ulterior epicure

Agreed - but what does that have to do with the restaurant industry? Your example exactly proves my point - if it's true in other industries, then it can be (and I think it is) true in the restaurant industry. Service is service... period. You link it with an "incentive," you'll generally get better service across the board. I guess we'll just have to "agree to disagree" on this one, Bux.

... and you may certainly let the restaurant/server know that - not only by being vocal with the management, but in your tip as well. Teamwork - yes, perhaps, service, I'm still not convinced. I've worked on the service side of industry. While competition and rivalry does exist, I've found that to the contrary, servers are generally very team-work oriented - each knows (or quickly learns) that without each other's support, they can't operate successfully alone. If anything, I think the "back of the kitchen" is indeed more united than most might expect/suspect. Especially, if you're at a high-end establishment, the management won't (shouldn't) tolerate any "cattiness." One bad apple can spoil the bushel, but usually, at well-run places, they're gone before they can do much harm. .... perhaps... perhaps... and if that is the case, then i feel that i should have the right to not pay for the service - which really, at some places (depending on how bad the service is), can be non-existent! agreed!

MobyP. [Edited for mistake] I'm a little confused - Ducasse doesn't seem to have the Danko set-up from the website - you either choose a la carte, or from his two tastings... there would be a price difference depending on which and how many a la carte items you choose. At Danko's - if you choose 5 courses from the "a la carte," (which is not really a la carte in the traditional sense) and you pay the same price as the 5-course tasting - not so at Ducassse (at least, from what I see). U.E.

And that's why you generally get CRAP service in France... IMHO. ... I don't know how you tip. Generally, I agree, but, I do think it adds an incentive for the server to 'go the extra mile.' Also, if I'm really dissatisfied with the service, I am at liberty express this. I think it's only fair. Have you ever worked as a server? The psychology is there... Maybe so, but it's still the diner's choice whether or not to order... In my opinion, Keller's decision is the beginning of snotty service in the United States... U.E.

Re: Tasting Menus... ...here's a thought... Gary Danko's in Frisco has this set-up: you choose 5 courses from the "a la carte" for $81 (you can also chose less for lesser price), or you can go with his 5-course tasting menu. Presumably, if the tasting menu serves as a showcase of, or 'highlights,' the chef's culinary dexterity, then it is up to the diner to choose, without regard to price as to which experience they want... I doubt the European chefs would be amenable to that... have any of you seen a similar set-up in France? U.E. *Edited for grammar.

malacintana. sorry, but i actually thought that dieter mullers, despite the AWESOME food, was rather lacking in decor. i found the dining room kind of frumpy - with round casino brass bannisters running around the terrace of the upper deck and decidedly fake ivy hedging... as for other german three stars - anyone have any opinions about heinz winkler, sonnora or im schiffen? recent experiences? u.e.

Tart Tatin. Thanks for steering us clear! U.E.

John... you've thought of everything! Thanks! U.E.

...ahhhh yes, that would be my hope too. But, it's sort of like taking a swim, no? No matter how brave your body, if your mind has the slightest hesitation about getting in, then it becomes a matter of either "plunge right in" and take the shock for immediate acclimation and enjoy your swim, OR slowly creep your way down the steps, acclimating at each level - in which case, the pent-up breath and fear of "cold shock" precludes any enjoyment of the experience. I guess the only problem with this analogy is that whereas in swimming, most of us know that you're almos assured a nice swim after your body gets acclimated... whereas at a restaurant, you could just be in for wet, cold and nasty experience on the second go... Re: second-time visits - I guess the only way to do it is to just to take the plunge... huh? (like most things in life) U.E.

John. Re: Senderens - reservations suggested - for a Sunday lunch? Don't want to end up with "tapas and sushi" at the bar... U.E.

....Mmmmm... A thought just occurred to me (actually, it happened a while back, but the thought just occurred to me to post it)... The Sunday dining stipulation aside, what would be wrong with going back to Carre des Feuillants, which was a pretty good experience... but then the thought occurred: 1. I wouldn't get to try another restaurant, AND, MOREOVER... 2. What if the second trip RUINS it? Has anyone else ever had this experience/fear? I actually don't really care that much about C.d.F.... really, the thought had occurred to me regarding one of my best European dining experiences - Obauer in Werfen, Austria, where I had a STUNNING eight-course meal. I toyed with the idea of returning to Obauer as my last hurrah on the continent before moving on in my travels... but my hopes were quickly dashed when I was informed that it would be closed during my last days... and then I thought to myself - maybe it's for the better - that way, my STUNNING meal at Obauer would always be STUNNING. I parlayed this thought to my upcoming Paris trip... ...just a thought. Would love to hear yours. U.E.

Well, it would still be on the list if it weren't for the fact that I may be limited to Sunday dining... Good suggestion on double checking on the set menu offerings on the weekend. Astrance's lunch menu is listed at 70 Euros... that's well within my budget... U.E.

paulbrussel. I'm in a right quick quandry. I failed to get reservations at De Librije (I got lazy and sat too long) So, I'm considering the following options: 1. Parkheuvel 2. de Bokkedoorns 3. Vermeer (I think it was demoted to 1 star?) Any news as of late. I like more modern/nouveau - but I also like to be full after paying a lot of money... so value for price is also a consideration. Just to give you an idea of my tastes: 1. I LOVED LOVED LOVED Oud Sluis. 2. Was really rather unimpressed with Beluga. Thanks! U.E. UPDATE: called De Librije again hoping for a cancellation - to no avail... so I've decided to go to de Bokkedoorns. Will update upon return.

Yeah... it does certainly seem that way! John Talbott did mention (correct me if I'm wrong, John) that Senderens is open on Sundays as well. U.E.

Yes, on this trip, I'd like to keep the budget a little more modest, but really, I don't think that Le Bristol and L'Astrance would be that different? I know Bristol's 3-course lunch is at 75E, unless L'Astrance is below 60E, I don't think it'd be that much of a step... As for my schedule... there may be a slight "SNAFU" - J. Talbott encouraged me to send this over the forum: I may only have Sunday lunch... as for the multi-starred Parisian spots - that leaves, to my knowledge, Le Bristol and Le Cinq. We know how I stand on Le Cinq... 1. Any other suggestions? 2. Pros/cons on Sunday dining in fine restaurants? Thanks everyone. U.E.

I know it's not a bistro... but does anyone have any comments on whether Table JR's star is "riding on the coat tails" of a named chef? I haven't been to either Aux Lyonnaise or Table JR, so I really can't say.

Agreed! I had this dish, or a variation of it. Looking back at my notes - it was a "Nine Herb Tortellini in Porcini cream, roasted tomatoes and walnuts. While I certainly wouldn't have demoted to Grimes' level, I do remember envying (very much) my friend's Reblochon and Fontina Agnolotti with ovoli - mine just tasted bland in comparison... but by no means "trattoria..." It was just a passing curiosity. Right... that's what I meant to say. Papiette of Sea Bass... geez, I'm really showing my "greeness."

In France, I agree... elswhere... not necessarily. U.E.

I'll take your word for it - you seem much more in the know about Daniel than I. Not to make anyone uncomfortable... but I think I might still have been in grammar school when the book was being written... Is that his "fish in potato papillote? Bux, you and I have "talked" briefly on that... I didn't appreciate it for what it's worth before that... still, not my style. That's what I heard... ...this is what I was hoping to hear more about. Thanks Bux!

That does sound like a lot of food - especially for lunch...

vinobiondo. thanks for the pics! everything looks great - i'm especially fond of game meats - and lamb is very tempting... did you do the "lunch" menu at both? u.e.

....Ahh, but Brenner wrote the book after Daniel had been demoted to three stars... albeit, he was able to regain it again under Grimes. But, Bruni has yet to comment... By the way, where's Alex Lee now? U.E.

Right - so add L'Astrance to my list of candidates... Sigh... U.E.

Perhaps better suited for another forum - but personally, I wasn't all that impressed with Alinea. I thought it was bit too stilted - even for me (the lover of all things not-seen-before). It was after my meal at Alinea that discovered a personal limited patience for the "let's see how much gaping, gawking and gasping we can get from the diner" experience. At least, that's what my impression was. Food presented on a wire or hanging from odd surgical-looking contraptions don't necesesarily do it for me if the food isn't genuinely good. I found Moto to be much more of a pleasant experience - it was more theatrical in a good way, that is, I felt more involved and invested in the experience. Alinea was more of a sit-back-and-get-ready-to-be-stunned experience... That being said, I don't think that Gagniere is on for this trip - but still toying with Astrance, Le Meurice, Le Bristol, Pre Catalan and Grand Vefour for this round... geez, I just might have to plan another trip before Christmas rolls around. U.E.

I only have the 2005 "Main Cities of Europe" Guide Rouge, is the 'espoir' denoted only in the France Guide? U.E.