paulraphael

The French cooking books I have are the Bistro book by Hirigoyen, the original Julia Child books, Pepin's Complete Techniques (which I think of more as a reference than anything else), Larousse Gastronomique (also a reference) and Peterson's Glorious French Food (in spite of its title). My most used ones are the Julia Child vol. 1 and the Peterson book. But I rarely make recipes as written; I'm mostly interested in learning about the ingredients and techniques and the history and idiosyncracies of a particular style. I then like to apply all of that to whatever ingredients I can grab, or to whatever I'm in the mood to cook or eat. I only ocassionally cook "authentic" French, and when I do it's more for frame of reference than anything else. Peterson is a demigod for anyone who likes to cook like this. His explanations of ingredients and techniques and concerns for improvisation are much more thorough than anyone else's that I've seen. And the books are such a good read. I like his philosophy of trying to wean you from the recipes so you can just go into the kitchen and cook. On the other hand, if you do want to cook from a recipe, Peterson might drive you crazy. I get the impression that half of his recipes he just pulled out of thin air, without testing. They should be prefaced with the disclaimer, "See what happens when you try something kind of like this ..." Some of it is odd tastes (he likes chicken dark meat cooked to 145 degrees) and some just seems like mistakes (his cooking time/temperature for pate brisee tart shells will probably start a fire in your oven). I sometimes wonder if this on purpose ... if he throws in things like this to keep you on your toes, so you don't fall into the habit of slavishly following recipes. At any rate, when I do want to make a recipe, I learn the theory techniques from Peterson, and then cross reference the recipe against Julia Child of Jacques Pepin, just for a second opinion, to keep myself out of trouble.

Generally the better the steak, the simpler I like to keep it. I don't cook steak very often, so when I do I usually splurge and get something nice ... so it's rare that I make a complex sauce. I usually go for a sauce that intensifies and harmonizes the flavors rather than a condiment-style sauce that contrasts the flavors. So I make use of pan drippings, brown stock, and/or demiglace as the main ingredient, ocasionally with a flavor base of white wine infused with shallots--really basic stuff. Other ingredients that I like to use are mushroom preparations like duxelles, which just seem to bring out the best in meats without overpowering them. And also herbs, especially thyme as a background seasoning, and parsley as a finishing herb to liven and freshen the final flavor. And of course some salt and pepper for final balance. But not usually in the quantities you'd associate with a poivrade. I like to keep the thickness of the sauce on the loose side ... I'm comfortable with anything from an unbound brothlike consistency to a very light syruppy consistency that's just thick enough to coat the back of a spoon. I think it's important that the sauce doesn't cling to the meat in such a high quantity to overwhelm it. Generally, the thinner the sauce, the more intensely I like to flavor it. which works out well, because most liasons tend to mute the flavors a bit. I'll often make a loose sauce with unbound, reduced stock, and then give it just a bit of sheen and body at the end with some butter. The demiglace that I make is quite intensely flavored, so I tend to use less of it than what's called for in most traditional recipes, and dispense with any additional reduction. With a good steak I'm inclined to plate the meat with the sauce, usually on top of a small pool of it. I'm always afraid that dinner guests will look at a separate sauce container and think of Mom's Gravy, and drown their poor piece of meat. So I take care of it in the kitchen.

I think there are a few differences. Shape, most obviously, which you've gone on to address. And which I've found isn't something you can take for granted. Finding a high quality pan in a shape that seemed reasonable was no easy trick. The materials also make a difference when you use the pan on the stove. Which of course isn't roasting, but there are a lot of times I need this from a roasting pan. Usually it's related to the roasting process (searing a piece of meat before putting it in the oven, or deglazing the pan afterwards). Sometimes it's unrelated to roasting--browning a bunch of meat quickly before making stock. There are some non-roasting things like this that a roasting pan is just better suited for than anything else. I also think the materials/thickness/surface finish make a difference while roasting. Most of the meat is going to get cooked by convection and radiation, but the bottom of the meat, and the pan juices, are going to be cooked largely by conduction from the pan. The surface of the pan is going to be influenced not just by the ambient temperature of the oven, but also by its absorption of radiant energy (dark surfaces absorbing more, polished stainless the least, brushed stainless or aluminum somewhere in between) and by its thermal mass and conduction. The result is that some pans seem to do a more reliable job of browning pan juices and the bottom of a roast than others. There are likewise some pans that don't brown very well, and others that seem to burn the fond almost every time. In my personal experience, aluminum clad with stainless has been an exellent all-around performer. Especially if the outer surface is a dull or brushed finish, rather than a mirror finish. I'd be willing to bet that plain, heavy aluminum would perform comparably well, but I very much like to have a stainless steel interior for ease of cleaning.

I hope your question about the frying pan and the saute pan generates some discussion. I think a lot of people will tell you that a straight sided saute pan is more useful in the 11" size, but I think it depends on how you plan to use it most. Personally, I do a lot sauteeing, and I like the slope-sided frying pan (poelle) in the 11 or 12 inch size. I do not use this size for tossing food (true sauteeing), but for turning larger pieces of food (chicken breasts, steaks, fish fillets, etc.) or for stirring larger amounts of small pieces than will fit in a 10" poelle. The low sides make it easier to reach in with tongs or a spatula, and I like the curved corners for access to them with a whisk when making a pan sauce. The sides of the poelle are high enough for any sauce volume I'll be making for a sauteed dish. They are not high enough for sauces that you make when the meat is still in the pan (like with braises, fricasees, etc.). Ironically, I prefer a saute pan for these dishes, and a poelle for true sautees. For the 11" size, heavy copper like the Falk is a great choice. If you plan to get a 10" poelle for tossing food, I find copper to be a lousy choice. The pans are just too heavy and badly ballanced. For this size, I prefer aluminum or clad metal. clad pans like the all-clad tend to feel more balanced to me than the pans with a heavy disk on the bottom. The clad ones also tend to be thinner and more responsive to temperature change. All these pans heat evenly enough at this size. I do find stainless steel to be a better cooking surface than the alternatives (nonstick anything, bare aluminum, anodized aluminum, etc.). I'm not sure what the sauciere is that you mention. Maybe you can describe. For me, next to the small and large poelles, my most used pan is a 1.5L sloped sided saucepan (evasee). It's also stainless lined heavy copper, and I'd be lost without it. If you're talking hollandaise, this is your pan. Mine is Mauvielle; the Falk version is probably identical for any practical purposes. For larger saucepans that you won't be using for the most sensitive things, you can definitely look to cheaper materials. I haven't used sitram or demeyere or allclad saucepans ... maybe someone else can chime in. I've had great results from calphalon saucepans, but more and more I prefer using a stainless cooking surface.

Indeed. As I wondered earlier in the thread, why is all the olive oil at my local ghetto supermaket extra virgin? Is there some large scale industrial use for the other grades (processed foods, etc.)?

You're giving me your own personal standards for what kind of risk are acceptable to you. That's great, but there's no universal principle here that you can impose on other people. You used to toprope, that's great. I climb alpine rock and ice routes, sometimes badly protected, sometimes unroped with thousands of feet of exposure. I'd call it moderate risk, high consequence ... almost as serious as a New York City taxi ride on the FDR--another common but not widely recommendable activity. It's all a matter of choice. At any rate, enough people eat uncooked cured meat that I think we'd have some sobering statistics if the risks were really that serious.

This must have come up before, but I didn't see anything in the archives. What's the story with these things? Are they really any good compared with the European ones that cost 10 times as much?

I've tried this a couple of times. James Peterson recommends taking out of the overn at 140 or 145 at the thickest point--my friends and I were thoroughly grossed out by the results! It's possible that these are primitive American tastes (like old people who like their steaks burnt to a crisp) but we couldn't get into that pink, translucent, slippery meat. I don't think there are any safety issues with medium rare poultry ... just gag issues. If you like it, go for it. Personally, I need to feel a cooked texture (but not so cooked that it dries out and toughens up).

That's utter nonsense. Refusing to understand the risks might be called stupid, but an informed choice to take a risk is just an informed choice. I go rock climbing and ice climbing. Some closed minded people call these pursuits stupid, but the fact is that I spend a lot of time studying and managing the risks. My choices to to accept or not accept those risks are personal ones. They can be judged on a scale of cautious to reckless, but not smart to stupid. In the same spirit an intelligent person on this board might choose to uncooked ham, smoked fish, soft cheese, or raw eggs.

It looks to me like the risk is minor, as with many other foods. If you're unwilling to eat uncooked, salt cured ham, you should similarly avoid smoked fish and soft cheeses. http://cerhr.niehs.nih.gov/common/listeria.html

Interesting thoughts. Someone else suggested that in this country, a lot of oil labelled EVOO is actually a processed product that's just had its acidity reduced (this in response to my question about all the cheap, bland oils at the supermarket labelled EVOO). Is this the case? Do these cheap inauthentic EVOOs share any of the advantages of the artisinal ones? I tend to use EVOO for everything, in general, but the one I cook with is one of the el-cheapo types. The flavor is pretty mild, especially when cooked, so I find it works for most things. It would be nice if this stuff actually came with some of the alleged health benefits.

Just a quick survey to see what temp people like to cook their roasted chicken to. I used to pull it out of the oven when a thermometer stuck between the thigh and breast read 155 to 160 ... then let it rest under a loose foil tent for 10 minutes or so. I forget what temp it would rise to, and it's actully been a long time since I've used a thermometer at all. I do know I like it somewhere between what the government recommends (incinerated) and what James Peterson recommends (still flapping its wings). I'm especially curious what people think the ideal temperatures are for the white meat and the dark meat separately. (I like to cover the breast meat with foil for the first several minutes of cooking so I can control the two separately)

ha! I was telling my best friend about the place, and the $3000 sashimi knives in the glass cases... he's a cook and a bit of a knife fetishist. he said the same thing you did. I asked if he was afraid he'd walk out of there with a sashimi knife. he said, "I'm afraid I'd walk out of there with a sashimi LIFESTYLE--I'd buy the knife, for sure, but I'd have to figure out how to rearrange all my priorities in order to justify having it."

What I'm trying to figure out is why olive oil besides extra virgin is getting hard to find. I used to have a good extra virgin oil for dresings and vinnaigretttes and dipping bread (anything raw) and a big can of cheap "pure" grade for cooking. Now almost everything, even at my local (ghetto) supermarket is extra virgin. If there are any other grades, they're usually no cheaper than the cheap extra virgins. Of course the cheap-o extra virgins are much less flavorful than most of the expensive ones ... but it makes me wonder what the deal is with this glut of extra virgin oil that tastes like and costs the same as cheaper grades.

My least favorite part of cooking: reaching up into my cabinet for a storage container, having 12 of them fall onto my head and all over the floor, picking them up, and discovering that none of the lids that fell on me matches any of the containers that fell on me. My stash is a mix of retro-colored oddities bought at discount stores and supermarkets, left by dinner guests and ex-girlfriends, mixed in with some pieces of unknown origin (including a plastic caramel corn container that has somehow survived two cross-country moves). Each of the containers is good enough for what I ask of it, but as a collection they're driving me insane. There must be a better way. Here's what I'd love: -decent quality. something that will last, and that won't melt in the microwave when reheating leftovers (almost all of them seem up to this) - rectangular shapes that store easily - just a few useful sizes. so matching lids is easy. maybe even ones that differ just in height, so lids are interchangeable. smallest ones should be small enough for a bit of leftover sauce; largest ones should be big enough for a roast chicken. - cheap enough that i won't get mad when i leave them at someone's house. Any ideas??

Cool, thanks. I'll check these guys out. Couldn't find a website for Florence ... anyone know if they have one?

Not quite. I went to Korin yesterday and drooled over a few knives. Had a long chat with one of their knife guys. I think I'd be interested in a japanese santoku knife for the light duty stuff ... a Misono, or Ittosai perhaps. I'm going to stick with my goldhamster for an all purpose chef's knife though. Partly because I love it, but mostly for maintenance reasons. The man at Korin told me I wouldn't get too far maintaining the Japanese knives on a steel, and that they need regular maintenance on water stones (they might hold their edge for several times longer than the german knife can go between steelings, but then the sharpening is a lot more serious--skill and labor intensive). My goldhamster still has the factory edge on it, and it's been my only chef's knife for the last five years. steeling has kept it sharp enough to shave with. I think there's an advantage to the softer steel in this regard. But I think when I have some extra cash I'll get the santoku ... it will see lighter use, probably be a joy to slip through carots and onions, and will probably go a couple of months at a time between sharpenings.

Admin: threads merged. I used to buy prime, dry aged beef at Balducci's, but they're gone now. The restaurant chain that took them over runs things very differently. Since then I've gone to Jefferson Market, where the quality isn't quite as high (and the price isn't either). I'm not that impressed with Citarella or Dean and DeLucca (seem overpriced for the quality). One day when I rob a bank I'll try Lobel's, but I'll never be making a regular habit of that place. I'm wondering what other places people like. Preferably in a downtown neighborhood. Thoughts?

Spice blends seem like they can be a reasonable compromise for someone in a hurry (although I don't buy them, and I get really annoyed when I see products like "Italian Blend" ... what the hell could that be??) Cookware and knife sets seem almost universally ridiculous, though. The worst examples of false economy. It just takes that one useless pan in the set to turn the bargain into a bad deal. And I personally think different materials suit different functions ... which rules out any set offered by anyone. I always beg people to just get the one thing they need most ... a good chef's knife, a good saute pan or poele ... and start from there. Figure out what shapes and sizes they really use the most, and figure out how they like to use them, and then replace the wallmart cookware a piece at a time in order of urgency. Saves any major cash outlays, and helps prevent collosally expensive mistakes.

I got the viking pan, and put it through its paces: a pair of chickens roasted on a bed of vegetables at 500 degrees, and a pan sauce on the stove afterwards; 6 lbs. of beef and veal shank rounds browned and deglazed on the stovetop for stock; 6 lbs of beef shin bones browned in the oven at 375 degrees and then deglazed. Browning was perfect, on all the meat and all the pan drippings. evenness is especially impressive when deglazing on the stove. Nothing burned or overbrowned. This is by far the best roasting pan i've ever used. the stainless/aluminum clad material works as well as it does in other pans, and the short (2-1/2") sides allow much more even browning than in my previous pan (same materials, but sides an inch higher). Seems so strange that no one else is making a high quality clad pan with low sides. Only complaint is the odd handle design ... they bend inward and so cut into the interior space of the roasting pan. This annoys me, but in practice hasn't caused any problems. I love this pan. If anyone is interested in it , it's the viking "chef's pan" ... not the "roasting pan", which has high sides and an accompanying rack.

My thoughts are the same as yours. given the choice I'd shop there instead of most of my local stores (factory meat, cryovac city) any day.

Has anyone discussed non-stone options for counters? The kitchen I have right now (rented) has a mix of granite and marble, and I have to say the stone surface drives me nuts. I like being able to set hot pans down, but it's not worth having to be so delicate with dishes and glasses. After living with stone, formica seems cheap, but I've never had the solid plastic options. I do have a butcher block that I made out of a 3 foot sanded piece of maple butcher block countertop. That might be my ideal counter material of all. Fairly high maintenance, and you have to be ok with scratches and dents (I am) but otherwise, I like the look and the forgiving nature of it. Any thoughts?

Be sure to check out the factory refurbs that are available from the kitchen aid online store. The pro 600 goes for $239, with free shipping. Warranty is lowered to 6 months, and doesn't cover minor superficial blemishes. Word from KA is that any product that gets returned for any reason, including overstock from a retailer or shipping company, must be sold as refurb. They get inspected and any parts that wear are replaced. If I were buying a mixer I would do this without hesitation. The forums at the KA site have a lot of useful info ... especially on geek topics like the metal gear box.

"need" is such a buzzkill of a word, isn't it? honestly, I don't need anything. I use my chef's knife for 99% of everything and love it. I just think these Japanese things are pretty and cool, and love the idea of an obscenely sharp blade for some more delicate cutting. I'll definitely take your advice and spend some time at Korin. I think I can learn a lot from how a knife feels and balances in my hand. It's what I love about my current chef's knife ... I knew it would work for me before it ever touched food.

I just splurged and got this pan from viking: http://www.chefsresource.com/viking-3-func...-chefs-pan.html It's the only pan I could find that had what I wanted: clad stainless construction, and low sides. I haven't roasted anything yet, but on the stove it shows no hot spots. Very nicely made. My only complaint is the bizarre handle design, which intrudes an inch into the pan on each side. Best not to have food this close to the sides anyhow, but it strikes me as a gratuitous feat of dumb overdesigning. Not a deal breaker, though, because I couldn't find any other pan that got the basics right. My kitchenaid roasting pan was almost perfect, but the high sides (3-1/2 inches) really bugged me. They interfered with browning on any of the large roasts that the pan was made for. These high sided pans seem designed for use with a rack, whcih isn't the way I like to do it. So that pan and unused rack are on their way to ebay, and my fingers are crossed that I'll enjoy the pricey new one more.