paulraphael

NY or Ribeye? I'd pick whichever is your favorite. I think 1.5" thick is about perfect for sv steaks. Thin enough that the cook isn't too long, thick enough that the middle doesn't get effected noticeably by the searing. If you put it in a bath that's 1°C hotter than you want the meat to be, it should be about perfect in 1:45.

Very interesting. I think you're right about the sow's-ear-to-silk-purse idea. It's about turning tough cuts into tender ones, not cheap tender ones into expensive tender ones. But I don't want to make assumptions about Unpopular Poet's steak. People get results that are hard to explain out of every cooking method.

Interesting, Jo, thanks for posting. When I was corresponding with him about ice cream the blender never came up, so I'm guessing it's a new trick of his. I haven't tried it. I'm not feeling a lack of smoothness and creaminess, anyway. An extra blending step isn't high on the list. Really cool about J.B.B.'s ice cream. I wonder if she got the concentrated skim milk technique from commercial ice makers (like Hagen Dazs, who don't use stabilizers). I'm curious about the pasteurization laws the Modern Farmer article complains about. Most ice cream making methods re-pasteurize the ingredients. Maybe the authorities don't count this.

You've stumped me. Ribeyes are fabulous, and 2 hours isn't too long. When you get into much longer cooking times, a cut like that can become too tender (this is when people complain about mushiness) and it can also lose so much juice that it gets dry. But I don't know why you were getting dry steaks at those times.

How long were you cooking for? Could you describe the steaks (cut, thickness) and the cooking methodology? It's not so surprising to dry out steaks when cooking s.v., under certain circumstances.

What didn't you like about the s.v. steak? I'm interested especially in the difference between s.v. and the steak steamed before searing. This last method sounds like what combi oven or cvap oven does, and the only practical difference between these and s.v. is that they require a really freakin' expensive oven.

If you use the new grinder, I suspect you'll love the burger no matter how you cook it! That makes such a big difference it won't be a fair test ...

Baron! I would agree with you that "perfection" is largely subjective. I would doubt, however, that in a blind taste test, anyone here would include a ring of dried-out, overcooked meat in their personal definition. This is one of the things s.v. offers a solution to. Of course, you could use s.v. to achieve exactly this quality, if you so desired. And you'd be able to do it precisely and do it every time. It's quite friendly that way: imagine your version of perfection, then design a s.v. process that will achieve it. I'm skeptical about people "unlearning" how to cook because of s.v.. I don't know of anyone who's picked it up as a beginner's method. Personally, I find it's improved the cooking I do by other methods. It's taught me things about what happens at spefici temperatures, and with small variations in time, which would be very difficult to learn otherwise. When food is in the oven or on a grill there are just so many variables, and kitchen thermometers can only be in one place at a time (and aren't impressively accurate).

Michael Laiskonis has a new blog. Here's one of the best summaries of ice cream science I've seen. Michael taught me a lot of what I know about ice cream. I'm happy to see him in a primarily educational role now at ICE.

Custard actually sets at a wide range of temperatures, depending on the concentration of egg yolks, the final thickness you want, and possibly other factors also. The sense we get from traditional custard making that it just snaps into being thick at a certain temperature isn't quite right.

I actually do have trouble with statements about disliking sous-vide meat. It's not because I'm arguing with anyone's tastes; it's that I don't think there are any innate characterstics to sous-vide meat. Sous-vide* is just one of a handful of means of getting very precise temperature control in a humid cooking environment, for food that may or may not be finished by some other method. There are some conventional ways of using sous-vide cooking that some people may not like. The most popular way to to cook meat to a low level of doneness, with a low temperature delta, so you get rare or medium rare edge from edge to edge. I happen to like this. I you don't, you're not obligated to use it this way. Dryness? It's possible, especially with meat that's been tenderized with long cooking times. But it's not a characteristic of the process. You can also achieve more juiciness than what's possible with any other method. I believe we could verify that or any other of these claims by blind taste test. There are certainly some limitations for certain kinds of food. I like salmon and black bass cooked with the skin on; I haven't found a satisfactory way to do this sous-vide. I can't get anything similar to roasted vegetables. It's generally impractical for a big roast or joint. *this is a lousy name for the process, because we're not talking about vacuum sealing as much as water bath temperature control

I'd suggest identifying the qualities of the meat that you dislike. Forget about how it was cooked, and just consider what you'd like to change. You can almost always design a sous-vide process that will cook the meat exactly the way you like. And then you can do it precisely and repeatably. You may dislike the typical habits of people who cook sous-vide, but those don't represent all the choices available. To illustrate, I bet I could make you a horrible burger by any method!

Mitch, we should join forces and do a burger lab. There are some other cuts I want to experiment with. We could also compare cooking methods, or just do to eliminate cooking variables. This would be, you know, for the greater good.

6 years ago in this thread I asked about Blundstones. I've got 3 pairs now and love them. Non-slip industrial soles, good protection, and they look good. Not exactly fashionable, but they're classics kind of like doc martens or chuck taylors. I wear them to work, out at night, and have worn them cooking all day at home or the occasional times i've cooked in commercial kitchens. They're my most comfortable shoes. Not a ton of support, but plenty of room for insoles or orthotics. Also good in the rain and snow.

Yeah, I think everything else falls many notches below that. The fresh grind part might even be the most important. Even though I'm a big geek for tweaking the meat cuts. I've gotten some pretty nice burgers out of chuck from the supermarket. Edited to add: I think I found Jeffrey ... word is that he's at Staubitz meats in Brooklyn.

Here's a short post on s.v. burgers by Kenji at Seious Eats.

Basqucook, if you gave me your method, and a pile of data— like the starting temperature of the meat, its thickness, and the radiant temperature of your grill, I could probably calculate an approximation of all that. And you'd have to trust my methodology and math—a dubious proposition. If you're really curious about this, why don't you grill up the best burger you can, cut in half, and post a picture? I could do the same with a burger cooked s.v. and finished on a grill (or some other way). Or you can find any of the million such pictures of s.v. burgers already online.

Mitch, what are the results you're looking for?

And that's totally reasonable. For that matter I doubt everyone who likes to cook burgers s.v. wants to do it every time (Rotus just got seduced by that pic of the burger in the pan ...) I'll do it the traditional way any time I don't have time. Or access to the tools. Just as food for thought, there are a few situations when s.v. burgers are attractiveeven if you don't care about the cooking precision. One is if you want to serve medium rare burgers and there may be immune-compromised people (someone pregnant, etc.). Another is if you have to serve a lot of people and want to minimize last-minute work. It's much faster and takes less attention to sear a bunch of things before serving than to try to cook them all the way through. In the restaurant world this is called shifting the burden from service to prep. Anything you can do ahead of time makes life easier. With s.v. cook-chill techniques, you can actually do the cook portion days ahead, and not lose freshness the way you would by trying to hold onto the raw meat.

My previous favorites ca I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you've never had a burger cooked s.v. and seared on a grill.

Before making that analogy, maybe consider that most of the top contemporary chefs cook their proteins sous-vide. They still break eggs by hand. If the process doesn't appeal to you, no one's going to twist your arm. You asked why anyone would cook a burger like this. I've given a lot of reasons. This is old, old news by now. Chefs have been cooking their proteins SV for over 30 years. If it seems like a fad, it's only because us rabble haven't been able to afford the tools until recently.

Actually, I do. I promise. However, in many cases in a social setting, grilling a burger well requires more attention than I'm interested in giving it. Especially when it's some else's grill, being managed by someone else, and the burgers are competing with chicken and corn and whatever everyone else has brought over. And more importantly, grilling it well will never be as good as sous-viding well and finishing it well on a grill. Doesn't matter if it's me, or you, or Bobby Flay doing the grilling. You're going to overcook more meat on the grill or with any high-heat method.

Here's an example of SV burgers really shining. Last weekend some friends were grilling in the yard and we all brought stuff over. I've often brought burgers to this kind of thing, because I love grinding my own meat blends and making something special. But in a social grilling setting, the burgers often don't get cooked well. I'm there to hang out with friends and drink beers, not to commandeer a grill and play mr. chef. So the the cooking is a crapshoot. Especially on charcoal, which can probably give the best results, but is also harder to control, especially when you're not in charge (and don't want to be). Last weekend I made the burgers as I always do, but then cooked them sous-vide and chilled in an ice bath. I brought them over in an insulated bag just like I would with raw burgers. When it came time to cook, I dried them off, and asked my host to clear off a section of the grill that I could make extra hot. In about 4 minutes they were nicely browned, with grill marks, and while they cooked more while browning than I thought was ideal, they were still pink from edge to edge. They were honestly the best burgers I've ever had that came off a grill, and this was my first attempt at combining the two processes. It's only going to get better with some practice.

You may be disagreeing with me on how much overcooked meat constitutes "a significant portion." But I can promise that with SV, or other low delta-t cooking methods, that portion will be much, much smaller. Good technique when cooking with high heat can reduce the gradient only so much. It's ultimately a matter of physics.

By perfect, I mean evenly. But more importantly I mean avoiding overcooked edges. I've come close in a skillet, but even the best conventionally cooked medium-rare burgers will have a significant portion of meat that goes from medium to beyond well-done. Some people say they like a variety of textures. I get that. But I don't believe anyone honestly wants that variety to include completely dried-out and flavorless. 180°F ground beef = destroyed. With sous-vide, you can have your ideal level of doneness from edge to edge. Or if you want a gradient from, say, bright pink to slightly pink, you can easily create that too. And then you can put a killer crust on it, by your way of choice. You can smoke it, if you want, or deep fry, sauté, or finish on a grill for grilled flavors. No compromises. Another benefit: you can safely serve medium-rare burgers to immune compromised people. Just cook them long enough to pasteurize. It ads just over an hour to the unattended cooking time.