menon1971

Regarding point five I think the point was not to unduly poo poo (sp) other cuisines because they could never be compared favorably to the French. Second, bitters are ales because they are made with top fermenting ale yeast. Do you live in Adams Morgan? Because other areas of DC are not quite so hip or liberal.

Would you say that the process is similar to frying curly parsley?

Relativist PoMo hippies don't eat at chain restaurants. Besides, in my subjective opinion, Chili's tastes like crap. ← A subjectivity, my friend, informed by fashionable embrace by the bourgeois of "authenticity"and "ethnicity" in post-Kerouak era that led to a fascination with indiginous cooking, Rolling Rock beer and decible-heavy three-chord pop-music played by semi-literate proles. It's likely that you live in a zip code that votes heavily Democratic, that you own at least one Replacements album, that many of your posessions are hand-glazed. (cf "Bobos in Paradise). Rejection of strip-mall food (except in Riverdale and certain quarters of Queens, Northern Virginia and Orange County) is merely another way for the elite to differentiate and lift themselves above the hoi polloi by asserting superior taste, intellect, and tolerance -- the culinary equivalent of an expensively distresses leather jacket. Or maybe Chili's does suck in a relatively certain fashion and maybe, though it lies not in the fields of La Belle France, culinary Valhalla is even further from the air-conditioned high-rises and gallerias of Phoenix. ← Wow. First I would say that bands like the Dead Kennedys, the Replacements, Husker Du, etc. were highly literate folks. Second, could it be that the rejection of chain restaurants is not simply about the educated upper middle class separating themselves but rather a reaction to homogeneity - the human individual seeking difference, authenticity, novelty, and quality. Third I would argue that the distressed leather jacket is more indicative of an affluent culture mimicking the authentic earned paucity of the bohemian without having to actually experience that paucity. Also, I suspect that the wearing of pre-distressed clothing is not partisan and that many Dems don't seek authenticity in their cuisine. I see plenty of blue dot stickers in the parking lots of the local strip malls.

Relativist PoMo hippies don't eat at chain restaurants. Besides, in my subjective opinion, Chili's tastes like crap.Tim sez: "Romaticized Francophilia" in the USA, specifically in regards to dining, goes at least all the way back to Jefferson, does it not? ← Certainly Jefferson, but at least he traveled to France. There was a profound French influence on bourgeois British food in the 18th century. Some of this was embraced by the gentry of Virginia and elsewhere.

Oh, absolutely. I am reasonably positive that there is better Southwestern/Mexican food available in Phoenix than anywhere in France - setting aside the relative merits of Mexican vs. French cuisine. ← My girlfriend is French and I am slowly introducing her to the wonders of Southwestern cuisine with all of its spicy goodness. ← I would almost feel jealous of your girlfriends adventure in authenic Southwestern Cusine, but I just realized that, objectively speaking, the local Chili's just as worthy and good. See y'all at the strip mall! ← That comparison makes me sad. Actually, I am with you Busboy. I am a qualified relativist in that I think there is room for viable argument that strip mall cuisine is vastly different from more deliberately prepared fare -- an argument that I have made in the past. Sorry to say that I will not see you at the strip mall, but perhaps at Lauriol Plaza or El Tamarindo.

Oh, absolutely. I am reasonably positive that there is better Southwestern/Mexican food available in Phoenix than anywhere in France - setting aside the relative merits of Mexican vs. French cuisine. ← My girlfriend is French and I am slowly introducing her to the wonders of Southwestern cuisine with all of its spicy goodness.

No no no. If it is hard to quantify then isn't it merely a subjective opinion?** (My emphasis in the original.) How is it honest to point out that X is better than Y in matters of subjective opinion?**I am pretty sure Heidegger would have something to say to me about that statement, but I can't objectively say what it might be. ← All rely on argument and evidence. I would argue that although things may be subjective, they are not merely subjective. Also, does the mere presence of a number denote objectivity. If ten people in a room pick the cassoulet over the bangers and mash then the subjective truth in that sphere lies with the cassoulet, but the same might not be the same in another circumstance. Foucault might suggest that these perceptions have significance only in historically created matrices of power. ← Foucault also said "language is oppression." Merely asserting that French cuisine is better than British, or American, is not an argument, nor is the presence of a number "evidence." I would argue that there is no objectivity in matters of taste. Impossible. And if that makes me a relativist hippie then so be it. ← Sartre said something to the effect that to name something is to tie it in a knot. Arguments could include freshness and quality of ingredients, terroir, complexity of preparation, etc. Evidence could include consensus. I am simply suggesting that some subjective arguments are better than others based on things like the aforementioned. James said that thrust "happens to an idea." Back to Mr Haywards piece, truth has happened to French food because of their cultural preoccupation with all things culinary and because of who promoted its ascendancy elsewhere. These both rest on subjective foundations, but are given a ring of truth by the power behind them. The point I would like to render relative is the notion that French food is preeminent, or that other cuisines are innately inferior. I have heard that there is much great food in Phoenix, for instance.

No no no. If it is hard to quantify then isn't it merely a subjective opinion?** (My emphasis in the original.) How is it honest to point out that X is better than Y in matters of subjective opinion?**I am pretty sure Heidegger would have something to say to me about that statement, but I can't objectively say what it might be. ← So, anything that can't be easily be quantified is subjective? Truth, beauty (beauty, truth), Shakespeare's talent relative to John Grisham, the dinner you had last night versus the one you'll have tomorrow; justice, culture and "progress?" ← Um, yeah. After reading it three times, I think those are all subjective judgements. Unless you can give me an objective measure for them, such as distance - I think you are absolutely correct. ← Distance is a humanly created and perceived construct.

No no no. If it is hard to quantify then isn't it merely a subjective opinion?** (My emphasis in the original.) How is it honest to point out that X is better than Y in matters of subjective opinion?**I am pretty sure Heidegger would have something to say to me about that statement, but I can't objectively say what it might be. ← All rely on argument and evidence. I would argue that although things may be subjective, they are not merely subjective. Also, does the mere presence of a number denote objectivity. If ten people in a room pick the cassoulet over the bangers and mash then the subjective truth in that sphere lies with the cassoulet, but the same might not be the same in another circumstance. Foucault might suggest that these perceptions have significance only in historically created matrices of power.

But. . .wait a minute there! In the WASP family I come from, that's considered just *lovely* food! Is there something wrong with that?! Mmm. On the other hand, when one thinks of the ways that Elizabeth David wrote of the cooking of the British, and Jane Grigson too. . .it has to be said that certainly the knowledge of "good food" was known, and not just in translation from somewhere else. But attitude does seem to have a lot to do with anything, and how one thinks of oneself (as a culture or as an individual). If the reputation is that it is something (either good or bad) for the most part I think the performance in that category will follow through with most who know of it, for it would take being "different" from the majority to change anything. . .and being "different" is not something that always brings immediate happy rewards to its practicioner. The French have a culture of caring about their food, a cultural attitude that it is *not* just fodder. . .while it is true that some cultures have an attitude that it *is* just fodder and *should be* just fodder as focus of it as more than that would be unseemly in a philosophic way that somehow (though not directly and not specifically) ties into the way the majority of the culture sees the world shaped through the major religion. Our Puritan base here in the US certainly has shaped our attitudes toward enjoyment of food and other earthly pleasures though we seem to be racing to catch up in latter years. I think that if there were more of an attitude in general that Tim showed in this piece about his countries cookery (notice, please that I did *not* use the word "cuisine" ), an attitude of "there's no need for us to follow others who have always said they are better" that then, that is when a place can and will be found among whatever other top dogs have pranced their way to the "top". After all, it's thinking that makes it so, and thinking is is malleable thing based on so many factors. The proof of the pudding that's in the eating can be changed with recipes that grow and become something new. Kowtowing to the ways that "others do it" brings only weak tea and sad derivation. Excuse me. I'm off to find some crumpets. ← The WASP in me compels me to politely tolerate such foods with a stiff upper lip. I am surprised that no one has quoted Cyril Connolly yet. Before I do I would like to state that I love the cheese, baked goods, Yorkshire pudding, pub lunches, Branston pickle, fish and chips, bangers and many other food items of the British isles. That said Connolly once mused: "Oh, the superb wretchedness of English food, what a subtle glow of nationality one feels in ordering a dish that one knows will be bad and being able to eat it! The French do not understand cooking, only good cooking - this is where we score."

So what is the explanation for the better quality* of (the food of) one place over the other? Temperament? Soil and sun? Geography? History? Natural ability or talent? Education? Personal or cultural myth maintained and made real? Economic factors? Class factors? Pure luck? One wonders. *quality being a word that is a bit subjective, of course, when speaking of these things. Though probably we might be able to determine a closer definition upon trying. ← Mushy peas, gray meat, and grayer custard. Enough said. I think it is a matter of priorities (and terroir). The French take food VERY seriously and much of their great food comes from cultures of poverty. On the up side I think the U.S. is experiencing some good luck now that folks are getting more adventurous. I mean sweetbreads in Dayton, OH - right on!

I would tend to agree that American food culture is diverse, but that not everyone participates in this diversity. In reference to Mr Hayward's piece British food is diverse as well, due to the influence of the colonial period, with many Brits seeking refuge in Indian, West Indian, and Chinese fare. True, but the market is driven by people's experiences and dispositions concerning novelty. The Cuban food in Miami is excellent, but I was a minority the cafeterias I visited. I still contend that the consciousness and perception of eGulleteers is not that of many who walk among us. Perhaps a survey is in order. Am I being to judgmental here?

So peanuts are a legume which is a bean like peas?

Guinness: yes please! I want to got to Ireland and eat my body weight in shellfish.

Of course they are! And what passes for "bagels" in parts of the Midwest is a monstrosity! But all that indicates is that "foreign" "ethnic" food has been incorporated into the mainstream. Doesn't that contradict the claim of "xenophobia"? Yes, I think that the great majority of New Yorkers (I'm talking about New York City here) have embraced one or all of the following "foreign" "ethnic" foods: Bagels, pizza, Chinese takeout, pasta, if not more. And as for Long Island, I went to Stony Brook for grad school, and there were two edible Chinese takeout places within reasonable distance of where I was living, plus a good, upscale Italian place. Let's not talk of Long Island as if it were some kind of wasteland of tasteless food, because it isn't. There's a sizable Indian community in Kings Park and environs, a Mexican community in Patchogue, among other places, and a bunch of dining choices in Huntington. Etc. ← NY Pizza is not Italian pizza, although I love it. You are right on about the bagels, most out side of NE cities make me want to weep. I made my comment concerning xenophobia to denote a certain timidity and knee jerk fear of things potentially un-American. Many of the foods you describe were embraced precisely because they were rendered familiar (and dare I say bland). How may Chinese restaurants have whole ducks, hot pots, Chinese clay pot casseroles, and the bevy of ingredients that most Americans would find unfamiliar? Xenophobia may be a strong characterization for the urban urbane, but these folks are not representative of the population as a whole, although I think more and more people are coming around. Pursuant to the original piece discussed I hope that what come out of such discussion and critiques is a desire to understand and hold up the best of food traditions. I have heard that the food culture in the UK has experienced a renaissance. There was always good food there, but having attended state school there briefly in the late 1970s I can say that my experience of British food varied in reference to quality. In contrast, I sent some time growing up in France and found it difficult to not find a good meal.

John, define "relatively new." When I was growing up, I ate in Chinese, Japanese, Jewish, Italian, Greek, Hungarian, Arab, and Indian restaurants, among others, as well as patronizing Jewish, Italian, Viennese, and Hungarian bakeries, again among others. This was in the 70s. And when my parents were courting in the early 50s, I know that they ate at a cheap Greek restaurant and an Indian restaurant (though to be fair, that was one of only two in the city, they say). How widespread are pizza and pasta? Chinese takeout? Greek diners? Tacos? ← Tacos, Chinese takeout, and the Greek fare served most places are mostly vastly American takes on what you would find in Mexico, China (or Chinatown for that matter), or Greece.

Are you suggesting that all New Yorkers have embraced ethnic food? Then why are their chain restaurants pepped throughout all five Burroughs? I agree that exposure and acceptance of other food cultures is regional, but it it also true that most Americans are not eating authentic Thai, Chinese, and Italian food, the latter especially in NYC outside of some fine dining establishments. Also most Americans do not live in cosmopolitan cities; most live in suburbs,and a tour of the restaurant selections in most American suburbs will give you a pretty accurate impression of what people are eating. I would guess that if one went out to LI and peered into shopping carts that they would see a lot of cheese food, iceberg lettuce and white bread. One of my students commented recently that they went to "fancy" restaurant at the beach and being served a salad that contained scary looking greens, but one of the last times I was in NYC I overheard a guy from Brooklyn speaking of his unwillingness to even try sushi. I am not trying to make a blanket statement here, but to suggest that many Americans and weary of the unfamiliar.

I echo much of what has just been said primarily that you need to test drive some knifes before you buy. I recently tired a 10" shun and loved it, although it was a bit on the heavy side. I had a small set of Henckels Four Stars, which are great for people who like a larger plastic handle. The MAC Superior santoku is super sharp, affordable, and has a nice handle, although it is a bit light. If you are going with one all purpose knife a good Japanese gyuto or santoku is probably the way to go. My folks have Wusthofs which I think are a little nicer than my departed Henckels. The old Sabatiers that I currently use are great, but I have heard that some brands have slipped in quality, and for most home cooks the Au Carbone might be hard to maintain, in my opinion.

One cannot discount the restoration of the monarchy in England as having an effect on the perceptions of French food as more desirable fare for the aristocracy. This trickled down to the emerging affluent middle class in the works of folks like Menon, Carter, Dalrymple, Verral, etc. Even Glasse, through all of her Franco bashing, included scores of French influenced dishes in The Art of Cookery. This influence was lost, I surmise, during a Victorian reaction to France's dissolution of their nobility. French cooking had not taken root in the U.S. firmly enough to survive the revolution and the conservatism and jingoism that followed. The point in your piece is well taken, we must not paint with such broad strokes, but even today few speak of British food outside of Britain. Likewise America, although becoming aware of other food cultures and our better traditions, there is still an attitude of xenophobia when it comes to the unfamiliar. There may be historical reasons for this, but there may also be cultural reasons why some countries, and more people within those countries, take their culinary traditions and the refinement thereof more seriously.

Duck fat is slightly higher in saturated in fat. I have never has goose foie gras, but I find the fresh liver a little stronger. Duck foie gras is most available in this country. Tinned foie gras is good on toast, and I especially like some French brands I have had (we are having some tonight - Labeyrie is good), but it is not the same experience as well sauteed fresh. Some French people do make their own, but good tinned foie gras is readily available. Foie gras in its fresh form, in my opinion, is best seared on both sides. It can then become part of a salad (on top), eaten on toast points, sauced with mushrooms, port, etc. I generally think of it as a starter and like it with a sweeter wine like Sauterne or Monbazillac.

Who would have thought that there were hand wringing "fat cats" in New York who have a problem with two tablespoons of crisco in a pie crust in the first place? But, here ya have it. Not being able to enforce regulations has never stopped bureaucrat's from creating new ones. It is called "budgeting for next year" and those additional dollars have to come from somewhere, and be justified somehow. Special interests also have budgets to defend, and have to show concrete results to donors. I am a proposal writer for government contracts in my spare time. Interesting work, and an amazing way to gain insight into the mentality of a typical civil service worker (contracting officers in my case) - you wouldn't believe. ← Bureaucrats rarely make up their own rules only procedures, elected officials usually make the rules. ← Tell that to the unelected panel that banned trans fats in NYC. ← Point taken, but that is why I said usually. I know it is not the same thing, but these boards are usually appointed by elected officials.

Who would have thought that there were hand wringing "fat cats" in New York who have a problem with two tablespoons of crisco in a pie crust in the first place? But, here ya have it. Not being able to enforce regulations has never stopped bureaucrat's from creating new ones. It is called "budgeting for next year" and those additional dollars have to come from somewhere, and be justified somehow. Special interests also have budgets to defend, and have to show concrete results to donors. I am a proposal writer for government contracts in my spare time. Interesting work, and an amazing way to gain insight into the mentality of a typical civil service worker (contracting officers in my case) - you wouldn't believe. ← Bureaucrats rarely make up their own rules only procedures, elected officials usually make the rules.

There are some "freedom from" and "freedom to" issues here as well. We should be free to eat what we want so long as the production does not destroy a shared environment or another's private property, violate accepted ethical standards, etc. However, we should have a freedom from not knowing what we are eating, in what quantity, and what the deleterious health effects might be. The more slippery freedom from concerns higher heath care costs and lower productivity that may result from cardiovascular disease and obesity. At the very least I am with the folks who advocate (in my mind aggressive) labeling and education. I am, however, dubious that there are some hand ringing "fat cats" who are sitting in a back room somewhere dreaming or more regulations (most bureaucrats can't handle enforcing the regulations as they currently exist), although annecros's point is well taken concerning special interests who have a wide range of motives and varying qualities of verifiable evidence to support their positions.

A gas range, really any gas range would do. Could someone please call my landlord...........

What you are asking is simply: are there gene-environment interactions, and the answer is emphatically yes. There are whole journals devoted to this subject. Genetic differences between individuals have major effects on how individuals respond to all types of things: food, drugs, pathogens. One example of this, as it relates specifically to fat metabolism, is the so-called Milano variant of the apolipoprotein AI gene, which appears to enhance the normal beneficial effect of HDL. In fact, recombinantly produced doses of this gene could end up being used a gene therapy for atherosclerosis. See this. ← I am guessing that low levels of HDL were due to a predominance of animal fat (which I think is more dominant in Northern Italy, please correct me if I am wrong) and not olive oil. Thanks for the link; I am learning a lot from this thread. It also raises many other, as yet unanswered questions (perhaps), like do animals part of the world eat things that produce ApoAI Milano in their flesh and fat, and does this over time, within an isolated gene pool, create a resistance to saturates fat in human consumers? Or, does simply having a diet of these specific animal fats over a period of years build a resistance?