Steve Klc

Iron Chef has been mentioned a few times and the little back and forth between Bux and Tommy is interesting. Misperceptions of what it means to be called "chef" even get in the way of discussing Iron Chef! Bux--I tend to agree entirely with your last post: "One was that it was more about entertainment than about cooking, in my opinion. The more important distinction was that it was not about what goes on in a restaurant where a real chef works as a leader of the team. Restaurant cooking is not spur of the minute creation for the most part. Very little of a chef's fame rests on creating dishes under the strictures of a competitive Iron Chef show. A restaurant chef works with a team he's selected and trained. Iron Chef is an interesting and entertaining show, but it is a very artificial kitchen in terms of where a restaurant chef does his business. We're off topic, but Iron Chef has more to do with cooking than it does with being a chef. Although the effect is to confuse creative cooking with being a chef, all of the contestants are chefs however." However--I'd take it a little further. From my perspective when I watch that show I see chefs--chefs who run their own restaurants, ran their own restaurants, or could most likely run their own restaurants if they chose to--and I usually see very talented chefs working, their speed and bench skills are displayed well and they, to an extent, do lead their team of assistants all the way through the broadcast, delegating tasks as any restaurant chef would, to accomplish their goal efficiently. This may be entertaining to watch but it is very much about being a chef, about creation and about cooking. And that cooking is not, necessarily, "spur of the moment creation." The chefs know in advance what the three possible main ingredients are--and they are fully aware of the equipment and pantry of ingredients available to them. If they are smart they have their entire menus planned for each of the possible three main ingredients and have planned their prep order and plating sequence for themselves and their assistants. Depending on how seriously they might want to prepare--there's no reason why they couldn't develop and test all their dishes (3 main ingredient options x 5 = 15 dishes) beforehand and even "practice" making their dishes in the timeframe of an hour. I am not the most total junkie of the show but I'd suspect the chefs only need to make adjustments on the fly (during taping) based on mistakes, equipment error or errant electrocution.

I've now caught up with this thread and would just like to add that the following mentioned or participating on this thread are all most certainly chefs: Basildog, Pepin, Emeril, joiei, Trotter, Ferran, Jean-Georges, jinmyo, Bourdain, Ripert, the corporate chef behind product development for Mrs. Paul, Keller, TGIFriday's corporate chef, whoever is behind the food served at any Colin Cowie style dinner party, whoever is supervising the kitchen of the guy grilling pizzas at Otto, invento, Fowke, Spencer, Flay, Morimoto, Peter B. Wolf, Michael, me, the feel-good Quiznos founding chef and any current Quiznos consulting chef, many "kitchen managers" disparaged by some on this thread (and F&B directors) were chefs at one time and/or still are. If I've left any chef off it is inadvertent, borne out of unfamiliarity and not a value judgement. We all are just not necessarily working as chefs according to the same definition. We're applying our culinary skills and training and experience but not necessarily in the same way as we once did or as someone reading along expects us to. In fact, accepting the diversity of this list might help define a more inclusive standard of what it can mean to be a chef or be called chef. Further threads could explore what it means to be a trained, talented, passionate, inspiring, successful, respected or certified chef. But those are value judgements, criteria to be applied to what should be, at least initially, an inclusive definition.

Stone--I have not read the entirety of this thread. I will try to catch up. But, when you say "But I think the point many people are trying to make, and the point I wanted to discuss when I started this, is that the title "Chef" does include a value judgment." I have to disagree, gently. There's not much value or judgement involved inherently. I tend to side most with Bux on this when he speaks of prejudice clouding our perception and with inventolux when he says "Respect for everyones position is the first step in anything professional." I also agree with the tenor and tone of posts by Chef Fowke and my "pastry cook" colleague Michael Laiskonis. Guess it's a good thing for us Malachi is in the middle of nowhere. The title "chef" seems to include misunderstanding and narrowness--to a degree tempered by that person's limited experience and awareness. If anything is connoted it stems from our inability as a culture to embrace fully how diverse chefs are. But I guess your point could be that that is in itself a value judgement, a poorly formed or erroneous one. Chef is multi-faceted like artist or designer or programmer or any number of titles that in and of itself do not connote or infer any value. Chef is not like M.D or J.D which is regulated or certified at some basic level of achievement or schooling which the public can look up in the dictionary. And I'd suspect that the chef developing sauces for Quiznos has a serious restaurant/hotel/foodservice track record behind him, is pulling down a six figure salary or the equivalent as a consultant and industry insider. It's not some punk 20 year old kid right out of the CIA. Most kids out of the CIA disappear down the foodservice pipeline of career disappointment, never to be heard from again and without a more practical or a more diverse college degree to fall back on to pursue a career outside foodservice. This Quiznos guy--and tons like him in many other corporate situations--are most certainly chefs--as Holly noted on page one of this thread "in fact a very smart chef - coming up with a 9-5 corporate gig, megabucks, full benefits, company car and fat expense account." Just because there aren't as many of these chefs around as there are chefs running restaurants--and that the media rarely highlights these chefs--doesn't mean they are not "chef." They're just not the typically perceived romantic, artiste or warrior-type chef personas. Which just adds up to more misunderstanding of what it means to be "chef." It also shouldn't come as a surprise that chefs morph into entertainers and personalities--and become more well-known as entertainers and personalities. When they do it doesn't mean their track record as a chef is wiped out. It means they made a choice, took a detour, just like anyone else. And if we somehow manage to overlook that a putz on TV also happens to oversee a restaurant that just got 3 stars from Grimes in the NY Times, that just supports my sense that the title chef connotes misunderstanding more so than any value judgement.

I guess I'm just spoiled by my Mac and hi-speed modem VM, none of that happens to me. I never get thrown back to the homepage, don't have to download a thing and click maybe five times total to see the 5 submenus. I kind of get swept up with the music and just move my cursor from box to box--the menu language just appears and the text changes all the way through without clicking--and imagine what it must be like surrounded by all that blue and white, not caring about time. There is a kind of serendipity to the site which perhaps appeals to the creative side in me. Would that real life always be this tranquil. But then, that's how I eat at Zaytinya--I order very few mezze at a time, then some more, then some more. So in a sense, the site mirrors my experience in the restaurant as a customer. Assessing restaurants, cuisine (and websites) are all tough because we all bring a different array of tools and experiences and preferences to the table (or screen). And that also explains why there are as many graphic and web designers out there as chefs (and eggplant dishes). Everyone has their own idea of good design and how things should be. I don't in the main share your critique of the site--I find it gorgeous, accurate, current, inviting and complete--but I still think perhaps I'm experiencing the site differently than you wrt browser, platform and connections. As far as the desserts, the sorbet has little bits of candied orange rind and that flan is indeed separate from the cake; it's the first thing spooned into the bowl, so it ends up under all the other elements.

Please, everything IS available. If the price is right. I fear you're jumbling a bunch of issues Blond007, perception, art, commerce, ego that don't directly translate to this Chef's Bite Back piece. Ultimately, everything is for sale, including one's time, and it's just a matter of putting a price on it and finding a market--or someone--willing to pay it. This includes very special, skilled, artistic and/or labor intensive work. The fact that such work couldn't be produced quickly or on demand as you say, is, frankly, irrelevant. That's why there would be a premium put on that work and why not just anyone could afford to pay that premium--or prioritize paying that premium. I'm speculating here, but I'm guessing the baker in this example is very gifted in salt dough displays or artistic bread work--practically a lost art and something wholly separate from cranking out great loaves of rustic bread that walk-in customers can take home or restaurants can buy wholesale. He has the training, skills and artistry to do that work--and do it well. Why begrudge someone the opportunity to reveal the depth and variety of his skills and by displaying work like this raise some awareness? I don't work in bread but from time to time I am commissioned to create special things for special clients--showpieces, sculptures--that are very labor intensive and require a high degree of artistic and technical skill--apart from whatever skills I'm able to reveal in my restaurant work or wedding cake work. Can everyone afford these special pieces? No. Do I have the time to do many of these or do them on demand? No. But these pieces--just like that seemingly unobtainable bread piece in that baker's shop in your example--raises awareness, expands the boundaries a little bit of how our work might be appreciated. It's also the first step toward restoring more of an artistic appreciation for what bread bakers and ice carvers and chocolatiers and pastry chefs are capable of doing. I can't know for sure how this bread baker handles discussion of these seemingly unobtainable artistic bread pieces--but if handled well, if discussed as the end result of passionate labor and dedication to craft--how could it not be seen as inspirational?

Last week I found myself parked along Columbus, Amsterdam, and in between say 78th and 82nd. In each and every parking space over the course of four days when I opened my iBook I (unintentionally, of course) found unsecure WiFi access, could check e-mail and get on eGullet for PM's.

L'Impero also picked up the Beard Best New Restaurant award this year. How did you like Heather Carlucci's desserts? Would you care to describe them?

Maybe there was a browser/connection issue when you looked VM? I just counted 62 mezze described on the site just as I remember them on the menu--including all of my favorite dishes and yes, the ones I tend to order again and again don't include eggplant--and that's not including entrees, sandwiches and desserts, which are also on the site. Specials don't seem to be online and neither does that spit-roasted weekend lamb.

I find rhubarbz very revealing and very compelling: "A chef may have great culinary ability and a restaurateur may have great intentions ... but far more often, they're not experienced marketers. And in this economic climate, if you're not a smart marketer, it's very hard to succeed." "We don't necessarily judge success by how long (for example) a client's restaurant is in business. A restaurant is a highly collaborative effort and its success or failure may be due to half a dozen elements - only one of which may be the lack of a branded presence in the marketplace." Some chefs and restaurateurs are lucky to have developed their own media contacts and network--with and without publicists--some younger chefs are fortunate to have come up through those situations and learned themselves. Other chefs seem like their own worst enemies. And what brig and invento have unintentionally revealed is that even the most established chefs like Trotter go out and beat the bushes, keep their name out there, seek exposure charitable or otherwise, like agreeing to slap their face on a glossy Hawaiian Vintage chocolate ad and there's really no need to try to peek behind the veil for some kind of altruistic motives or determine who contacted who first. Your actions in and out of the restaurant build your brand--gosh, even invento with his "I'm not hiring a publicist-word of mouth" philosophy is trying to distinguish himself in the media marketplace, promoting his nascent brand and engaging in media relations and public realtions on this very thread! Before he discovered eGullet remember the excited feeling you got reading about Patrice Demers talking about his restaurant Les Chevres and how they arrived at their philosophy, how they introduced us to their new chef--now an eGulleteer himself? He was sharing with friends here, yes, but that was media relations, was it not, that was the beginning of his (and Claude's) brand development, no? I believe it landed him a spot on that Food Network show about new restaurants opening. Grant Achatz was defining his brand here better than his publicist could--though you know other channels are being handled by her because, well, Grant just has so much time. None of it is sinister and as rhubarbz and Bux have said--someone has to do it whether you're on the phone or you engage a publicist externally or not--and it us usually collaborative in nature even if someone is on retainer. At some point, no matter how controlling your nature, even most control freak chefs realize they can't manage all this stuff themselves; and some even realize that there are designers and stylists and business planners and agents and publicists that know more about design and style and business and deals and media relations than they themselves do, so they hire them, work with them and it is win-win. What's that business adage--focus on your core, you stand to gain most by doing what you do best? I like to look at who chefs collaborate with, who they choose to work with (Thomas Keller reached out to Mark Furstenburg--what does that tell you even if you know nothing about bread?) and who they choose to work for them, from their photographers to vendors to publicists to... All that can help you navigate your way through the culinary thicket and it is a fact of life that you have to figure out how to navigate the culinary thicket. Sometimes that can happen without hiring a publicist if you can cultivate your own relationships with marketing and media types but then those types are not working for you and their loyalties are, well, somewhat divided and at least inherently conflicted. Sometimes as a chef doing good work is enough, sometimes not. But there is no doubt that publicists can and do play vital roles in the success of so many ventures and brands, in and out of New York. You think the food writers in NYC are setting up their own lunches at all the stylish places around town? Most are not. Most know precisely who to call. And as rhubarbz lays out, it's not just or even mainly issuing press releases. If you are ever lucky to sit on the other side of the fence, and write or hang around with some food writers, well, let's just say that many a helpful article in the media, especially involving name chefs, has been nudged along by your friendly publicist, and it may have begun with an offhand comment at a media dinner or luncheon, maybe muttered casually as an aside: "say, I heard you were working on a story about tobacco in desserts, you know, you should really try the brand new tobacco-infused creation by Pierre Reboul at Vong, which he coincidentally just put on the menu last night!" or "Have you tried that amazing warm white chocolate cake by Bill Yosses at Citarella--I think you'll find it unique compared to all the molten dark chocolate cakes around town!" And even Beard journalism award-winning articles have been given big assists by publicists. Good publicists are worth whatever retainers they are getting, so, too, are good photographers, writers, sous chefs, pastry chefs, web designers, beverage directors. We are all part of what the larger whole is--chef.

Google leche merengada and see what you come up with Spence! As in milk with meringue folded in--milk brought to a boil several times with lemon zest and cinnamon, allowed to cool, then a Swiss meringue folded in. I include some Sevarome stabilizer, cure it a bit and freeze in a batch freezer. It's a very nice ice cream, probably more technically an ice milk, but has the mouthfeel of something richer.

Yes, my desserts are there--if you and your husband (personally) only order two desserts, order the (more traditional) Basque cake with leche merengada ice cream and the (more progressive) Arroz con leche a la moderna. Do report back. The other somewhat progressive dessert--which also happens to be nonfat--is the Casta Diva gelee with mixed berry salad and lemon granite. Very nice as it melts, every spoonful will taste different and challenge your taste buds a bit, be sure to scoop up some of the gelee each time--which lines the bottom of the bowl: Casta Diva is this amazing, fragrant Spanish muscat-based dessert wine, which I infuse gently with a little vanilla. Enjoy. (Actually, which Yasmine, Gloria, Chris or Picasso infuses gently!)

Sorry in advance--rant coming. The other aspect to this Nectar story--which I find fascinating and has yet to be remarked upon--is that, according to Sietsema in his Post preview, the restaurant is owned by George Washington University. That backstory, that potentially forward-thinking, should be explored by someone somewhere. GWU has always had a very diverse business base. Small eclectic interesting creative restaurant--one of but a handful in DC which could stand on its own terms if dropped into NYC, let alone onto Clinton Street on the Lower East Side--alongside an Alias or Salt Bar or Chubo--and it is owned by a University. GWU! (And I'm a Hoya.) I can't tell you how many times I wondered what would happen if Georgetown University got behind some talented chef in town or behind some of its graduates who later went on to become chefs and set them up in one of their townhouse properties and said go ahead--be consummate professionals and be as creative as you'd like. Make us proud. What a media story--Georgetown rewrites definition of liberal arts graduate. GU owns practically all the properties on those blocks bordering its campus from 37th on out--why deal solely with the culinary dullness of the Tombs and 1789? Why bemoan the lack of serious restaurants in Georgetown and the inability of whichever Marriott spinoff company who holds their on-campus contract to execute interesting fine dining. Mark--do we know whether GWU owns the space and how Jarad came to be involved with GWU and this space? Is any owner an alum of GWU? Was this pitched to GWU or pitched by GWU? The closer I look, the more I find that is just a little extra special about this place and I hope it bodes well for even more small, personal, creative cooking in this city. If more restaurants like this continue to open up with "maxi-eclectic" wine lists, willing to do more than nod in the direction of dessert and dessert wine, we just might shake that nagging national perception of second tier food city status--with too many steak houses and franchises and usual suspects mailing it in, a Chinatown that never was, with our once vibrant diverse ethnic and cheap eats now homogenized in order to please our conservative suburban tastes and with our rash of dull American and not-so-"new-American" cooking readily accepted by too many complacent unadventurous palates. Rant over. Darren--let's have the report of your visit.

I went a few weeks ago, it's as good as it ever was, if not better, because Dan and Mike hired Pierre Reboul as pastry chef. He has a Pacojet and he knows how to use it. Their relationships with farmers and suppliers remains strong, the night I dined a farmer who had just dropped off a bag of arugula flowers was also eating at the bar. His flowers ended up on my cured salmon dish. I think their tasting menu remains a relative bargain pricewise for NYC. I've written elsewhere that I thought the petits fours tray Pierre sent out to us that night was the best I had ever had in the city and that includes Ducasse. Blue Hill is a gem and should still be on everyone's radar--especially if you favor their kind of a la minute saucing with clean direct flavors--my dishes that night had nice balances of acidity and fruit-forwardness.

No, though it can help your learning curve to work with one chocolate, work with it consistently and really figure out its personality. When you start combining different chocolates it might not handle the same way--but if you have a bowl of 120 degree chocolate couverture, and seed with new pistoles of another brand of chocolate couverture--it should work just fine. I've done that myself many times over the years.

What will be considered "great" will always depend on your frame of reference. How modern vs. how conservative are your culinary tastes on the high end? Also, if you're the type to appreciate elite French cooking (or elite Spanish cooking) just a little more than elite Italian cooking, as I "think" I am, in that case you might want to consider adding Cafe 15 in the Sofitel and Le Relais in Great Falls to this list. And if you care about desserts the best pastry chef of this bunch, and perhaps the best pastry chef in the city, is young Romain Renard of Cafe 15 and he works in a classically respectful French style.

Yes and no, respectively. I have a few hundred in the freezer at any given time, thaw before service; you can either hold some warm or zap in the microwave a la minute.

And that worked with how many of the cheeses? Who put together their list?

I agree with both of your sentiments completely.

My comment would be there are better restaurant experiences and more interesting things going on in the city than Kinkeads, at that price point and below. There are a few Kinkeads threads here that you can catch up on to see if it seems a good fit for you and your group.

In that time, Paula, has the journalistic aspect of your work changed much? Are you in a position now that you can write pretty much exactly what you want, how you want to, and have the confidence knowing someone will buy it? Or has your process, which does sound terribly romantic, had to evolve since you first were published? Have you had supportive relationships with editors? And would you mind sharing--very very generally--how much of your income is derived from books vs. print articles vs appearances and classes? And has that percentage changed at all as your career has evolved? I suspect that's been an adventure as well but don't want to assume.

One thing to keep in mind sinclair is that not all curd recipes are the same process--some are cooked gently over a water bath and some have enough acidity in the recipe that you can bring the mixture to a boil directly in a saucepan and not worry about over-cooking the eggs. When you play around with fruit substitutions it will likely be the acid percentage which changes--and depending on the fruit or the recipe you might--might--have a problem. But knowing this going in, you can figure out how to adapt.

Confectioner's sugar may or may not work but it isn't what you're looking for. It's a different animal. And you certainly won't find confectioners sugar without cornstarch where you shop. If you can't find superfine--which usually is in supermarkets in little plastic-wrapped 1 pound boxes--you might take granulated sugar (if Domino probably labelled "extra fine granulated") and put it in a cuisinart with the metal blade, whiz it around for a while and you will cut its particle size down closer to superfine. Should work as a substitution.

This thread has little to do with who or what is admirable Spencer--it's about whether chefs "have" to do things a certain way, any way, whether they "should" do things a certain way, any way and how we all can understand the chef/customer dynamic a little better--and this is an outgrowth of one letter a chef wrote to one restaurant critic, who saw some inherent sparks in using that letter, which was then expanded upon in a very good Washington Post article and led to this--a typically interesting and thought provoking eGullet thread. My personal opinion and assessment of Adria or Keller is really beside the point and you, typically, have no clue as to what I find admirable in the work of others. But that's also beside the point of this thread, I think. That's a distraction. What I think most people are trying to talk about, and why I tried to expand upon the Keller and Adria examples, since they were brought up already by you and others on this thread, is that there is a maturation process, a career arc and the perception of a chef which often collides with and creates ramifications for a diner's interpretation, expectation and assessment of a meal at the hand of said chef in his restaurant. This is a much larger discussion than a Gillian Clark or Carole Greenwood. It gets directly to the heart of the chef/diner relationship.

Speidec--I wouldn't take too much stock in any "plain fact" spouted off by anyone. In plain fact, thread topics which revolve around plain facts usually evolve into several thousand page views. If there's anything to come out of this thread--like most good threads on eGullet--it is that there are no absolutes. Take Shaw's last post about how craft and art co-exist in writing--it's very clear to me it's up to each individual writer to define his own metier, distinctiveness and merit within the marketplace. Same with chefs and chef/owners. There's the rub Spencer, I don't know if you've ever been a "chef and owner" of anything--certainly as a chef or pastry chef employee you take it up the patootie--but as an owner or partner like an Adria or Keller or countless other chefs and pastry chefs--you do get to define how you interact with the media, and how you form your relationships with your customers and your relationship with your cooking down to the very last drop. And every chef (or writer) "owner" does get to define for himself how he gives in and if he gives in--if he is a chef/owner as a writer owns his work before he turns it in or signs his contract--because he's answerable to himself and for himself. Yes every chef is answerable to the diner--but for me that relationship seems mostly defined by the chef's skills and personality--good or bad. It's up to each chef to deliver the message as to why he can or cannot, will or will not, accomodate an individual diner's wishes. And I can envision this happening in vastly different ways--some more reassuring and satisfying than others. Some chefs can pull it off, some can't. This is both Basildog's version of "if I'm eating the food of some artiste/chef it had better be damn good" and Russ Parsons' version of Keller worked long and hard to get to the point that he could say no if he felt like it. Spencer is certainly correct in that customers will not instantly, magically view you the way you want to be viewed or the way you view yourself, however--and this is the key lesson to take from a Keller or an Adria and which I think Spencer almost predictably misses out on: as a "chef/owner" you can shape how customers look at you, through your food, personality, savvy, actions, words, interviews, networking, relationships with media and other colleagues--you are paying the bills not cashing a paycheck--you're free to shape it through active creation of your persona--and all you have to do, like either the Keller or Adria example--is reach enough customers who don't view you as a tie-dye salesman as they come through the door, enough customers to keep your restaurant full and/or profitable. As Russ Parsons chimed in, that's what Keller has been building up to for his 30 years. That doesn't mean his is the only route to take or necessarily the route other chefs should model themselves on. Ironically, Gillian Clark just might be on her way to doing just that--creating a more distinctive persona for herself, gaining name recognition and keeping her restaurant more full! She's just re-drawn her line, as Shaw astutely realizes; she's a young chef and may re-draw it yet again in hindsight. Spencer has certainly shaped with his words how the rest of eGullet looks at him--now expand that out in the real world using an Adria or Keller as an example. Be they glorified tie-dye salesman? And where Adria has transcended Keller on the world stage, I think, is he has found a way to provoke extreme criticism of hmself and his cooking and still profit by those who misunderstand his food or his methods--all the while selling out his restaurant for the season within hours and being recognized in many lay and professional circles as the best chef in the world. Personally, I do think the most talented chefs bend over backwards to be accomodating or bend over backwards equally to explain why they can't accomodate a request. Either way, the chef and customer wins.

Kitty--is that per person or combined? Do you know where you plan to go--the Mall one day, the zoo another--and where you will be staying? On your previous visits, where have you eaten and what did you think of the quality/value of that food?