Pontormo

This is being started for selfish reasons, in part because I could not find an equally generalized topic while conducting a search. It wasn't until college that I learned people made their own salad dressings. We always poured Wishbone on our iceberg lettuce, cucumbers and the hot-house tomatoes that were packed three or four in a little green plastic crate. Now, my vinaigrettes are quite good and they're usually all that I make unless I crave Caesar salad or simply decide to follow the Italian custom of pouring vinegar and olive oil directly on the greens. I am pretty confident when it comes to using citrus juice as the acidic flavor for oil-based dressings, such as cilantro-lime. Trying to use up an opened container of (light) sour cream tonight, I failed to make a decent dressing. So, please set me right. Any ideas are welcome, especially from those of you have special tricks or formulas. Just nothing with dried dillweed or catsup, please. Ich bin eine Snob. Originally I wrote "Not Vinaigrettes" in the title to reflect my own interest in finding a good dressing made with sour cream or something other than vinegar and oil. However, this thread might prove more useful without the stipulation.

You may not be aware of this related thread from your forum. I had always assumed Italian food items worth buying were fairly easy to obtain in major cities in the U.K. I know Adam Balic complains about Scotland, though.

Extra's observation is clear to me, too. While I haven't seen many of Gourmet's lists, it does seem as if choices were made to encourage readers from all around the country that they are not too far from one of the greatest (and hate the word, but it's relevant here:) hottest places to dine, including those outside the continental United States. Better make reservations and catch them while they're still this good and the chefs this young. This fact also makes the NYC-based magazine look as if it's not self-absorbed, especially given its ranking of Alinea. The reprinting of the list from 2001 reinforces the value that seems to be placed on geographic diversity. What about diversity of cuisines, though? When Ruth Reichl answered questions posed by eG members, she asserted her belief that restaurants serving truly wonderful Asian food are not given their due. Would it be possible to elaborate? * * * As someone who rarely goes to restaurants, I have a somewhat related question about the experience of going to Alinea or another highly rated restaurant that gains respect for tasting menus. I understand the service at French Laundry is praised highly. I realize that most of us would go to one of these highly tauted, expensive restaurants to focus on the food and not for the sake of catching up with friends or delving further into the implications of Pascal's Wager. However, I find it difficult enough when servers come back over and over again to find out whether they can take away the plate with just a little bit of this or that on it ("NO! Wait until ALL the cheese and basil oil is gone and we wipe the plate clean with our bread, please!"). I would think that with a long succession of dishes gone in one or two bites, you and your party spend most of the evening in the company of the restaurant's staff. I don't think I would enjoy that as much as I would enjoy lingering over three or four courses. Such a preference would affect how I would rank the restaurant.

Actually, according to Jeffrey Steingarten (and I tend to believe him where etymology is concerned), "parmesan" is a gallic bastardization - the French word for Parmigiano, which was then picked up by the English-speaking world. Ah, and Merriam-Webster confirms it. Sorry for the word-nerd detour. ← Same old, same old. Whether or not you agree there was a Renaissance, most of us think of the era in terms of Italy during the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. In love with the idea that the glory of antiquity had been reborn, a Frenchman came up with the name of the time period as recently as the 1800s. See the link used for my signature line as yet another example of arrogant French hegemony.

Nice gnocchi, Shaya! How sweet to accommodate so! Bifurcate and redistribute some of the belly fat. Add opposable thumbs and pants, and yes, mi chiamo Pu. Actually played Pooh in Girl Scout camp one year. Still remember the "What shall we do about poor little Tigger? If he never eats nuthin he'll never get bigger..." speech. * * * As for the burrata flown in from Campania this very morning: Ricotta in the center The milk of the bufali is just different over there. The grass they eat. The air. Can you tell how much Brunella I drank, too? ETA: Opposable thumbs noted. Okay, add fingers. And shouldn't that read <<CIPOLLE>>>?

Broken record here when it comes to comparisons: brisket. One of the reasons I cooked the dish the night before was practical. I didn't anticipate it would take so long for onions to disintegrate and I was making quiche at the same time to be eaten as soon as it got out of the oven. Yours, Andrew, should not take so long. May have been my fresh onions, who knows? However, some Neapolitans will tell you Genovese should be cooked for 4-5 hours vs. the 2 1/2 specified in my recipe. Just make sure you have a thick sauce with deepened color. The second reason I spread the cooking over the course of two days is taste. Such dishes always improve after being reheated. I've had a friend's brisket (recipe from a former Gourmet editor's family) at least three times. It's always great. It always is done in stages over a period of at least two days. This morning, by the way, I stuck my finger in the jar of onion goo, and yup, even better the next day. If only the two of you eat the Genovese, there should be enough to discover whether the second day's servings are superior.

Kevin: I am easy regarding months we cook Tuscan & Umbrian food; I had only deferred to Hathor's original preferences. I still think that after a much needed break, we do right by ALL regions of Italy and continue in the spring of 2007, including Le Marche, the Veneto, etc. Marlena knows she has my respect, but if Baba's on the menu, she can have my dessert, too. Shaya: The onions are the sauce--as is the case with brisket, except there's a lot more of it, and yes, you're right, the meat juices contribute quite a bit as does the wine. According to our former regional host, you shouldn't be able to tell the onions are onions. Essentially, it's what a Frenchman might find on the burner if he forgot to turn the heat off after making onion soup. Elie: I forgot to say how good your lentils look. Deborah Madison has a recipe for lentil minestrone soup that I really like. Seems quite similar.

LA GENOVESE Peaches may be my favorite fruit, but onions are definitely my favorite vegetable. Were it not for the repeated references to a tree in Genesis, I would argue that there's a missing scroll somewhere in the Dead Sea identifying the source of Original Sin as the onion. Surely the Buddha knew what he was doing when he forbade his followers from eating this most pungent root. La Genovese is closely related to the ragu Neapolitans prepare in that it is a very slow braise which ultimately provides a sauce for dried pasta. I chose to follow a recipe by Marlena de Blasi since it seemed more interesting than simpler versions while not outside tradition. I also liked the fact that it required more vegetables than most, including the four large onions I picked up at the farmers market, dirt still clinging to their skin. Weight? Well over three pounds. First four ounces total of salt pork, salame and prosciutto are chopped finely and fried in olive oil before a large piece of beef (bottom round, on sale in my case) is browned in the fat. The beef rests on a plate while the thinly sliced onions go into the pan with garlic, chopped carrots and celery. White wine, a tiny bit of salt and a little tomato puree (which some omit altogether or add as only a t or T of tomato paste). Beef returns. I simmered the dish for around three or four hours last night and another two, at least, tonight. The thing is, the onions from the market rendered so much liquid that the Dutch oven looked as if it were a pot of French onion soup with a shrinking piece of meat in the center instead of a floating slice of gooey toasted baguette. Besides, the meat was just beginning to yield. Thanks to the additional night of cooking, when I removed the twine that was holding the beef together, thick shreds of fiber peeled off the sides. The watery soup was now a deeper reddish brown and thick enough to cling to macaroni. When I first piped up to say I was going to make this dish, I compared it to brisket. It's actually its opposite in that you have a little meat with lots of sauce. I followed the advice of one source and coated the pasta and Genovese with lots and lots of Parmigiano-Reggiano. I bite my thumb at the little green box of Kraft. It proved another reason to love the folks who gave us pizza and another reason to forgive them for Baba au Rhum. But wait. There's more! The meat really was meltingly tender, luscious especially with the little piece of fat at the edge when I sliced it. Like pot roast, yes, only shreddy. This I ate separately as per tradition, though I could not wait until the next night to do so. I cut up two small yellow potatoes and cooked them in the reducing sauce to serve as a contorno. Smashed, peppered, splattered with just a little more sauce, they, too, were very, very good.

Does anyone know anything about the relationship between Puglia's and Campania's burrata? I might try one of the latter tomorrow, shipped in that day. Just not sure if it's as good here as it is there. Any recommendations based on experience or expertise are welcome. * * * ETA: that looks great, Franci!!

Last night I made a slow braise, using a 2-lb. piece of bottom round. Despite more than the requisite number of hours of simmering in a bath of white wine, minced fatty meats, and vegetables including three pounds of slivered onions, it was only just at the point of seeming somewhat tender and the amount of liquid needs to reduce a bit more. Question: Why do recipes tell you to leave the dish out on the counter for an hour BEFORE reheating? Will texture or taste be compromised otherwise? I figure it's worth asking since I intend to cook it for about an hour more. There's a bag of pretzels in the house, but that's a long wait.

Here's the link. As you read along you find there is a fair mix of products, but after an introduction which implied that the author was weeding out "upscale" items (organic, etc.) in the interest of finding perfectly acceptable ordinary food, the first item she chose to single out is an extremely expensive imported oatmeal that goes for around $7 a can. What's wrong with Quaker Oats if you can't find a storebrand for even less? Her criteria, after all was "reasonably wholesome and possibly delicious." Perhaps the reference to "grocery gems" indicates that the item had to be distinctive in some respect. Yet, B&M baked beans, once a comfort food for this here Yankee, are made with some of the ingredients the author finds offensive (I seem to recall; could be wrong) and nowadays strike me as too sweet as a result.

I can't remember the last time I saw imported P-R for only $8.99 a pound. Is this really what you pay at DiBruno's or Reading? Here in D.C. $14 is a good price and it's recently climbed again. Now that Grana Padano is more readily available, I do what Italians do and save a little money by using this as an ordinary grating cheese, reserving P-R for dishes where I think it would make a difference. It's also made from cow's milk. Whether Locatelli (not the brand of pre-grated cheese menton1 finds in the NE, but an Italian cheese) or a less costly Pecorino Romano, cheeses produced from sheep's milk are not less expensive substitutes for P-R since the taste is different. * * * This thread reminds me of one I started on nutrition. It's insulting to tell someone that the thing she eats might be replaced by something superior. It's a personal slight. It can also be interpreted as a class thing. I find the comment made about comfort food the most salient. If you were raised on Kraft grated cheese and you look back to those meals with longing and affection, then you may very well like the stuff as a grown-up even though you like P-R (too many different associations for Rachael Ray to adopt?) too. This I can understand. You might even find Kraft more flavorful because it's sharper, saltier or stronger in taste--and what you are more accustomed to sprinkling on Italian-American food. What I find more puzzling are the people who buy Parmigiano-Reggiano grated just because they grew up with Kraft and don't think about grating their own cheese. Then again, I ground coffee beans in the store for years before I bought my own grinder and I can't remember the last time I baked bread even though it's perfectly easy to do. I also wonder about Stella or other domestic US brands from Wisconsin that were developed back when Parmigiano-Reggiano was not widely available in the United States. I suspect the brands survive because people grew up with them and don't know any better. Cost may be another factor, but it still amazes me that the "gourmet cheese" bin at my local Safeway supermarkets just has the domestic wedges, sold as a classier product than the bars of storebrand Cheddar over in a different section of the store. Another big-chain supermarket in this area, Giant sells real P-R in addition to the stuff from Wisconsin, but at a price much higher than Whole Foods.

Bekki, welcome to eGullet! I am so glad you chose to join because of this thread and really appreciate your first post here, as well as Pedro's response to my own. Your cook-off sounds fun. Sorry your competitor was such a spoil-sport, but that is the way it goes with recipe consultation. It's interesting to see that a number of us are finding so many of the dishes improve with age. (I had a little of my last attempt left, enough to incorporate into an impromptu lunch, and was very pleased by the depth of the sauce.) Thanks for recommending the chicken and I hope to read more of your impressions here!

Hmmm....so you were so traumaticized that you never, ever played with your food again? Not ever since that day way back in your childhood when you put something BROWN into a glass of MILK that makes it FOAM? And now, you say you are a coffee expert by profession? Ever hear the one about repeating the past over and over again until you rewrite the personal narrative to obtain a different, happier outcome?

"Acelgas" is chard, so I am led to believe from a quick search. Beet greens are great. Cooked, arugula loses the sharp spicy quality that some find too bitter when it is raw. If it's young and tender, just sliver it or leave whole and put it in bowls before you pour in the soup. Tough, mature leaves grown during hot months might benefit from simmering 1-2 minutes. There are SOOOOO many different kinds of greens, including varieties of kale that are not a pain to cook to use instead. However, let's hope the current state of alarm calms down soon and you're able to buy spinach easily in a few weeks...or less. I would still like to know why all spinach everywhere is being snatched from the shelves in ways that we simply have never seen before with meat. When Odwalla was singled out after a child too young to develop the proper immunities drank a minimally processed apple juice and died, apples and apple juice did not become the Enemy the way Spinach has thanks to the FDA. Labels for "natural juices" did change, I admit and Odwalla suffered...before it was purchased by Coca-Cola, if I have my chronology straight. Is it because the source of the processing problem for spinach has not been securely identified? Because illnesses are more widespread when California produces the majority of the crop we eat in the US? Or is there something post-Katrina going on now in federal efforts to REEEAlly protect our citizens with a swift, effective response? If anything good comes out of the current state of panic, maybe it will be the introduction of a wider variety of greens to mainstream grocery stores. Farmers markets, food co-ops, "ethnic" grocers and Whole Foods were places I first discovered the leafy greens that I never ate while growing up in New England and the midwest. Responding to local demographics or their location in the South, some supermarkets have always carried turnip, mustard, and collard greens. Now that Wal-Mart has decided to go organic (another issue, I know), there is bound to be a greater variety. I don't know what's available in Kansas, but if you have alternatives to large supermarkets, you might find this a good time to explore. ETA: When not making soup: Certain greens, including types of kale, benefit from a quick blanching. Boil large pot of water. Plunge in greens and let the water return to a boil. Take them out. (Rinse in cold water or plunge in ice bath if you'd like, but this really isn't necessary except to ease handling.) Drain, chop and saute with onions or garlic. However, I'd also say this is a good time to start searching eGullet for all the threads devoted to cooking greens. Search cooking forum, using "greens" as search term in titles. Also try specific names such as "amaranth" (sometimes called Jamaican/Chinese spinach) or "chard."

So, this is the first time I was disappointed with the dishes I have tried in the cookbook, probably because I had high expectations. My results differed quite a bit from the photograph that Pedro took here for following reasons: 1) I made half the recipe. 2) I chopped the onion finely as recipe advises and cooked it in my enameled Dutch oven until it really did caramelize (turning from gold to mostly brown), though I did not let the garlic darken as much as requested first. I also followed the recipe's proportions for ingredients, so I used only half of a very large sweet onion. I think I would have preferred more onion, less caramelized since the pieces were too dark and wizened by the time the dish was completed. 3) Again, re proportions, there should be more potato and less chorizo. 4) I took instructions to reduce the sauce seriously, so I waited until the liquid was moving in the direction of syrupy, or at least quite thick. This I liked, but the chorizo didn't. Therefore the sausage tasted a bit boiled. Potatoes and sauce were particularly nice. I also did not use Idaho, just the wonderful bright yellow ones I pick up for too much money at the farmers market. Forgot the starch-release tip here, but I think my darker, thick sauce really penetrated the potatoes which must have been too fresh to turn to mush despite the long cooking time. Instead the color merely penetrated deeper into their flesh. The hot chorizo (Spanish, no preservatives) was not at all "hot" to my taste, just deeply flavored. I think I will enjoy the remainder in smaller diced portions in another dish with potatoes (and eggs most likely). However, eating a double tapa-portion as a main course proved a bit too rich for little ol' me. Really better in a smaller portion with bread to sop up sauce and a good red wine to challenge the fat--which I also did without. I was planning on making a fig and raspberry clafouti for dessert, but needed fresh unadorned fruit instead.

Pio Tosini is also served at Dino here in Washington, D.C. The owner once worked for Whole Foods.

Neil: Go back and read posts closely and thoroughly. 1) I did buy Italian prosciutto here in Washington, D.C. at a WF this past weekend. 2) Reread what was said about Panko in my first post. I said "Panko" is now being used as a blanket term for Japanese style breadcrumbs, the same way "Kleenex" is used for paper tissues that might be manufactured by another company. I did not imply that one company named Panko makes one item that has been changed over the past 5 years to meet WF's standards, nor did I say that WF has changed its standards so that they now are inclusive enough to accommodate Panko. Earlier in the thread I said some rather unflattering things, too, but I am waiting to learn more.

Oops, you're right. Neither do I. I just do for the gnocchi. What I meant to encourage is freezing the raw egg in the mixture without worrying about getting sick. We all have spinach scare on the brain.

MrBJ: Despite what you wrote about Catalan spinach in the Tapas cooking thread where you omitted a terminal "s" in your moniker, I will answer. It is okay. The Inimitable Ms. Rodgers gives explicit advice for freezing and thawing uncooked ricotta gnocchi, also made with eggs, butter and cheese. Same advice would apply here: just make sure to leave space in between each piece you freeze when you put a tray in the freezer; you can always layer them on parchment once they're frozen. When thawing, let the entire process take place in the fridge. At this point, it's crucial that each one is separate so nothing sticks together and gums up, or tears and loses stuffing when you take them out and place them gently in the pot of boiling water.

Thank you for the diplomacy. Cf. the initial post of this thread. I try not to bite the hand that feeds me, though sometimes it is hard to resist.

First, great food, everyone, from the ambitious pizza rustica to pizza (with my favorite arugula topping), cool big tubular pasta and moist chocolate cake that is also making an appearance in the Dessert thread as a sign of seasonal change. Sorry your rabbit seemed to drown in too much tomato, Andrew, but sounds as if it was not dry at least. I'm debating whether or not to follow De Blasi's recommendations for tomato in a Genovese or stick to the traditional version without. * * * As for fried foods: it's not exactly a North: butter, South: oil dichotomy since Venetians do nice fried things with some of their seafood, no? Florence has at least two really good places to snack on fried foods, or sit down with it at lunch, take it home at dinner. I was recently admonished in another thread to seek the easiest answer to puzzling questions. So, why not think of it this way: deep-fried foods taste really, really good! Off the top of my head, I can't think of any cuisine I like that does not plunge edible substances in hot oil, preferably coating them in one way or another. FYI: The one thing from The Zuni Cafe Cookbook I did NOT like was the fritto misto. I tried the typically long instructions with enthusiasm and found myself feeling quite ill after just a bit of the stuff. Much too rich. Then you have to clean all the mess while your stomach's upset. * * * Franci: you mentioned something about the expense of peanut oil elsewhere. I know that in supermarkets, I tend to buy Mazola corn oil vs. peanut oil due to price. A few weeks ago, I went to the suburbs where there are two Asian grocery stores. I found a peanut oil from Hong Kong whose name is translated as "Knife Brand." It costs just under $4 for 900 ml. A friend fluent in Chinese is in town through the end of the week; I'll ask her if there's anything on the label worth translating about the source of the peanuts, etc. However, you might consider starting a thread in a different forum. There may be someone here with expertise in these matters.

I can't believe it was the end of both! I was told by Twin Springs that next week would probably be the last for the peaches. Toigo never wants to make predictions. "Weather," he said, as opposed to lack of fruit on trees. But there were SO many tomatoes at Dupont Circle that I figured we had two more weeks left. * * * Anyone bought the kiwi Heinz has been selling? Mythical to me since they have been snatched up prompty at 9, so I am told. But the guy's been growing them just like Italians do in Abruzzi.

I get the impression that "Panko" no longer refers just to one brand of Japanese breadcrumbs that contains the partially hydrogenated vegetable oil that has long been verboten at WF (notice lack of Pepperidge Farm cookies); it now refers to a "style" of light, dry breadcrumb distinctive from the Italian style that is more finely ground. The meatballs probably do not have fats.

Much ado about nothing on my part? I don't know. In any respect, the WF I usually visit DID have a tiny bit of the haunch of an imported prosciutto this weekend, a piece too small to produce slices that would wrap melon. Peaches or figs, maybe, and enough to mince for a Neapolitan Genovese. The deli folk expressed utter ignorance when I told them what the "team member" at a different store in the city told me, that is, that this particular region will no longer be selling imported prosciutto because it doesn't meet the company's standards. I still think it's odd that I haven't seen the ham for months at my local WF upon the grassy knoll. They swore they haven't been buying less and that the stuff is just so popular that it sells out quickly...at $21.99 around here.