doronin

After reading few bread books where authors explained their way of rounding and shaping, I still have few unclear points. First, what is the actual difference in technique between rounding and shaping - first is actually preliminary shaping, but, say, after rounding into boule my bread looks already pretty round - so how should I proceed with final shaping? Second, what are the most successful techniques of shaping in basic forms while retaining as much gas as possible - please, share your findings. Third, how to seal a boule properly? As I have some flour under the loaf to prevent sticking to the bench, when I'm trying to seal the loaf, that flour doesn't allow sides of the dough to stick to each other; another side effect is that some of that raw flour remains inside of the seal is, i.e. goes into the loaf. Should I use less or no flour at this stage?

Just curious, how should Dan's method of intermittent kneading be adjusted for whole wheat flour, and for blend with 50% of whole rye?

That is their Marketplace, not Amazon itself - they have outrageous intl shipping rates...

It's not available from amazon.com...

Hi piazzola, Am I correct that you wait until a crust is formed before you remove the paper from under the loaf? BTW, can't parchment paper affect the crust negatively?

Darcie - thanks for the book recommendation, I have read that one as well as... 4 other, also very good ones. Some of them explain basics, many explain how to make that specific kind of bread, but I couldn't find any that explains generic ways to modify the recipe to make it softer, lighter, stiffer, denser - well the latest is the simplest option , etc. Jack - as I'm trying to understand their way to produce a sandwich bread, only this time I'm less concerned with big irregular holes, and more of pretty even crumb that has much more air then... bread. BTW, while it's just incomparable with artisan breads, it's still much better then Wonderbread and the like, I guess just due to the fact it's locally baked and contains little, if any, preservatives. Here comes something I don't get, few points from the above: - for softer bread we need a soft flour (low gluten) - for higher bread they use additives that strengthen gluten As both factors are pretty much mutually exclusive - low weak gluten vs. strong gluten, it's a mistery how do they manage to produce both soft and very light sandwich loaves. What must be the key factor here is extensibility of the dough - so the question is how do I increase the extensibility of the dough?

If the world was like this, you'd never need a... I like the idea to forget the "bad" words such as "cholesterol", unless this makes my doctor to remind me of this in emergency manner. In fact, there can't be a perfect diet. The more one's diet is restrictive, the more chances he/she will drop it on some stage. Any diet has some restrictions, and on any restriction there are people especially sensitive to it. For this particular diet there are people that sensitive to amount of food to eat - 1/3 portion will be heavy limitaiton for them, which will lead to frustration and eventually to leaving the diet. And, caused weight fluctuation may even be more harmful then forgetting the word "cholesterol".

Recently I walked in to a coffee shop that also serves sandwiches on the bread they bake on site. The loaves they make are classic very soft white sandwich bread - the loaves are huge, and... I'd even call them beautiful. No, I'm not thrilled by this kind of bread, which most of the time happens to be pretty tasteless, but I was always wondering what exactly makes that bread that extremelly light and soft? Special timing? Amount of yeast? Anything else? And vice versa - if one wanted to make his bread stiffer, what should be changed in the process?

Thanks all for sharing your findings! Dan - I highly appreciate your detailed reply. May I ask you to elaborate your technique of shaping boule for a wet dough? As for your question - I meant a situation when I leaved a shaped dough for a final rise on a bench: in order to get it into the oven, I have to lift it somehow, and transfer it onto the floured peel. So the question is what is the right way to lift the dough at this stage. If I just pull it up by hands... it tends to stretch unpredictably, and loses its shape...

Well... So, is it correct to assume that sugar-like looking product named "Pure Fructose" will actually contain close to 100%... fructose, regardless what it's made from: fruits or corn? BTW, as what I found why fructose is often perceived as "bad thing", is that even though it has a low GI, in big quantities it has serious negative effect on cardiovascular system - those big quantities are usually associated with tons of sweet fast food made with HFCS. I think a little fructose in my espresso won't hurt.

I was thinking to move to fructose, the pure one - not the corn syrup, mainly due to it's low GI. But I keep find strange claims that the product called fructose (the powdered sugar like substance), made from corn and is not 100% fructose, but crystallized HFCS with GI just as the regular sugar is. Where the truth is? Is it fructose, or "Fructose "?

How do you manage to handle very wet dough - please, share ideas and techniques. My specific difficulties are: - when I'm trying to invert the dough from a bowl or a banneton on to the workbench, it tends to stick to the bowl with all the undesirable consequences. Flouring of the bowl doesn't really help, as wet dough absorbs that flour, and then sticks. How do you cope? - when I'm inverting a wet dough from the banneton on to a peel, it actually falls, and thus deflates. How do you manage to do it? Hold the dough somehow while inverting the bowl? - Shaping of wet dough to boule... When I followed the shaping instructions from the well known books, those multiple folds seem to deflate the dough completely. What am I missing? - Transferring from a workbench to a peel (if proofed on a workbench) How to transfer the dough and not to ruin the loaf, considering it's very fragile? Thanks!!

My formula based on the Rustic Bread from the book by Jeffrey Hamelman, though I had to adjust water due to the fact I use whole flour. I used 13.7% protein organic whole wheat flour, finely ground; pinch of instant yeast, 70-80% water. Stiffer preferment, 50% of all flour, fermented overnight at the counter. Mixed in KitchenAid 3min on 1st and then 5-7min on 2nd speed. Temperature in the room was ~25-26C in spite of working A/C. I folded the dough twice, in 50-60 min intervals, resulting in almost 3 hours of the primary fermentation, then shaped, proofed for about 1.5h, and baked on a stone ~50min on 215C. No retarding. Oven was preheated to 275C (~528F) after I put there bread and water for steam I lowered the temperature to 215C... As for levain - I use instant yeast, haven't try sourdough yet, and in spite of a large amount of the preferment, there is no sour taste at all (I'd love to have some, but I guess this is Sourdough's territory)

Hmm... don't I? Although I use whole wheat flours, I find the taste of my bread a bit too bland, and this is after 30 min of autolyze (just flour and water), and the fact that 50% of flour went to 16hours preferment... Another thing is that my bread is kinda... firm - I can take almost paper thin slice, which I don't like, as I want it to be chewy and elastic. I thought 13.7% protein might cause it, but I also suspect it has something to do with insufficient fermentation. I'm looking for a texture similar (with whole wheat/yeast limitations) to the one in the Msk's post here: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=27633&st=90.

Hi All I used to make my bread with organic whole grain flours, which, by obvious reasons, do not contain the additives, including diastatic malt and ascorbic acid. While can I guess where I can get the latest , I'm in full darkness in regards to the diastatic malt sources. I live outside of North America, so King Arthur is not available to me. DIY method is not for me right now, as with 3 month old baby I have to restrict mysef from most of my DIY projects. I feel that my bread is underfermented, so I really want to try it. Does anyone know where possibly can I find it? Otherwise, is there any other product that contain the right enzymes, and could replace the malt in that respect? Thanks!! Dmitry.