks....

I agree - even 10-12 minutes in the smoker results in a very smoky end result... Recently I did a BBQ chicken... first I simmered skin on chicken parts in water for a few minutes to render some of the fat under the skin, then into an ice water bath to stop cooking.... dry then rub with Klink's dry rub... smoked over Hickory wood in my stovetop smoker for about 15 minutes, then into the bag and 60C water bath for about 1.5 hours - to make sure it was fully pasteurized... then it was hit with the propane torch until nice and crusty... came out juicy, delicious, and oh so smoky, with a good char on the outside....

There are some who might tell you that sourdough-like flavor has no place in pizza dough. In my comparing UPN to Keste (admittedly, not at the same time nor even in the same day), I think the ingredients that Keste is using to top its pies are just as high-quality as the ingredients being used at UPN. Without the attitude and at a more gently price point. ← Well, there's definitely place for the argument that the sourdough quality doesn't belong in a pizza... with that being said, we thought it made for a more complex, interesting flavor - whether or not it "should" be there... I'm not saying Keste's ingredients aren't first-rate... I was just saying that they were remarkably different to UPN - remarkably meaning noticeably - especially when you hvae them back to back. I also didn't find the attitude that so many people complain about with UPN. In fact, we walked away saying how nice and pleasant everyone was. Nothing over the top, but the attitude never would have occurred to me if I hadn't heard about it prior to the visit. Keste's service and attitude is very nice also - maybe more so... the manager (owner?) is constantly walking around making sure everything is ok.. and chatting with patrons, especially the Italian ones... In any case, I'm splitting hairs a bit - both make a fine pizza... my personal preference leans towards UPN... but overall, I would go back to Keste for the better atmosphere and pricing... hearing about the no byo is a little disappointing - especially since now there is no wine option whatsoever... I love corkage restaurants (even ones with their own wine list), but I don't know if I'd want to go to dinner with no option of having some wine. I may wait to go back there until they have their license...

A few weeks ago, my wife and I did a comparison between the two.... It started as a joke - about a month ago we went to Keste for the first time and we were very impressed.... a couple weeks later, we went to UPN.... at the time we were blown away by UPN - we thought it was on another level than Keste (not slighting Keste which is excellent).... so midway through our meal at UPN, we joked about going to Keste immediately following and have a margarita taste test.... so the more we joked about it, the more we liked the idea.... Our results: We thought the crust at UPN definitely had a more complex, almost sourdough like flavor, and was overall tastier than Keste... But, it's also almost twice the price, and, as of a few weeks ago, you could bring your own wine to Keste with no corkage fee... We decided that we enjoyed the UPN margarita pizza better than the Keste version, hands down.... I also enjoyed my filetti very much at UNP... but we also decided that we will still go to Keste because it's such a good value, and comparison aside, makes an excellent pizza. I think comparing the two is sort of like comparing diamonds - sure some are nicer than others, but at the end of the day, they're still both diamonds... and the prices - our meal at Keste with a toscana salad ($8), margarita ($12), salsiccia pizza ($18) and a bottle of sparkling water ($4) was $42 plus tax/tip... a bottle of Dolcetto we brought from home - probably about $15-18... so total about $70.... UPN (for two pizzas ($21 each), bottle of wine ($39) and a bottle of sparkling water ($8)) was about $100, cash only. I don't know if I answered your question tupac.... All in all, to me UPN is all about the ingredients - awesome dough, cheese, tomatoes, and that's basically it... Keste's dough is good, but not as complex, the tomatoes are good (but seemed a bit sweet to me) and cheese is good... but all in all, thought UPN was a higher quality pie... but Keste has much more variety, plus they have salads and interesting looking appetizers... not to mention the corkage deal...

I know that you can veal neck bones from Fresh Direct for like $2 per pound... I keep saying that I need to go to Ottomanelli to see what they charge, but haven't made it there... I'm not a regular there, but they know me by face... I'll be curious to hear what you found...

I was experimenting with vegetables at 185 F. for an hour. On some, I felt the package until there was give. I think the carrots went 90 min. I did potatoes, carrots, broccoli, and whole mushrooms. Frankly, I was not impressed with the results. EXCEPT for the mushrooms. They came out rich flavored and great. A lot of potential for various finishing techniques - or none. The potatoes were cut in a 1/4" dice and tasted good, but compared to what versatility you can get with potato preparations, no big deal. Carrots were done, but not impressive. Broccoli yuch. I am very willing to hear results from others that might give more interesting veggies. Stu ← I experimented with asparagus last night... I got really nice thick ones that I peeled, seasoned then in the bag with a couple pats of butter... Into the bath at 150F (65.6C) for about 8 minutes (as per instructions from discussions MUCH earlier in this thread).. then shocked in ice water and kept refrigerated until ready to serve... reheated in 128F (53.3C) bath used for cooking lamb... The results - my wife loved them... I also enjoyed them... they had the texture of being "cooked" but still had a crispness to them... if you like your asaparagus on the soft side, this may not be the way to go... they also had a really fresh taste - more so than with asparagus that I do normally...

Bringing this topic back up - I have a question that was never asked/answered - and I can't find it in McGee either... once the fish has been cured, how long will it last in the refrigerator? Thanks!

Every once in a while I'll do an orzo dish in the vain as yours, Chris... I sautee asparagus and artichokes separately... Then I'll make a simple sauce of olive oil, chili flakes, brunoise preserved lemon (preserved only in salt), lots of rough chopped garlic that has been browned in the oil, sliced shallots, capers (if I feel like it)... hit it with some white wine for acidity and a little lemon juice... At the very end, I'll sometimes throw in some mint chiffonade - goes great with the chilis!!

My understanding of botulism was similar - that you need a long time in a zero oxygen enviroment for it to grow and produce toxins... the FDA shows in the food code how long you can keep pasteurized ROP products at different temperatures.... From what I understand, if you do cook-chill, you can keep stuff at refrigerator temps (34F) or lower for a max. of 30 days (according to 3-502-12D(2)(e)(i)) So, theoretically, you can cook your burger to 55C for a time long enough to pasteurize depending on thickness, and then chill them down and refrigerate for a month - then just take out and sear on the grill to bring back to temp whenever you're ready... If you want to cook at lower temp. (for a really rare burger), I don't see why you couldn't do it, just so long as your burger wasn't 4" thick so that it would sit in the danger zone for too long.... then eat right away - can't store in the refrig. since it's not pasteurized.... Am I reading this correctly? Someone please correct me if I'm misunderstanding this....

I've actually been thinking about doing something similar, along the lines of the SV burgers.... someone PLEASE let me know if this is a little crazy, or just not practical... Anyway, I've been thinking about doing a bolognese sauce and, separately, meatballs by SV at say 55 or 60C for long time (i.e. 24 hours, ,etc)... or what about either 67 or 83C for 8 hours or so?? I gather that a really good bolognese needs to simmer for a long time to get a really great mouthfeel.. so I figured why not do the same thing you'd do with tenderizing a chuck steak, but to ground meat? Similarly with meatballs - I've had way too many meatballs made the conventional way where the meat was gray and really tight... either from simmering too hard, or not long enough... I figured, even if the connective tissue int eh meat is ground up, it's still there... if you cook it long enough to convert it to gelatin, wouldn't that make a melt-in-your-mouth product??? Any thoughts???

Fascinating!!! What cut of meat did you use for the mince?

If you're bringing things up to temperature in a water bath, then you can use the tables that nathanm supplied somewhere around page 7 of this thread, or use Douglas Baldwin's charts on his website... that will give you the proper times to get up to temp... Once you're at temp and you want to keep it there, I can't think of a reason the incubator couldn't be used.... One way to monitor internal temperature is using a hypodermic or needle probe attached to an external thermometer. Put a square of closed cell foam weatherstripping tape on the outside of your bag where you want to insert the probe. Insert the probe through the tape, bag and into the center of where you want to measure... the tape will keep the bag from losing its vacuum. Then leave the probe in as it comes up to temp.. I believe you'll have to leave the probe in until your cooking is finished becasue I believe that once you remove the probe, you'll lose yoru vacuum.. but I'm not sure about that... others here will know better... The FDA considers the interior of whole intact beef muscle (like a prime rib roast) to be sterile and free from pathogens... So, if you blow torch the exterior sufficiently to kill all surface pathogens, you are safe to hold it at lower temperatures for longer periods of time...

I'm a little concerned about your setup... not to say that it can't hold a consistent temperature - but that's the least of the concerns... Heat transfer in circulated water is 100X better than in still air.... Still air is a really bad conductor of heat - so while it may be a rock solid 130 degrees in the chamber, that heat is not getting into your meat very efficiently. I think the true way to test how well your setup works is to get a hypodermic probe thermocouple and insert it into the center of the meat with some weatherstripping closed cell foam tape...run the thermocouple to an external thermometer and watch the temperature of the center of the meat as you start from cold... You want to make sure it doesn't take more than 4 hours or so (that's the upper limit of time) to get from cold to target temperature, or at least out of the danger zone.. this time will vary with the thickness of your package/if there are bones, etc. - so you should do this a few times with varied items to make sure your setup is safe...

The other day, my wife saw a van parked in our neighborhood... when she inquired, they gave her their card - it was "Mike & Son sharpening service"... it seems like they sharpen knives, scissors, or whatever needs sharpening... I gather you can call them, they come to your apartment, and then they sharpen your knives in their van while you wait. In the van it seems like they have all kinds of motorized sharpening equipment and tools... Has anyone heard of/used these guys? What were your thoughts?? I'm a little scared of letting someone unknown sharpen my babies... and while my hand sharpening is ok (I'm still debating getting an EdgePro) - I don't get to sharpen as often as I'd like... Thanks!

How did the shrimp and scallops come out at 59C for 2 hours?

Some Whole Foods have them, some don't. I also see them frequently at Korean and Japanese markets (look for "Maitaki"). ← sorry should have mentioned I just checked the one on houston. Any sugeestions for korean/japanese places? I will stop by sunshine mart and .. the other one by there near coopers sq. tomorrow on my way to the union sq. whole foods. ← I commonly see Maitake in the Whole Foods at Union Sq... they're prepackaged and are usually of decent quality. The same prepackaged ones are usually available at the Sunrise Mart in the East Village..

I do flank steak at 131F for 24 hours every 3-4 weeks... comes out great every time... I also second the idea that a little smoke goes a long way - I've done smoked duck breast - smoked for about 30 min. then into the 131 water bath for a while (past pasteurization times) then into the ice bath then refrig... sliced and served room temp, comes out really good... very nice smoke flavor, and perfectly cooked...