djyee100

OK, ok, after reading this thread I decided to watch the 60 Minutes segment that precipitated this vigorous discussion. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/13/...in4863738.shtml Obviously some people are bothered by Waters and/or Stahl, but frankly, I felt OK about both of them. Waters came across as charming, if inflexible in her principles, and Stahl was fair in assessing the pros and cons of Alice's message, and also Alice's personality. Waters believes, and says flat out, that the way we're eating is making us sick. With that base for her ideas, I can understand why she is so zealous (some would say overzealous) in what she has to say. Stahl rightfully points out that Waters--in her personal habits--lives in a different world than the rest of us. That portion of the show in Waters' kitchen was unfortunate. I perceive Waters was inviting Stahl into her home and giving her a treat (the epitome of Waters' food style, if you like), and people may be reading too much into all that business about microwaves, no supermarket food, and cooking eggs in your own kitchen fireplace. Those are Waters' choices and opinions. How much was she saying that everybody shd be like her and do as she does? Probably somewhat, by implication, but not finger-wagging as I see it. As for that fantastic kitchen, Waters is one of the top restauranteurs in the world, whose life has revolved around food and cooking, and she's going to have a kitchen like that. So do other chefs and restauranteurs who have been successful! Give the woman a break! And cooking an egg over a wood fire might seem pretentious to some, but to me that would be a joyful and sensual experience. Remember, Waters was originally a Montessori teacher, and she has emphasized the joy of the senses in food (something that can occasionally be lost in her political message). People do the best they can to make a better world, according to their desires and priorities. Two of my friends are locavores who have (unsuccessfully) tried to persuade me to do the same. I support a CSA--that's my thing. One of my friends, an administrative asst, has two teenage boys who, in her words, are eating her out of house and home! She tries to shop at farmers markets. Other people I know could care less about organic food. But they're raising their kids well and they're active in supporting the public schools. That sounds good to me. I'm glad to have read this discussion on EGullet. People have made many good points. I don't think there's any absolute right or wrong here, as other people have said. Alice Waters, by words and actions, is presenting us with what she considers to be the ideal. We can agree or disagree, or we can simply say, That's a good idea, but not right now, thank you.

A pasta carbonara with asparagus, mushrooms, Parmesan, and Marsala. I posted the recipe elsewhere on EGullet, Post #6: here.

I played around with the idea of a revised menu of winter squash soup (instead of the turtle soup) served with amontillado, the quail en sarcophage, the salad, and then the baba au rhum with glaceed fruit. Coffee and brandy to finish of course. That's plenty of food and cooking right there. I'm inclined to omit the cheese and fruit course, as much as I adore cheese and fruit, because cheese is so filling in itself. OK, so maybe I'll put the blinis demidoff back in. But the caviar will be orange salmon caviar or tobiko, not sevruga! When you see the movie again, watch how much caviar Babette puts on those blinis. You have to win the lottery to do that. At the end of the dinner, my guests must go outside to look at the stars, like in the movie. I will insist on it. ETA: The next time you watch the movie, there's a scene at the end of the dinner where Babette is sitting down in the kitchen sipping a glass of wine. Towards the left of the screen, on the kitchen counter (along with the animal heads and such) is an attractive spot of red. When I watched the movie on DVD on my computer, I froze the frame and zoomed in on that spot of red. What is that? Well, it's a tomato. Yes, a tomato in the boonies of Denmark in late autumn. Babette must have bought it off the ship from California when it came to town.

I would add that her work and words inspire others to do what they can towards the ideals she espouses. Last year I was taking a cooking class in Berkeley, and I got into a conversation with the sous-chef for the class, an older guy and obviously a professional. He said he was a former exec chef, now retired, and he volunteered his time to teach Berkeley school kids how to cook. He told me he loved teaching those kids. I wonder if he would have had the idea to teach school kids to cook, or he would have had the opportunity to do so in the Berkeley public schools, if it weren't for Alice Waters.

My favorite recipe for pasta carbonara with asparagus. Adapted from Good Tastes by Sherry Golden, a little known but worthy cookbook from the 1980s, now out of print. SPAGHETTI AND EGGS WITH ASPARAGUS AND MUSHROOMS Adapted from Good Tastes by Sherry Golden 2 lbs fresh asparagus 4 TB butter 1 1/2 cups chopped onion 4 large cloves garlic, minced 1/2 lb mushrooms, sliced 1/2 cup dry Marsala salt & freshly ground black pepper 4 extra-large eggs 1 1/2 cups freshly grated Parmesan cheese, plus extra for serving 2/3 cup milk 4 TB olive oil 2 tsp salt 1 lb spaghetti, linguine or vermicelli Trim off any woody parts of the asparagus. Keep the tips whole and cut the stalks into 1/2" diagonal slices. If desired, warm some plates for service. Heat the butter in a large saute pan or wok, and saute the onion until it is tender. Add the garlic, asparagus pieces, and mushrooms, and saute over high heat until the asparagus is crisp-tender. Add the Marsala and continue cooking until the Marsala is completely absorbed and evaporated. Season lightly with salt and pepper. Set aside. In a bowl combine the eggs, Parmesan cheese, milk, olive oil, 2 tsp salt, and more black pepper if desired. Set aside. Cook the pasta until it is al dente. Just before the pasta is done, reheat the asparagus mixture until it is very hot. Drain the pasta and immediately add it to the asparagus mixture. Turn off the heat, or reduce to very low heat. Add the egg mixture and toss quickly until the pasta is coated with lightly thickened sauce. Taste and adjust for seasoning. Serve immediately on warm plates, with extra grated Parmesan on the side. Yields 4-6 servings.

I've been obsessed with the meal from Babette's Feast for years, especially the version in the film. I once read that researchers for the film checked old cookbooks for the dishes that Isak Dinesen mentioned in her story, and concluded that Dinesen had made them all up! So they had to develop recipes for all the dishes in the film. When the film was released, this article appeared in the NY Times, with recipes. Are you up for making Blinis Demidoff or Cailles en Sarcophages? http://www.nytimes.com/1988/03/02/garden/i...se&pagewanted=1 Other notes on the food (in the film) that I've taken over the years: The salad is a composed salad of red lettuce, hearts of romaine, Belgian endive cut in matchsticks (best guess), whole walnuts, and vinaigrette. The baba au rhum is garnished with glaceed fruits (angelica, cherries, pear?, apricots), plus candied rose petals and that spectacular whole candied rose on top. The fruit and cheese platter holds figs, red and green grapes, papaya, pineapple, dates, maybe pears. The cheeses look like some kind of yellow cow's milk hard cheese (8-12" diam) and blue cheese (6" diam). At the end of the meal the guests are served coffee and vieux marc fine champagne (from Cognac appellation--super brandy?). A friend and I were tossing around the idea of making this feast for people we like very very much, but so far it's all just talk.

I met Alice Waters only once, very briefly. She came across to me as something of an old world traditionalist, idealistic, snobby (she made a disparaging comment about Mission olives), strong-willed, sweet, humorous, and helpful with a question I had. She has her strengths and weaknesses like everybody else, so let her be a human being. I agree that her ideal of seasonal organic food is very difficult, if not impossible to meet. I've put $6 organic melons back on the grocery shelf, believe me. But by setting such a high ideal, she has moved the world along, so I focus on that. As for the preachiness, I can only say that communication is a two-way street, and what someone hears is not necessarily what the speaker intends. For great idealists, the ideal is attainable for everyone--whether or not those other people agree! Alice Waters has the great certainty of people who start things.

I might buy a little more. It really depends on the quality of your purveyor and how fresh the oysters are. Some people can guess dead oysters in the shell because those oysters are noticeably lighter in weight than live ones. Then when you open the shell, the dead oyster will smell unpleasant--like low tide. Ugh. Throw those ones out. My fishmonger will give me good oysters to replace the spoiled ones free of charge the next time I'm at the store. I just tell them that one or two oysters were spoiled in the last batch, and they take my word for it.

I've never eaten pitango, wish I could, but people's mention of its sweet pepper taste reminded me of this delicious soup. Maybe substitute pitango for the red peppers? http://www.cuesa.org/cuesa/e-letter/archiv...cipe_090806.htm

Julia's method from Mastering the Art (mousseline de volaille, mousse de jambon) tells you to puree stock, gelatin, and meat in a blender. When it's almost set, you fold in softly whipped cream, & chill. Sounds like fluffy and salty to me. Julia adds in yummies like shallots and cognac. If you don't have the book handy and you would like copies of the recipes, PM me and I can make a PDF available for you.

The number 28 inches ( 70 cm) sticks in my head from a French bread class I took recently with a traditional baker. That number was confirmed on this blog. See sidebar "Shaping A Baguette." http://ayearinbread.earthandhearth.com/200...sian-daily.html Raymond Calvel's The Taste of Bread has a chart of the traditional French bread shapes, their weights, and sizes. A technical book, but available thru my public library by library consortium exchange. Wouldn't you know it, I returned the book yesterday to my library. French law dictates the baguette's weight and composition. I would guess length also. That would be another place to research.

Not too many fluffy savory dishes in my repertoire either. The need for easy, room temp service is a limitation, too. Is this some kind of cooking dare?? Mousse is...mousse. I was checking Julia's Mastering the Art last night, and there's a recipe for Ham Mousse. I envisioned fluffy spam. Maybe that recipe could morph into Duck Leg Mousse. And of course there's tried and true chicken liver mousse. Find some moose meat and make Moose Mousse?

It took awhile for this one to percolate up to the database. It's salty, it's fluffy if you whip the potatoes properly, it's quite delicious. You can serve this like a spread or dip on toasted bread or olive oil crackers. I like it warm, but at room temp it's still flavorful. Salt Cod & Potato Cazuela from Cesar (page 156): http://books.google.com/books?id=Zdz6isJAw...+said#PPA156,M1

I suggest you check out tapas recipes. The Spanish like their salt (and oil!). Some recipes from Janet Mendel-- Empanadillas: http://books.google.com/books?id=o7CucUkap...dillas#PPA17,M1 Shrimp Fritters: http://books.google.com/books?id=tp2RbFIuB...num=1&ct=result Cheese & Potato Croquettes: http://books.google.com/books?id=o7CucUkap...dillas#PPA22,M1 Also, are we talking only protein here? You could also make herbed focaccia with liberal salt on the the top.

I made this herbed grilled steak from Alice Waters' The Art of Simple Food & thought it was great. http://www.marthastewart.com/portal/site/m...0005b09a00aRCRD ETA: I cooked a regular steak, not grass-fed, & the recipe turned out fine.

Could you tell us what the rest of the menu will be?

Frankly, cookbooks and cooking styles are so personal that I suggest you buy this wonderful woman something else. How about something for her kitchen? or a lovely serving platter? Something she can put in her house, look at, and remember your gratitude. You could check out the Berkeley Potters Guild for somewhat pricey, but first-rate, unique items. http://www.berkeleypotters.com/weekendgallery.html I do think the Amazon gift certificate, if somewhat impersonal, would probably be your best bet.

For easier mixing, cut up the firm starter into walnut size pieces, then add to your new dough. Let us know how it goes.

My apologies. Not really. Didn't somebody ask about the flavor and density of SF sourdough upthread?

Some good-looking efforts here. I believe the loaf tastes more sour as it dries out. Peter Reinhart in Bread Baker's Apprentice mentions this on page 97, in the cooling step of bread: "During this time (the loaves) continue to evaporate moisture, drying out and ...intensifying in flavor." I assume this process continues even after the loaves have completely cooled but continue to dry out at room temp. I also came across this note in Reinhart's BBA, for anyone interested in making a more sour loaf (MikeJ?). The box on page 234: "(A) mother starter as a very dry dough...makes a very sour bread...Acetic bacteria prefer the denser, less-aerated environment of the firm starter..." Reinhart then says that to make a firm starter, reduce the water weight to 50-57 percent of flour weight when refreshing the mother starter. For myself, I've been eating sourdough but not making it. I was in the neighborhood of the Arizmendi Bakery in SF yesterday, and bought one of their sourdough baguettes. (Also a sticky pecan roll, which was consumed with coffee before I even left the premises, a corn cherry scone, and sourdough English muffins. I went to the bakery to buy only the baguette. ) This sourdough baguette, similar to the one at the Cheese Board in Berkeley, is mild as far as sourdoughs go. It is tangy, but not sour. But I do like my sourdoughs that way. Below, a pic to show you the density of the bread. The recipe for this bread is available on Googlebooks here: http://books.google.com/books?id=W-3C3KeeJ...+works#PPA93,M1

You can puree young coconut meat and add it to the base for coconut sorbet or coconut ice cream. Churn and freeze the base in an ice cream maker as you usually do, then by hand stir in some more young coconut meat that has been coarsely chopped or slivered--that will add little jelly-like bits for textural contrast. For a flashy presentation, serve the sorbet or ice cream in a hollowed-out and chilled young coconut shell. I think the sorbet or ice cream absorbs flavors from the shell and tastes even better. I've made this sorbet, starting with a typical coconut sorbet recipe using regular coconut milk. The young coconut puree and chopped meat give the sorbet a more intense flavor and textural interest. I couldn't tell you how traditional this dessert is, but it's served in restaurants in Thailand.

The dessert sounds like Kheer Sevian, also known as Sheer Khorma by Muslims.

Yes, I say that too. The ingredients list from the paper bag that the bread comes in: Unbleached organic wheat flour, water, whole wheat starter, organic whole wheat flour, salt, malted barley flour. That's it. This bread has been compared to the Poilane miche. It's the bread that comes to the table at Chez Panisse and the Zuni Cafe in SF. I wish I knew more about lactobacillus sanfrancisco, the bacterial organism that is credited with the uniqueness of SF sourdough. Reinhart in BBA only says: "San Francisco sourdough bread...has a particular type of local bacteria called Lactobacillus sanfrancisco that gives this bread a different quality, more sour with a thicker crust, than any other wild-yeast bread made in other parts of the world." A 1987 article in the NYT about outstanding sourdough breads in SF. The Acme pain au levain and the Cheese Board's sourdough baguettes (mmm...) are still sold. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...n=&pagewanted=1 ETA: If you are in SF and don't want to cross the Bay to the Cheese Board in Berkeley, you can find the same kind of breads at the Arizmendi Bakery in SF. The Arizmendi Bakery is a child of the Cheese Board, and shares their bread recipes. http://www.arizmendibakery.org/

I agree, sourdough bread, like most anything else, is a matter of taste. That said, I'm not a fan of Boudin breads. I always recommend Acme's pain au levain to people as a great SF sourdough bread. I would describe Acme's pain au levain as tasting tangy with a sour note. The sour note is distinctly sour, but not very sour (not pucker up sour). It's definitely a tangy bread, though. Pain au levain has great crust, great crumb, great aroma...I could go on, but I prefer to eat it. Below, a pic so you can see the density of the bread. (Abooja's post was my excuse to buy a loaf on my way home. ) Acme has an outlet in the Ferry Bldg on Embarcadero in SF. http://www.ferrybuildingmarketplace.com/ac...ead_company.php

Apropos of this method, a recipe from Roz Gold's Recipes 1-2-3. No broth in it, only the puree from canned tomatoes. I scratched my head when I first read this recipe, and wondered how the dish would turn out. Although I'm curious about it, I've never tried it. Gold says Giuliano Bugialli found this recipe in an 1841 Italian cookbook. Bugialli says any short tubular pasta will do. A Very Old Neapolitan Recipe Macaroni and Tomatoes adapted from Recipes 1-2-3 8 oz dried cavatelli 6 TB olive oil 1 28-oz can imported plum tomatoes in puree Preheat oven to 400 degrees. Lightly grease a large shallow casserole dish. In a bowl, mix the pasta and the olive oil, and let stand for 20 mins. Then add in the tomatoes, 1 tsp coarse salt and freshly ground black pepper to taste. Mix well. Place the mixture in the casserole dish. Bake for 45 mins, stirring occasionally so the pasta doesn't stick. Serve immediately. Anybody ever try anything like this? What was the texture of the pasta like?