tan319

I don't think any of your desserts sound or have sounded boring. I'm running my berry shortcake again tonight as well as the fennel pollen/choc cake one.

Have you tasted any of Steves and chefettes work? Not that I have any doubts that I would enjoy them, and that they're solid, but what would you do if you tasted that apple dessert and gagged? Not because it was bad but because it was so different from what you usually have, enjoy, etc. Bios, all that, who says these people can't walk and run? you said... "Sometimes I want to ask back to the chefs in the magazine, "did you read your own dessert?" "would you really shell out good hard earned money on something THAT questionable?", "what's your goal here?". Damn, that's tough. I guess you might not dig the EVOO sorbet of Steves then. What's the goal then...? To try out an idea, maybe something you've seen somewhere that you made and thought it was pretty good, why not see it it can sell? Maybe the underlying point of that article, and the others that are written about this newer stuff, is that pastry chefs are cooking. Dessert cuisine, all that stuff. Why laugh about the least appreciated stuff? Do you really feel like you can never go out on a limb and try something new? I know you work in a different kind of pastry environ, but in a restaurant, pastry chefs do specials, maybe 2 specials on a weekend, just like the chef, and sometimes we want to try something out that might push the envelope but hell, why not? I remember when I was in NY on a visit and I had this great chocolate tasting plate, and the chef sent me out a concord grape soup with a buttermilk sorbet, and I thought is was pretty drab, but it gave me some ideas and it was a noble try on his part. To me. For all I know, everyone else loved it! I look at my work like a person, a common person, who loves food, because I do love food. And I think any good pastry chef, be it Payard or Mason, looks at food in that way. Sometimes, wouldn't it be better to just enjoy what we do and absorb as much as we can about it without personalising everything, ie:how it affects us in the marketplace, how many people aren't eating dessert, etc.? I'm coming to the conclusion that people in general, not everyone but always a few, are simply hard to please. Boring, pissed off, never like a damn thing people. They never have a dessert, they're never good enough, whatever... What could be good enough for those people? A Devil Dog? A ring Ding? Snickers? A Nemos cake? I can't worry about that stuff anymore. Yes, I'll get pissed off still every once in awhile about sales. Someone will annoy me when they bitch about the construction of my dessert . But that's their tuff luck. I've got my head down, working my ass off, in two places, and I'm gonna do my best, but fuck'em, I'm not going to let them worry my ass off anymore, I'll give what I think they want, what I feel like making, and I'm going to throw a few curveball's every so often, just to make sure they haven't fallen asleep.

sorry, I don't believe there were any pix. I agree with you, CompassRose, I would think that the person who came up with that dessert could probably make a mean traditional apple pie also... It's too bad that the term "foam" has so many unpleasant connotations to many people, mainly because of the mainstream culinary conservatives who get all riled up about the El Bulli crew, amongst other practitioners of new ideas. When I look at the recipe for that cinnamon foam, I think of mousse that is delivered to the plate via a gas charged whipper/siphon.

Sorry to mislead you, What I was referring to was a dessert chefette did for an event where I believe she featured her apple pie alamode, that is, a deconstructed one, and I would file it under a "daring dessert", mainly because chefette totally took it apart and put it back together again. It's not what I would call traditional besides the flavors, and they've been tweaked a bit too. My point was, if you didn't know the person, or whatever, would you think this recipe would indicate someone was hiding behind a radicalization of a traditional dessert because they couldn't make the typical one? If you held tradition as an absolute virtue, would you say this was a desecration of the dessert that influenced it? Here's her recipe from a previous eG thread... Cheese Custard 1 pint heavy cream Pinch salt 6 large egg yolks 2.5 oz cheddar cheese (grated) 2 oz cream cheese (soft) - Boil cream with salt and temper yolks then stir over heat 8 seconds - Remove from heat, strain, and pour over the cheeses - Stir to melt or use an immersion blender to ensure smooth custard - Portion into glasses and chill several hours to set Lemon Vanilla Marmalade 2 large lemons 240g sugar 500g water 1 vanilla bean - Using a peeler, peel strips of lemon zest - Blanch the zest in boiling water 3 times - Combine sugar and 500g water and bring to a boil add zest and vanilla bean (scraped) and simmer for an hour - Cover and allow the zest to age several days - Finely dice the zest and remove the vanilla bean pod Cinnamon Foam 5-7 sticks cinnamon 150g sugar 30g corn syrup 400g water 2 sheets gelatin 75 g heavy cream - Place the sugar in a medium saucepan with the corn syrup and 50g of the water. DO NOT stir it - Cover pan until the sugar has melted and mixture is boiling. Uncover and continue cooking until sugar is light amber in color - Toss in the cinnamon sticks and continue cooking for another minute or two then add the remaining water - Return to boil, cover and let steep 8 hours then strain to remove cinnamon sticks - Measure out 325g of the cinnamon jus - Bloom the gelatin in cold water while warming the cream and melt the gelatin in the warm cream before stirring into the cinnamon jus - Pour into Isi profi whipper with 2 charges and chill 2 hours before using Breton Short crust 4 large egg yolks 160g sugar 160g salted butter 225g AP Flour 15g Baking Powder - Soften butter in mixing bowl using paddle - Add, sugar and then yolks until well combined - Combine flour and baking powder and stir into the butter/egg/sugar mixture using the paddle - Roll out on half sheet tray between parchment - Chill several hours and bake 15 minutes at 375 until golden - Allow to cool and cut unto cubes Apple Compote 4 Granny Smith apples (peeled, cored, chopped) Pinch salt 30g Butter 50-60g Light brown sugar - Melt butter in hot sauté pan and then toss in apples and salt (do this in more than one batch if necessary) - Sauté several minutes tossing or stirring until apples are tender then sprinkle and toss with brown sugar Assembly · Top the set custard with a portion of the Breton short crust cubes · Carefully spoon approximately 1 teaspoon of the marmalade into each glass so that it is divided into two or three areas · Scoop a portion of the warm apple compote into each glass · Just before serving top each portion with a cloud of Cinnamon Foam * The marmalade can be done several days in advance and is better if it ages. It will keep well if covered and refrigerated for several weeks * The cinnamon jus can also be done in advance and held in the refrigerator several days before adding the cream and gelatin. An alternative to the cinnamon foam is to reduce the water to 250g and use it as a sauce or flavoring for whipped cream * The short crust can be made in advance and kept wrapped several days or frozen * The apples may be made in advance and held in the refrigerator and re-warmed prior to serving

This was because the translators (two of them - one who translated the recipes and the other the rest of the CD-ROM and the book) were instructed to use metric for the BE version and imperial for the US version. These instructions were issued by the translation agency that coordinated the various foreign language versions (French, German, Italian and Japanese). I know this because I was the translator of the book and the rest of the CD-ROM. And I have to say, it was one of the most absorbing pieces of translation I have ever done... Well, all I can say is THANK YOU!!! It's so incredibly well done, outstanding and awesome. Once I got on the UK version I was very, very happy. The book is such a joy to read and absorb. Any chance you guys are going to ever do a translation of Albertos 'Los Postres de El Bulli? Thanks again for the great job.

I first saw avocado in a dessert in Andrew Maclauchlans 'Tropical Desserts' book. That was published in '97. To comment on a couple of things here, I agree that the tone (and the typos) were a bit strange in AS's article, and it surprised me. But, I don't remember the article stating that any of the chefs were being noted as the best either. By underestimating the customer I simply mean that a lot of people aren't going to have a heart attack if they get presented with something different. There are bad examples of all kinds of food everywhere in restaurants. I can't figure out why almost everytime something outside the realm of typical, traditional,albeit great dessert offerings get's mentioned, you, Wendy, think someone has something to hide? Why is doing something different indicate boredom with the tried and true? I don't understand why people can't have both without being suspected of not having the chops. All the Avant Garde'ist's if you want to call them that, love simple, homeish food, that's what most of them talk about in articles,etc. But that's not necessarily what they want to cook everyday for their clientele. Going back awhile here, was chefette desecrating apple pie with cheese when she did her dessert item for the IMHS? She could surely have just done her absolute all time best version of a great apple pie right? I've got a part time gig right now in a French bakery operation ( I still have my other gig too) and I'm jazzed to be a part of that kind of traditional pastry prep and execution and what's more, I'm sure it will give me food for thought, it will influence what I will be doing in my own desserts in the future. But, when you work in a restaurant enviornment, you are (hopefully) being constantly exposed to chefs ideas, you'[re sharing ideas about food that you've read about, eaten, etc. and that is going to spill over into what you do, more then likely.

I add a bit of butter at a time to the G.C, maybe you have a minimum amt of butter, check the mix by compressing a bit to see it is starting to hold. Can't remember where you're located but sometime crumbs will be dryer then others. Also, if you end up with too much wet, you can add more crumbs? Went thru my own trip at the bakery the other day with the crust for the Key Lime. You're spot on about sides 1st too.

I knew we would get to some of this stuff... I agree that when you start off reading the article, it actually reads a bit weirder then Ms. Strongs usual style, as she usually is straight out of the gate excited as hell about any kind of food that excites her. Not that she wasn't excited, it just had a bit of a caveat vibe to it. I would encourage any of you to check out her site and read some of her articles, reviews and stuff, you'll see what I mean. Steve, I think you would get what I mean, and see that her support is there and she isn't writing about those 'weird & wacky pastry chefs and their weird desserts'. Instead, she would seem to be saying there's a lot more out there then creme brulee and flourless chocolate cakes, try it, you might like it. I think Cory makes a good point, not only can most of these chefs do a great apple tart, more then likely, there is probably some version of it on their menu. If you go to some of these chefs websites, you would see things that aren't so far out that one wouldn;t want to try it. Masons Beet root cake with chocolate sorbet, beet caramel, etc., for instance. Click on this link, look at some of the descriptions and click on the pix and tell me it's that far out? http://www.wd-50.com/menu2.html Or this menu from AIX, in NYC, where Jehinger Metha is the PC http://www.aixnyc.com/desserts.shtml If you just want to do one thing, one style, only taste one style more or less, anythings far out. A week or two ago I ran my chocolate molluex/ coffee/fennel pollen creme special.with cinnamon mint ice cream & chocolate sorbet., etc.. For Mothers Day I ran an orange vanilla accented short cake with fresh berries, vanilla mascarpone cream and a chambord/mixed berry sauce. People liked them equally well, of course the shortcake on Mothers Day was a winner, that's why I did it, but I'm going to explore these avenues, just like these guys do, because I think we're all on the same page. Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't, goes a popular (candy?) commercial?, and that is how I feel sometimes. Have a solid menu that people can deal with hopefully, and throw something that you think is really good, maybe different, really different perhaps, and sometimes you can be surprised. I've done these Cabrales(Spanish Blue cheese)/chocolate truffles for my restaurant to hand out at these different promo events, ABQ indie restaurant ASSC. things that are probably a waste of time, 550, 600 of these suckers and everybody ends up raving about them!!! We're the hit out of most everyone else out there doing these events. Come back for seconds. When they first hear what they are, sure, they're nervous. When they taste them, they have an orgasm. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE PUBLIC!! People do it all the time, be it in music, food, whatever, and they just put off the big bang ...or at least deprive some people of something good they would have never had a chance to try. Our own fears can only fuck us over.

I'm with you, Cory

And? What do you think? Like? Dislike? Thanks for posting

True, but sometimes the idea of a Carrot Lime ravioli could make people nervous. I think it only goes to show you that if you work in a restaurant, probably a forward thinking one, as a pastry chef, you're going to end up thinking about all of those herbs, spices like cumin that are always around. Re: the flower dessert, it reminds me of this Spanish pastry chef, Jordi Rock of 'Cellar de Can Rock', who did a series of desserts based on the aroma notes of perfumes. Here's a link to one of them, 'Miracle' by Lancome! http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...DUTF-8%26sa%3Dn

Andrea Strong wrote a pretty cool article in Sundays New York Post, featuring desserts that dare to be different. http://www.nypost.com/food/20497.htm Some of the usual suspects (Sam Mason, Pichet Ong, Jehinger Metha) but some new faces too. Hope you enjoy it. BTW, I'm a big fan of Andreastrong.com, she writes with enthusiasm, love and humour, and she gives a lot of time to the sweeter side of things and the pastry chefs who create them, god bless her.

Hey, good on ya! I just started doing part time work in a French Bakery operation here, in addition to my regular pastry chef gig, and it's ass busting work, huh? I worked there for maybe a month and a half back in early 2001, my first gig in ABQ, before I got my PC gig and ,suffice to say, this time I'm a bit better prepared. Everything I make dough wise = about 100# all together, crossiant dough, quiche dough, you get the picture. Making tons of Danish, tart shells,totally different to my regular gig, whichis fine. Bit of a challenge , cool French guys, but exacting, of course. Best of luck to you, Jeniac, nice to see you again!

immersion blender is one of those stick blenders, Braun, Krups, Cusineart make them.

As Lesley C. pointed out, food stylists are usually heavily involved with photographers on shoots for books. So, you might be trying to achieve a look that could be impossible, unless you invest in some shellac or spray's, for instance. Btw, I can see you taking a shot at me, but Steve?

There you go, I always forget about that book Nice one...

I didn't want to say this in my earlier post but, something isn't getting thru, and I don't think it's your failing Steve, or anyone elses who has volunteered their considerable knowledge here. Tom, you were talking about a specific technique and that's why everyone said acetate. I think Steve has cleared things up on the other ways. I don't want to seem mean, God knows that me, Sinclair, a myriad of others come in and ask stuff all of the time. Speaking for myself, most of the time I've googled and searched many places before I do. That said, I do trust the people who have the backup, etc., to know what they're talking about. Don't mean to seem surly, it just seemed with that latest Fleming thing, it was almost like you were putting people on. PLEASE don't go and say "well, maybe I won't come anymore" like the chocolate tutor did, that's not what I mean. You seem to be so into chocolate, maybe check your scene out and see if there's any schools offering course's or if there's a chocolate store that is even doing the most rudimentary stuff so you can get your feet wet, so to speak. If you have some money burning a hole in your pocket, get a copy of Bau's book, it's pretty detailed in all things chocolate, especially bon bons. Go to the JB prince website( JBPrince.com) and click on the books in the pastry section, check ot the chocolate supplies(acetate, candy molds, etc.) Get one of the serious(and unfortunately expensive) books on chocolate work, forget about the cheap cookbooks, get something that will really give you the info you crave. Good Luck to you.

When I add butter to something like this, 1st I would whisk it in and the use an immersion blender to emulsify it, or just immersion blend in the 1st pace. Do it with the mix hot and the butter very cold. Not knowing what your base is like, ing. wise, it's kind of hard to figure out too. also, are you using a lot of butter? Finaaly, in Butter pecan I/C, or in the Pecan Praline ice cream I make, I use salted butter most of the time, or definately season my mix with salt after I add the butter. It makes the flavour come up. Good Luck!

A candy, bon bon or what? I don't think Steve, chefette, Neil or anyone else has been pulling your leg, can you explain? And what kind of coverture are you using?

Stressed is desserts spelled backwards, ain't that the truth! At first reading this, the beginning, I thought you were a server. Servers hold a special place in my heart right now, because after two shared meetings with them, my chef and I both, pointing out some important things to them, like they aren't selling enough product, or speading product out to include some things we need to sell, they still sucked all weekend! I swear to God, if I could , I would fire 90 % of the staff, take the two good ones, pay them a salary to hire and train a decent crew and get on with it. I think of this story a guy who worked for Ken Oringer at Clio in Boston told me, he said when the servers started punking out and not selling specials, etc., Ken would tell them simply, that if they couldn't sell his food, then to get the fuck out of his restaurant! I know this thread has denigrated a bit from it's original intentions, it came close to that whole chef won't serve the food any differently then it is on the menu thing that went on last year for awhile here, but I have to get this off my chest. I think a good portion of customers have to be alienated by these dimwitts who are servers by name, shitheads by actions. I brought up to my chef before the meeting , when he was seeking input on topics, etc., that on the weekends when I do service, I see all the servers clogging up the expiditing station, and what's more, they're complaining about what shitty tables they have! We , the chefs, cooks, work the BOH mainly because we can't stand the public at large, we like our solitude, the noises our machines, stoves, food makes when it's cooking, so we gave up earning the big bucks like servers make but, we do take our job of feeding people seriously, and when the FOH idiots screw everything up by forgetting shit, not getting it right in the 1st place, only being able to sell salmon and NYStrips, they deserve to get knocked out, sorry if that's shitty but it's the GD truth! My chef will 86 steaks if that's all they're selling, tell them to sell something else, too bad. My sorry ass has to just sweat that one of these sad sacks can actually sell something at all. I saw my dessert report today, it was so sad, i wanted to get one of these guys to eat it, either that or hook a hose up to my car window from my exhaust and just forget about it. At that meeting , I explained to them that behind wine, dessert has the largest profits in the whole place, if they seel them, they make money for everyone, but they must be deaf, 'cause they sure didn't deliver. On saturday night, when I ran my choc,fennel pollen, coffee dessert ( see the abstraction thread, 5/2/04), one guy sold all of em, of course, because he's the best one...one after another. Sorry, know we've been thru this before but really, c'mon people... As far as wedding cakes go, you have my deepest sympathies. They will pay you, correct? People try to get me to do them, I just say no! Right now, there a big storm brewing, because someone is trying to rope me into something, it's ridiculous... Today has been one of those days when you ask yourself,"WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!!!??? Nothing much decent about it today;.

Sorry to confuse, have seen it referred to as PVC in some of my Spanish pastry books.

I think acetate is the same thing as PVC, the clear stuff you get at art supply stores?

Mel, I was wondering if you would be willing to share with us what resources you used to come up with your business plan? I'm just starting to google this, came up with this so far... http://www.ntia.doc.gov/opadhome/mtdpweb/busplano.htm Just for an example that is. If I was going to endeavor to try something on my own, I want investors. It's the only way I could do it. If you get a chance out of your surely insane schedule, I would love to know anything you would care to share. Thank you!

Loved the article, a lot of fun. Slowly gaining steam...

Well, after reading the'gun and knowing it's one side's story, I have to say I dislike Chodowrow more then ever. Here you have a guy who strolls in while the chef is is consulting for him, hears about this reality show and want's in on the action. Screws up on a location and then rushes into another, and that's documented on tape, that Rocco wants more time to prepare for the opening. Bragging that he gave Rocco a better deal then Ducasse, that's so screwed up. This guy has managed to screw two great chefs. Having worked for a pretty well known chef in NYC,, who has had numerous books out and was working on one when we opened one of his new concepts, these kinds of chefs aren't there every minute of the day, cooking with the guys, cooking on the line at night, etc. They're there during the opening, making sure everything is right, of course we had a bit more time before we went public, but not every minute even then. After the NYTimes review, the pressure goes down a bit and they can concentrate on their other projects, publicity, events they do which often takes them out of town and no one freaks out, because there's a crew that this guy has delegated duties too, and if someone is screwing up, they're out on their ass. It seems to me that what's going on in the show concerning Rocco promoting his book alone, is pretty in line with what I experienced, minus the wackiness. The chef is going to come in, if he's in town, 4 days a week, maybe more, sometimes to expedite for the rush, maybe to work on some new dishes in the late morning, early afternoon, talk with his guys, etc. He's not going to be there all day and night. Friday and Saturday night, maybe Thursday too, he's going to be there unless he's on biz out of town. Is Bobby Flay in Bolo or Mesa Grill every night? Doubtful. As far as Rocco's character is concerned, maybe he just feels more relaxed around his "other" joint, has Mama around, feels looser. Having known a few people who worked at Union Pacific, I've never gotten the idea he was real relaxed there. Anything but. Super on it, mad attention to detail, not real tolerant of screwups. All of these chefs, short, fat, thin, or tall, attract women like flies. Rocco, at least until this season, would seem to have all the necessary attributes. I'm still gobsmacked that he would risk everything he worked for to establish himself as a chef, put his cred on the line like he has, for a TV show, but I still respect him as a chef.