NYC Mike
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Posts posted by NYC Mike
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What a great gift!! We use it constantly and love everything we have tried so far! We will join in!
The only peeve I've developed with Italian cookbooks is that I wished they included a regional index!! This way I could know where a particular dish may have originated from if it isn't in the title or subtext and then I could use it more often in the Italy regional monthly cookoffs!
-Mike
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Wham, Pow, you aren't kidding Abra!! Your pie looks amazing and you make it look and sound easy!
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We've been wondering how race factors into the food culture of the south especially considering the very strong slave influences. What we have found so far in the few "native" peope we have met is that the food itself seems transcends race, it is more part of a shared experience that goes back many generations. So in that regards geographical history or American history of the south seems to be the best qualifier.
I'll agree with an above poster about racism being alive and well in the south, as anywhere else in the US. But, funny enough my hispanic wife experiences it for the most part from transplants (which make up the majority in my area it seems), the native people in general have made moving down here socially wonderful. :-)
Reminds me of something my friend who was born and raised in Agusta once told me when describing the difference between north and south. In NYC we are taught in school about "The Civil War". When I mentioned this to my friend he laughed and said "we don't call it that, there was nothing Civil about that war."
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haha! That is very funny! Thanks!
My wife and I reorganized the pantry yesterday and realized we have 4 different bags of different corn meals and 2 boxes of grits. We LOLed pretty hard.
mike
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Kevin,
I've dropped almost completly out of italy, between work and my new found love of Southern Food I can't find time to cook! I don't know how my wife does it!!
The New Year will bring me much more time, I do hope these threads continue on until the regions are completed and hopefully beyond perhaps in the form of favorite regions (I know I wanna go back to Rome again!)
On a different note, my very first dish cooked solo was part of this thread and learning how to cook was my top 06' resolution. Thanks to everyone on this thread for your help and inspiration over the year. I can say with pride that I can cook!
Happy Holidays and Happy New Year!
Emilia-Romagna oh my what have I missed! Everything looks amazing!
-Mike
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It seems like forever since I’ve been home with more than 5 minutes of free time. I think I finally found the one downside to us moving south; my territory is geographically larger which means I have been traveling a lot more!! Finally, I am on vacation for the year and I can sit back and enjoy my guilty pleasure of EG again!
This post is WAY out dated but we enjoyed it so much that we wanted to still share. (the time delay between the meal and my post can give you an idea how little I’ve seen home
) In honor on my family’s first annual Alpharetta Thanksgiving we wanted to do a 100% Southern inspired menu. As usual we were not disappointed. In almost all cases we stuck with the recipes to the letter and most were things we were trying for the very first time.The pics just don't do it justice.
It was just the 5 of us so we skipped soups, starters etc. None of our NYC relatives were brave enough to make the trek down but the invitations are open and we expect them next year. As a side note, I really think its hilarious how our NY/New Englander friends and family view the south, its as if they envision this as an old episode of Green Acres or Mayberry or something. Very funny stuff.
For the majority of the meal we went right to The Gift of Southern Cooking. This book continues to amaze us, we are well over one dozen recipes tried and have not found a broken or unfavorable one yet. In our experience with cookbooks of all kinds this is very rare indeed. If you don’t own it, buy it with confidence.
Alright, here is the good stuff!
Roast Turkey with Giblet Gravy
We are now hard core fans of brining the poultry. I’ve modified the salt recommended by the book for brining in half and it still produces the most flavorful and moist finished product in every case (fried, baked, roasted you name it). All the seasoning used was new for us but we loved it all. The use of the thyme/citrus compound butter gave amazing flavor as did the addition of chicken stock to the pan. We find dried thyme is used everywhere in almost every dish to some degree. I wonder why that is, is it just grown in abundance in the south? We love it! The best turkey I’ve had!
The gravy was an intense experience. It solidified for me my thoughts on southern cooking in general in that it requires absolute commitment and interest. You can’t just read a recipe, smack a few things together and go watch TV while it takes care of itself. Much to my pleasure, I’ve found it requires a high degree of steady attention and love and rewards in kind with the good stuff!! This gravy was worth every hour of simmering and stirring. Again, the best I have ever had.
Cornbread Pecan Dressing
This is the only place we made modifications. I just could not do without pork sausage in my Thanksgiving Stuffing. We reduced the pecans by 75% for the children and added 2 pounds of pork sausage.
Corn Bread + Pork Fat + the Gravy = Heaven.
We clearly see the difference now between “Corn Bread” and corn bread with sugar or “Corn Cake”. I can now say that until we moved down here and made it ourselves we had never had real corn bread in the north. All places serve corn cake advertised as corn bread. The difference is astounding and while it took the kids four or six tries they have acquired the taste. If you love corn, you don’t really need the extra sugar in it. I’ve taken preference to having corn kernels in mine too.
Sweet Potato Casserole
This was a first for all of us. We had heard of it many times and with many variations, most notably with marshmallow toppings. We followed directly out of the book and used Ms. Lewis’ crumb crust topping. The only modification being that we left out the pecans again for the kids. This was as advertised, the perfect match for the turkey and dressing. We were worried that it was going to be too sweet but it really was not at all, there was a perfect balance between flavors. What a keeper recipe. We love how everything we have tried so far focuses on taking high quality naturally produced ingredients and doing very little to them in order to bring out the amazing natural flavor.
We then rounded the plates up with fresh peas and corn, mashed white potatoes for my daughter, store bought rolls and cranberry sauce.
We also made a slew of pies for teachers and neighbors. The two we kept for ourselves for Thanksgiving were Leah Chase’s Sweet Potato Pie I found on EG and a pumpkin pie. I’d had sweet potato pie before but not like her recipe it was amazing.
Washed the whole thing down with some sweet tea which I have to say I've become very hooked on. I've tried a few difference recipes but like the one in the book, minus the mint...im not a real big mint fan.
mike
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Lan4dawg,
I am LMAO right now so hard. We have already experienced sooooooo many of these things, great primer!
-mike
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WOW Anna! Absolutly gorgeous!
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NYC Mike,
Your okra looked wonderful and I think it is great you are being so open minded about it. I love okra. growing up, my mother had to stop buying pickled okra because it was not cheap and I would eat the whole jar in one sitting. It became a special occasion treat (what?! you didn't know pickled okra was special occasion food/).
My favorite way to eat okra is boiled. As others have rightly said, it is important to buy fresh, smallish okra. Also, if you avoid cutting it before boiling it, it will not be ropey(sp?), which is the term used to describe the sliminess it can acquire. No cutting=minimal slime.
Those are great tips. Looking back at my pics the okra we purchased could easily be catogorized as very large, as big as my hand at least!! Ropey! I wouldn't have said that at first blush but yes my okra last night were quite ropey.
-mike
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Or "Yankee Does GRITS" or something along those lines, complementing your thread devoted to cultural anthropology? Then all other outsiders could join in, coached by the experts.
This sounds really good!! We are trying to take that tact with the meals we make. We put the laptop on the table during dinner last night and listened to 6 or 7 of the oral history peices on the tamale trail website as we ate and talked with the children. It was a lot of fun!
Also, glad to see you've an open mind about okra.I do indeed, my wife and newly added to the club daughter love it. It is deceptively mouth filling if that makes sense, I need to wrap my head around that feeling.
There is a tomato and okra stir fry side dish that we will try very soon....and what dosen't taste better fried!?
-mike
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Great reading thanks for the pointer, that pear salad looks good!
I don't usually read the AJC but is that a regular column of his or is that Southern Recipe Restoration Project? If so I may have to look into it!
-mike
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Cross posting here cause Tamales are goooood!
In browsing the Southern Food Culture topics we happened along a topic by Mayhaw Man about the Mississippi Delta and its tamale culture. You can see it here SFA Tamale Trail Website is now serving, All Tamales, all the time!!. Eating the trail will be a good excuse for a 3-day weekend after the new year.
We used the recipe from the website Mississippi Delta Tamales.
One batch with chicken served with rice and red beans and a second batch with pork served with scalloped tomatoes and roasted okra.
-mike
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Had a great couple of days of cooking. I'm not sure where to put food we make that isn't Miss Lewis' but still have it be in this forum but for now hope she won't mind.
In browsing the Southern Food Culture topics we happened along a topic by Mayhaw Man about the Mississippi Delta and its tamale culture. You can see it here SFA Tamale Trail Website is now serving, All Tamales, all the time!. Eating the trail will be a good excuse for a 3-day weekend after the new year.
We used the recipe from the website Mississippi Delta Tamales.
The first night we made a small batch using some leftover chicken we had laying around from making some more of Scott Peacock's chicken stock.
Served with red beans and rice.
Last night we made a much bigger batch to share with neighbors, friends and school teachers (much better than an apple say my oldest boy
) In both batches we used Maseca Masa mix since we had a bag on hand, shortening in place of lard and all were wrapped in corn husks. Here is about a quarter of what we made. 
We served the pork tamales with the Scalloped Tomatoes and Roasted Okra from "The Gift of Southern Cooking" book. My wife, being from the Dominican Republic had eaten okra from childhood since it grows locally there. I on the other hand had only ever seen an okra before. I'll say this, the jury is still out, the aroma and flavor are very good, so is the first textural experience when you crunch into it, what comes next may be an aquired taste! We will look to make it every way under the sun before I decide and my wife loves it so it will be back.
Washed the whole lot down with a nice pitcher of sweet tea.
For Dessert we made the Apple Crisp from the book served with vanilla ice cream and coffee was a perfect end to a great meal.
-Mike
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As far as "Deep South" I think you can concentrate on Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Tennesee. Remembering that south Louisiana, while part of the "Deep South" does not equal southern food. My guess is you are looking for BBQ, fried chicken, greens, and sweet potato pie instead of jambalaya. Although good examples of all of those dishes can be found in south Louisiana.
At our uneducated first glance I think we are looking at BBQ, Soul Food (if that is correct terminology for Southern/chicken, greens, corn bread etc), Cajun, Creole and any other little surprises we can find along the way. All of the above being "Southern" in origin although very different from each other in most other respects.
Best example I can give of a little surprise is the Miss. Delta Tamale Trail. For us that association has always been with Mexican food but based on history it is also remarkably "Southern". Fun for us, I'm having tamales for dinner tonight!
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For example, most southerners would not hesitate to tell you that they can tell the difference in a Southern Accent from state to state. I can detect a difference between my home state of Georgia (Southwest Georgia to be exact), Alabama, Gulf area Florida, Central and Southern Florida, Tennessee and the Carolinas. Lousiana, Texas, and Virginia stick out like a sore thumb to me. KIN-TUKKY is very idoisyncratic. Not just accents, but word usage as well.
This is so very true. I once worked for a guy who grew up an Army brat, ask him where he was from and he would tell you "from nowhere". He had an amazing talent of being able to pinpoint, almost to the county where someone was from based on their voice.
There's no way to say, in the terms of food or culture, that any state, with the exception of the "Deep South" states that stand without controversy, is or is not "southern". Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia, and Tennessee are without a doubt included. How far out you want to stretch those borders depends on what you are looking for. Southern accents span a lot of ground, but the culinary traditions and habits vary even within states.This is an interesting distinction that has come up a few times above. What qualifies the "Deep South" from "South"?
Andrea and I both agree that a tighter and smaller playground area would be good for us in order to really focus our exploration while attempting to learn what is and isn't "Authentic".
-mike
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Daniel, awesome looking meal and thanks for the book review.
We have been "Cooking to Honor Edna Lewis" here and I have been looking at her books wondering which to get next....you just helped me make up my mind!
-mike
ps. why is there no drool emote?
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Nice Soup Kevin!
A few months back I bought a lot of 40 cookbooks on ebay for $100. Aside from the assorted "Use only your blender" cookbooks were a few real gems. One of them is "Food alla Florentine" by Naomi Barry and Beppe Bellini the book is geared to entertaining and arranged in menus, the recipes look great so I can't wait to try!
-Mike
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All of that being said I would suggest that "the South" and b/c this is on e-Gullet I am going to assume we are talking Southern food as opposed to other "Southernisms"--and this is fr/ a Southern boys' perspective--is any area that employed slaves (not necessarily for cotton but also rice, indigo, &c) and therefore found much of its food influenced by not only what was available but also fr/ an African (read slave) style of cooking and such influence lasts to this day in its regional dishes is "Southern".
Lan4dawg, this goes a long way in confirming the way Andrea and I were originally looking at the geography. We originally steered clear of it because we thought it only provided definition for "soul food" and didn't include Cajun or Creole for example. On closer inspection of Louisiana (using that same example) it does in fact match, the food is somewhat different because the origin of the slaves and conditions that they lived in were different.
So then, does the war between the states have little to do with our answer except as a point of reference? I mean, was the culinary culture in place long before the war?
As for my original post---"rat trap cheese" can be found any where in the US and is more than likely fr/ Wisconsin (at least now). Any type of strong hoop cheddar was called "rat trap" b/c it was smelly enough to attract rats to the traps. I have no idea if this is specifically Southern but that was how we referred to any strong hoop cheese when I was young as that is what the Rev called it.That is very funny. Boy, you got me one good! If I had a nickel for how many minutes I searched Google to find a recipe for IT. I think I just went snipe hunting.
Now that begs the question: is the food "Southern" or is it the terminology?but could there be a agreed upon spirit to what defines Southern food?From a fresh off the bus Yankee perspective I would say the food is most absolutly "Southern". In my very limited experience the preparations, techniques and flavor combinations are amazingly unique. The ingredients are based on what is local, fresh and seasonally available in the region. Additionally, the recipes we have tried all require something of the cook in the way of commitment and attention unlike many other food we have cooked. You must want to do it, want to love to do it, fall asleep at the wheel at your own (and your dinner's) peril. Perhaps dramatic but I think correct nonetheless.
Menon, your quote is the final peice of what we find wonderful about the food, there is a feel good quality about cooking, eating and sharing it. My wife cut a few hunks off our last apple cake and shared it with a couple of houses near us and now we have this weekly plate exchange going and new friends. In NYC a good next door neighbor is one who keeps to himself and keeps his music down.
Unfortunatly for the eductional part for us it was hard to put a fence around that feeling.
-Mike
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Unfortunatly most cooking jobs in NYC don't even pay a living wage, I don't imagine there are any internships that do.
-mike
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What is that all that similar between LA and NC? I think there is as much diversity in "Southern" cuisine as there is any other region. I personally would find it hard to essentialize southern food.Mike: Doesn't this remind you of some of the discussions over in the regional cooking threads in the Italian forum? That is, in terms of diversity within a single culture whose parts share traits.
It reminds me exactly of what's been going on in the Italy forums since Kevin did his year long tour. To say "Italian" food isn't enough by a longshot, I never use that term anymore, even saying "Northern" or "Southern" isn't enough. It may be one country name but drive an hour in any direction and the culinary landscape changes completly based on any number of factors.
This is one of the things that interests us about the South, it has that wide ranging and unexact diversity. I expect that The Junior League cookbook in Atlanta is going to be different that the one from Valdosta and different from Macon or Augusta and we haven't even left Georgia yet.
-mike
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Thanks folks!
Let's see if I have the consensus right:
North & South Carolina
Mississippi
Florida
Alabama
Georgia
Louisiana
Virginia
Arkansaw
Tennesee
Texas, Missouri are marginal along the borders but for the most part not?
What about Kentucky?
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With respect to culture and cuisine, I see some continuity in the swath of land that starts in Virginia, goes down the coast, cuts across the top of Florida and ends in Louisiana. This would encompass Virghinia, Kentucky, North and South Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and the top of Florida. States like Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico, etc. seem more "Southwest" than "South" to me from a cultural and culinary standpoint.
Texas was really the state that got me scratching my head initially on the southwest side and W. Virginia on the northeast side. Cajun and Creole food is clearly of the "south" but what about TexMex?
To tie this to food: In the South, people feel joy in being able to feed people and feed them well. It is not necessary to know the people you are feeding. It is enough to know that they came to your table hungry and you were able to provide them with nourishment of both the body, and maybe, the spirit.Ain't that the absolute beauty of it right there.
-Mike
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Hi All,
I think we (me and my wife Andrea) first realized how little we know about "Southern" food when EGs very own Lan4Dawg replied with this quote to our first biscuit attempt:
now you serve those along side some pork brains and mixed up "cackle berries", country ham, red eye gravy, rat trap cheese, muscadine preserves, saw mill gravy, and greased collards and you have your self a break fast!Our first reaction was
. But anything with a name like "rat trap cheese" was sure to peak my interest! Since then we have dipped our pinky toe in the water here and we really want to continue to delve into Southern Culture and its food.In "The Gift of Southern Cooking" Scott Peacock makes a comment that made us ask y'all this question.
...the South is not one place, but many little worlds unto themselves."Help us wrap a geographical fence around the "South" please. We figure if we can start understanding and knowing the broad universe it will be easier for us to move around within it, experiencing and learning as we go.
Thanks!
-Mike
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Sorry about no pics to share this time, the dinner portion just wasn't photogenic
and breakfast was gone way to fast to remember.We had some poached chicken left over from when we made the Chicken Soup so we had "breakfast for supper" and made the Chicken Hash with Corn Griddle Cakes from the book. To those I added a few over easy and some milk gravy. It was really, really good, the hash especially was a standout and a whole lot better tasting than it looked!
For breakfast we made Miss Lewis' Buttermilk Pancakes. We've tried all sorts of different buttermilk pancake recipes and usually we prefer one that fluff up and become very cake like due to the addition of beaten egg whites. These were not like that at all, quite the opposite, they were more creamy and custard like in texture, amazing to eat. I may have to review my cake like texture preferences!
-mike
Help Me Define the "South"
in Southeast: Dining
Posted
I agree with you 100% re: the southern stereotype and where it needs to be put. Essentially, that was the point I was trying to make. Northerners, including my NYC family have this very ABC Mini-Series impression of "The South" which couldn't be more inaccurate. What I meant to say (after re-reading myself I wasn't sure if it came out this way) is that there is no more racism in the South than anywhere else in the world (being an interacial family we speak from experience) and to the contrary the people we have met in Georgia that have generational roots here are some of the nicest and open people we have ever met.
Never before have we met a "people" who are so interested in knowing each other on such a deep and personal level and its been wonderful. I've said this before, in NYC, a good neighbor is the one you never hear and never know of.
I think the food culture itself lends itself to this "get to know you" vibe or aura or what you'll call it. Its almost like a slow walk, or the very opposite of the US fast food culture.
As for greens, I've only eaten them in a restaurant. We hope to brave making them ourselves very soon, if only to try and make pot liker. As for cornbread, my breakfast today was it in a bowl of milk, it was perfect.