tan319

WAIT!!! Hang on a minute! Whos's comparing themselves to the PA&D 10 best issue??? I've been thinking on & off about going back to school for over a year and especially since I got back from Miami. I have to go to work now, I'll pick this up later, but please, no more of that stuff. I feel great about my abilities as they stand, never hurts to try to get better. Probably the biggest thing bothering me at the moment is not being in a place where I can work on my skills like the gig I had that got closed on me at the end of last year. That was my "personal" school, and it was working great for me. Great enough for me to work another job to make a better salary overall, just because of that advantage it offered me. Now I'm not in that type of place. Miami wasn't going to provide that either, just to answer that question in advance. Undervaluing myself? No. I could just have said "NO" to my most recent employment situation but that WOULD have been unrealistic. One has to work somewhere.

First off, what is an ROI? Secondly, yes, I am thinking of relocating. If I continue to work for someone else, it will be in another area, probably Las Vegas, since it's a union town and pay & benefits are much better as a rule. I would say theres no one in my area doing what I do except for maybe one person whos in a hotel somewhere, doing ice sculptures and showpiece chocolate work. Economic wall... meaning what do employers pay? If so, employers get away with as little as they can. I want to make 35k a year minimum. To start. With benefits preferably but that's unrealistic working for most indies. Basically I see the investment as enhancing my ability to walk in someplace that's doing more involved work, say, the Bellagio, for instance, and not feel out of place, to merely to feel in the ballpark. That's not to say anybody walks out of any school ready to gun down the French guy who's 28 and already been doing it for 12 or 13 years, that's pretty ridiculous. If I went into someplace and started out making 35K it would take about 5 years to pay back the investment, at the most, it would seem. I don't think I'll be pushing up the daisies by then. I would be interested in hearing about better ways to invest 17.5k. I would also be interested in cutting to the chase... There are many, I'm sometimes one of them, who think that school is overrated, you learn more on the job, etc. This is such a specialized course, and so short, that maybe those rules don't apply as much here. And of course, the Notter courses are up to two weeks at length? So, if I've answered those questions better, maybe we could get to the pros & cons?

School has been on my mind lately. When nightscotsman, a fellow host of the P&B forum here on the 'gullet graduated from the FPS (http://home.earthlink.net/~neilr/pastryschool/), I was very impressed with the quality of his work and then when he landed a job at the Bellagio Hotel in Las Vegas, specifically the pastry department, under Executive Pastry Chef Jean Philippe Maury it impressed me even more. So it was with great interest I read the article in the new issue of PA&D magazine. At the moment I find myself caught between the proverbial 'Rock & a Hard Place'. When I got into cooking, attending a nine month course right outside of D.C. at 'L'Academie de Cuisine', I did a basic cooking course, two actually. 'Theory and Technique', which is exactly that, and 'Practique', the practical useage of what you learned in the T & T class, hands on cooking. I was pretty sure I wanted to work in pastry but thought being grounded in everything would be helpful ( it has been, immensely) and also, there was no "short" course in pastry (2 year minimum) and the cost was prohibitive, no time for that kind of commitment, etc. I graduated, got an apprenticeship at a highly rated yet "homey" French Place outside of D.C., and began working in food on and off for the next few years, including a stint in a Manhattan restaurant where I learned a huge amount and fell in love with actually making plated desserts like I was eating in some of the nations best restaurants. Cut to the present. I've been a pastry chef pretty much exclusively for the last 4 or 5 years now, garnered a bit of a reputation for my work here in my neck of the S.W. but have hit a wall in what I can achieve monetarily, benefits (LOL!) and feel like the 6 month course that FPS offers could "complete" me. I'm self taught, for the most part, I can temper chocolate, do some sugar work but not in the classical sense. Everything I've seen about FPS seems like that would be the place to go, unless I would choose to take shorter courses at Ewald Notters school. I feel like Notter would be good if I was already making the kind of money I want to be making, I know the instruction there is top notch. Notters seems like where you want to go to brush up or learn new techniques. 17.5k isn't cheap but if I could couple a diploma from the FPS with already having had previous experience in running my own pastry programs, it would seem like perhaps I could get into a place at a bit of a higher rate, not feel as inexperienced in the kind of garnishes I would probably be expected to produce in a place like Las Vegas, for instance, and maybe even be able to find backers easier if I choose to do my own thing and open a dessert place of my own. My main qualm is, is the state of pastry at the moment really as "hot" as that article states? Are pastry chefs really "more in demand then ever before", like Norman Love states in the article? My own experience's, by that I mean what I've personally observed, participated in, and even read here, don't totally back that up. But I'm willing to be proved wrong. What do you folks think? Have you gone to either one of these fine places or to other 'pastry-centric" schools, especially if you're already a working chef, and felt like you had an advantage in the kind of salary you were able to get offered or ask for? If you went to school, did you take advantage of any scholarships that are out there? I'm all ears ( eyes, actually). Talk to me...

can you post a link to the gastrovac, akwa? I know that Stephans is a SERIOUSLY expensive machine!

Yeah, the rubber sealer rings for any of those plexiglass "doors" or even the rubber ring that goes around the churner that locks in are a huge pain in the butt! You really need to have an extra piece for each and also ALWAYS wash and sanitize them yourself, otherwise you'll be spending 50 bucks here & there always. akwa, are you saying just get the slightly bigger but all metal (no plexiglass) batch freezer? To avoid the possibility of loss? Just to clarify...

Regarding the coffee liquer thing, you could just use some instant coffee grains, a good espresso one. I'm not sure what you mean about "egg smell" I wouldn't use any egg that smelled bad, right??? You can add the almond extract anywhere. Typically, when I make something like Tiramisu, I add the amaretto to the coffee/sugar solution I soak the cake with. Good Luck!

This sounds awesome, thanks for writing more about it. It's going to be purchased soon, I think it's exactly what I'm looking for. Plus, the Mulot book being cheap as an add on is an incentive. Those "crumbles" are fun to use. Also, I'm wondering if you had a scanner, could you scan a page from the book then throw it into Sherlock (if you have a 'mac) and translate it? For understanding a bi more about French ingredients, the Ducasse/Roberts 'Grand Livre ' desserts book helped me a lot thru it's extensive glossary of ingredients and such. I had the opportunity to "live" with the book for around 3 months. I'm trying to hold out for an English translation of it, as it's (along with the Paco Torreblancas book) probably the most expensive book I've ever wanted at about 225.00 bucks! The Conticini book will fill in nicely. Hope you get to make some stuff this weekend, the 'cocajou' and the pot de creme's get my vote

Hmmmm.... I don't see why you couldn't make one w/o eggs but you need to melt the gelatine after "blooming" it either in a microwave or in a pan over heat. Cool it to room temp or close to it and add to your mix. If it "specks" up, that is, your whipped cream gets lumpy with the gelatine, put your mix into a food processor ( cuisineart, robocoupe, etc.) or blender and smooth it out that way, it will still set up. As far as avoiding alcohol, you can just use coffee sweetened and soak your cake with it and if you can use it, an almond extract or essence would sub nicely for the amaretto. Unless that is forbidden? Can you get an alcohol free almond extract in Kuwait?

Opps, I missed your post, Steve, thanks for it. This sounds even better now, as I would love to have that Hermes 'Plasirs Sucre' book. And you have to love that Chronopost shipping!!! When I got the Ducasse 'Spoon' book, I flipped when that thing got here in 3 or 4 days, it was faster then Amazon here. Do you guys have the Mulot book too?

Thanks for posting about this,chefette and artisanbaker, I really appreciate it. chefette, Re: not making anything from it. Is it because the food (sweet) doesn't hit it for you or because his recipes are pretty involved? As in 8 different components, that type of thing? After I got that Thuries mag with that article on him, I would find myself picking thru recipes, trying out things that I found pertinent to things I was doing or just dying to try, like some of his tuile recipes, for instance. I'm just looking to wake up my "mojo", so to speak, for one thing

Wondering if anyone has seen or owns this book. Amazon France has a deal on it with Gerard Mulots book. http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/2501...4365179-1509865 Although I expect that there's as many savory recipes ( not a bad thing) in 'Tentations' as sweet, I love this guy and might just have to break down and order it. Talk to me! Thanks!!!

Can you ( any of you, that is) explain the vacuum method for ganache? Are we talking vacuum as in sous vide-ish vacuum or something altogether different? Thanks in advance!

Is there any chance that Donna (forgive me, forgot her last name) from Chick-A-Licous is the new pastry chef? The desserts ( as well as the rest of the meal) read awesome. Would love to know, Soba, when you get the info. Thanks!

It just hit me... Gordon Ramsey is going to become the Simon Cowell (American Idol) of cuisine

Who's the pastry chef at CRU now? If you get a chance, can you post about that part of your meal too? Very interested to hear what they're doing now. Thanks!

Talk to me!!! Do you mean coldelite is by carpigiani? If you could elaborate, kind sir Oh, BTW, you could sign me up for the suite, can I pay later???

The Pacojet is LESS expensive then a Carpagiani(SIC?) or a Taylor. A Taylor or Carpagiani will run, for a countertop model in between 5.,700 & maybe 7,000. The Paco will cost you about 3,500 with some beakers included, 4 to eight, I think. The rest are extra. But you have to have freezer space for the beakers, both deep and service. You want the beakers kept at about 10 to 20 below zero, and after you "spin" it, want them at 0 to 10(?) above, I believe. The beakers will cost you some bucks, depending on how many ice creams and sorbets you want to offer, but what we did in the place I was at that used a Paco was, we put our mixes into those clear plastic quart containers wih covers, for storage, and then warmed them just enough to dislodge the mix into a Paco beaker. It took some getting used to but in the end I felt the Paco was the business! You'll need some time to get used to it, your formulations would probably change. In any case, It would probably be best advised to go with something that can be easily serviced. Getting our Paco serviced out of Miami was a bitch, not so much because of the people doing it out of New Jersey (it was just parts, and then he walked us thru the machine getting taken apart and put back together), but because UPS screwed us not once but twice in a week! Whether it's a Taylor or a Carpagiani or a ColdElite, you have to have someone who can service it in two hours,4 hours max, with parts in stock. My fave batch freezer is the ColdElite, mainly because of the way you get the mix in the machine. Both the Taylor & the ColdElite turn out great product. I'd love to work with a Carpagiani, have always heard great stuff about it, just nowhere then closer Houston to where I'm at currently. Best of luck, you're a lucky person!!!

Could nathanm be counting the various petit fours that i understand come with the meal? I think they call them "follies"?

Robert Linx = Maison du Chocolat, no? Good list, with the addition of Cluizel, pretty complete!

According to Sams starchefs.com interview, a Taylor Batch Freezer and a Paco-Jet. I would think the Paco's way with ice creams and sorbets is what is wowing you. Besides his recipes, that is. The Paco is a pretty amazing bit of gear, indeed! The grapefruit foam??? Maybe he'll post and let us know. Looks kind of like it's immersion blended right before it goes out, or maybe an 'air' technique, ala 'Bulli?

Just to let people know. The site is back down, I guess to tighten it up, correct typos, all that got mentioned and more, perhaps.

I've also never heard the word "precious" used in reference to a dessert either. I've never had any of my customers say, "Ew! Send this back! It's far too precious!" ← I've never had someone call my stuff "precious", at least to my face but, I did have someone call one of my desserts "Too abstract" to eat, and sent it back! Thanks for checking in, Sam, and for being a good sport regarding the "critics" here. They seem kind of wired today, god forbid someone has to hit the 'mute' key on their keyboard to shut the music off. Re: Gellan: A lot of times you can get a company to send you some samples, especially if you're a chef, PC, etc. Give it a try, I know people who got sodium alginate and calcium cholride that way before taking the leap.

Just wanted to let all interested parties know that this site is up and running now, as in full blast!!! Some recipes, links, photos... Very cool site.

Can't wait to read your report, nathan!!! Hope you have a GREAT time!

To elaborate on this a bit, The ones I've made in a couple of highly rated Nuevo Latino restaurants, we generally used a genoise that contained no butter. That's a very necessary feature, IMO. You already are going to have a lot of richness coming from the sweetened condensed milk, the evaporated milk and the heavy cream. The ittem I've seen the most in topping them is meringue, Italian meringue, typically. On a chocolate one we made (with cocoa) we used a raspberry foam. Passion Fruit would be nice, we've used a PF coulis with bananas frequently, it's one of the classics. I think strawberry or cherry even would be nice. Liquors always add a nice touch to flavoring the milks too.