rich

So if Del Posto fired Batali and replaced him with....say Lidia????

...and what does that say about Del Posto's fourth star?

Mine too. I do want to try it, I may wait another month or two. One thing is for sure - I WILL park my own car. Del Posto can charge anything they want for the food and wine, but they will not get $35 (29+6) to park the car. If I wanted to be raped, there are easier ways.

As the current "star keeper" how could he conclude otherwise?

Who is Oscar?

I have an idea (and I hope and don't think this breaks any rules). A group of interested eG's should go to Del Posto (informally) on the same night, all sitting at their own table with their own party - then compare notes the next day. It could be fun to learn the reactions from people at different tables served by differnt people, not knowing what anyone else is ordering. Any thoughts?

That was the point I made above. Steve, you say you doubt Del Posto's owners lost their way by making the stars ends in themselves and certainly that's a real possibility. But so is the opposite. I came to that conclusion for two reasons. The first was the obsessive nature the owners displayed about four stars both in print and on the TVFN special. Second, I've never seen as much criticism about Batali's food in any of his other restaurants. Everyone agrees the pasta is special, but most also state the entrees, apps, and desserts can be improved. For such a talent as Batali, that makes no sense unless there was something else on his mind. Maybe some of the other projects mentioned in the TV show played a role along with the stars - kitchenware, books, other restaurants etc. Or possibly, just the Bastianichs' personalities overwhelmed him. Or maybe the $12 million caused stress. I too, have always enjoyed the Batali restaurants and think he is a tremendous talent. But there is only so much one person can handle on their plate. I actually had a reservation for the first week in January, but cancelled after a friend (who has one of the world's best palates and is a huge Batali fan) said wait, it's not very good right now and needs time. He was also shocked at the price point and that from someone who is quite wealthy.

It is probably a mistake to guess about where the restaurant's owners and management spent their time. The Del Posto menu, which is unlike any other menu in New York, clearly reflects considerable thought. It is not as if they built a palace, and then someone said, "Holy sh*t, we gotta serve food, too!"The comment that "they knew the critic's penchant for ambiance" leaves me perplexed. In his relatively meagre oeuvre, I can't find any indication that Bruni has a penchant for this type of ambiance. A lot of the trappings at Del Posto seem to have been copied from other four-star restaurants (e.g., the purse stools). Let's leave aside, for the moment, that Batali and Bastianich made the unusual (and probably reckless) public announcement that they were going after a particular rating from the New York Times. I cannot recall any other restauranteur doing that, and based on this example, it's doubtful that anyone else will be doing so anytime soon. Del Posto, like Per Se, Masa, Daniel, Jean Georges, Alain Ducasse, and Gilt, was clearly designed from the ground up to be a four-star restaurant. No modern restaurant with those aspirations achieves that rating without very consciously thinking about all of the required elements. It simply doesn't happen unless you focus on it. Some of those restaurants persuaded the critic on Day One that they had succeeded. Some of those restaurants did not. It isn't any more complicated than that. We don't need to psychoanalyze them. This comment is ironic, when you consider that Frank Bruni is a populist critic. He isn't a member of the foodie elite, but a feature writer for Consumer Reports. The things that go into a four-star restaurant are simply the things that people want in a luxury dining experience. Rich keeps writing as if there are two different concepts, and focusing on one necessarily assumes a lack of focus on the other. It ain't so. ← Reasonable people can and do disagree at times. This will be marked down as one of those times. And the difference is fun to debate. But hey, we're still friends and I'm sure they'll be other topics to discuss where we will find common ground.

Rich's summation is excellent until he gets to this point. He presumes that "worrying about stars" is inconsistent with "serving quality food.....(etc.)." ← Upon re-reading, I didn't express myself clear on that point. My intention was not that worrying about stars is inconsistent with quality food, but rather to overly focus on stars may take some attention away from the food. By that I mean, it appears the Del Posto owners (I haven't been there, so I'm taking this from what I have read and electronically seen) spent a great deal of time, effort and money on the restaurant's trappings. It appears they knew of the critic's penchant for ambiance and went overboard (in my opinion) on the physical and somewhere along the line, didn't pay quite as much attention to the items on the plate. My conclusion - they designed Del Posto with the Times critic in mind (they certainly appeared obsessed with him on the Food Network show) and forgot that other people also travel down the yellow brick road.

May I take the liberty to sum up? The owners make it public they are seeking four stars and unabashedly seek out the NY Times critic for said mark. The restaurant opens to uneven reviews with most complaints about the prices, pretentiousness and lack of a top entree. There are many empty-table sightings in the restaurant. Del Posto earns three stars from a NYT food critic who is favorably disposed toward Batali. Even he mentions the pasta menu is the best and isn't overwhelmed by any of the entrees. The critic seems to go out of his way to defend Del Posto against its critics, both professional and members of the public - even stating that New Yorkers are not as open minded as they think. The owners claim to be ecstatic with the review. Though it can be said there was no other choice when standing behind a $12 million investment and the need to draw more customers. Take the three stars as a gift and try to build on it may be their mantra. The critic suggests a fourth star is attainable and the owners publicly state they will work harder at it - hoping for a re-review in about a year. This entire episode suggests owners who have run amok and need to re-focus their energy within the walls of the restaurant, stop worrying about stars and do what they have done best in the past - serve quality food with top-of-the-line ingredients in pleasant surroundings and make people feel at home. And above all, let the stars take care of themselves. It's very easy to become full of yourself, it's much harder to rid yourself of that characteristic. What does eveyone else think?

I guess he'll "have to" go back and re-review Gilt as well. "What's good for the goose...."

You're correct Marc, I don't know how much emphasis the Times puts on ambiance in star system, but by recent example it certainly has some significance. The ADNY and Babbo reviews go out of their way to emphasize ambiance problems. It's also listed as one of the printed factors in a rating. In the end, I don't think the Times is sure how much it's worth and it probably changes from reviewer to reviewer.

I'm sure they partied, as they realized two stars was a real possibility. But I don't think they were "ecstatic" as the report quoted. And yes, he laid the groundwork for four stars, but who's to say when it will be reviewed again or if he will be the reviewer. I don't think he can (fairly) review Del Posto again for more than a year - not when so many other important places haven't been reviewed for much longer than that. That would be too much of a bias. I don't think there's anything wrong with a critic having biases - we all do. But I believe that particular bias is what saved Del Posto from falling into the Gilt trap. It's interesting that the NY Times critic chastises other critics and some of the public as not getting or not having an open mind (paraphasing) toward Del Posto. Yet, it's the same thing most of Gilt supporters said of him after the two-star review. This is where the bias plays out. But I agree with you Marc, that's what he and every critic is being paid to do (their critical bias). As long as the public is aware of the bias - no harm, no foul.

Interesting comment Nathan. What dishes failed spectacularly? Granted I've only been once, but of the 13 courses I sampled, one was better than the other. In my opinion none failed - they all ranged from very good to outstanding. I do agree that WD-50 and Blue Hill were never geared for get four stars by the NY Times, especially since the Times puts too much (in my opinion) emphasis on ambiance. But I do think both serve four-star food. Again, it highlights one (of several) of the major flaws with the current NYT star system.

← He couldn't say anything else, he had to put a positive spin on this to avoid alienating the critic. Afterall, he still hopes to eventually get that fourth star. But there must be disappointment since the group openly said (many times and to anyone in earshot) that Del Posto was geared and supposed to be the first four-star Italian in NYC. Three stars (and I still maintain what I said before the review was published - that the third star would be because of the critic's fondness for all things Batali) just puts it at the level of some of their other places. But I do have a question. Has Del Posto received a top ranking by any other critic? I don't think so, but I'm sure I haven't seen all the reviews.

I got the Gilt prediction wrong, so I'll crow about getting this one right. Here's Mr. Bruni: ← You nailed that one Marc - are you sure you don't have a secret identity?

Rich, I think that most people would agree that a review is supposed to cover the food, service, ambiance, and prices. The food comes first, but I don't think it's taboo to discuss non-food aspects of the overall experience, as long as it is in reasonable proportion to the overall review length.The Babbo review was flawed, because he asked the rhetorical question, "Why isn't this restaurant four stars?" And he proceeded to complain about the music. He went on to list a number of other very reasonable (non-musical) complaints that amply bolstered his argument that Babbo isn't a four-star restaurant. But if you're making the case for the prosecution, should the chef's taste in music be the first exhibit admitted into evidence? No, it should not. That was a lapse in judgment. However, in this review—where the audio background is mentioned merely as an aside—I see no problem with it. ← I agree Marc. I just found it amusing that one of the first comments he made was about the difference in music in Del Posto from other Batali places.

Maybe New York doesn't need any four-star places in the traditional meaning of the term. We have a few other places serving four-star food that don't meet the archaic ambiance requirement of the NY Times (WD-50, Blue Hill come to mind - ADNY would probably get four if its bathroom gets fixed). New York has become less formal than many other major metropolitan areas and this is reflected in its best restaurants. Personally, I would rather eat at WD-50 than Per Se, not because of the food (I think they're both terrific), but because of the comfort level.

At least this review does talk about the food for the most part, but he still goes into music and the noise made by the copper pots. It's the first time he's written (at least in my memory) about other critics and the public. He seems to take a swipe at the critics of the place as not being open-minded enough (paraphrasing). Interesting comment to make in a review - almost stating his impressions are better than those other critics and some members of the public. His fondness for Batali comes through in giving him the benefit of the doubt with the menu and room for improvement. In my opinion that's what got Del Posto the third star - just an opinion, but I stated that up-thread (about the third star).

At least he likes the music.

During the 50's, 60's when I was growing up, more often than not, restaurant and bar urinals would have ice. Someone said it up-thread - it's used to decrease odor - especially if you just ate asparagus.

That's interesting - I always attempt to make all first time starters - unless a guest calls ahead of time and asks for a dish they had before. I keep a journal with the date, people and each course (with wine selections) so I never repeat to the same guests. Since I rarely cook the same thing twice, it's not much of a problem but there are occasions. Last night I had a dinner party for six - 13 items (six amuse bouche), first course, second course, entree with two vegetables, dessert, cheese course with accompaniments and only two dishes had done before (the amuse bouche roasted shallot custard and the hash browns with the entree).

Thanks - I called Kelco and they are sending me a sample.

I've been trying to track down a source to purchase gellan. I have a few of Wylie Dufresne's recipes and he uses a lot of it. A search on google proved fruitless. Anyone know where you can get this fermented gum? Thanks in advance.

Like most good "marketeers," Mario uses the word authentic when it seems best and then backs off slightly if that seems to work better. Whatever works at the moment is part of marketing strategy 101. Bottom line (for me) - Babbo is a very good restaurant that has a style all its own based on Italian influences.