Rail Paul

The Outer Banks Brewing Company in Kill Devil Hills offers a good treatment of fresh fish and relatively simple grilled meats. They source their fish locally, so you get what they get. Had five or six brews including a porter, and a wheat beer. Figure $30 a head for dinner. Pastry chef Tina Mackenize had a number of interesting sounding (and tasting) offerings. If I can find my notes, I'll expand the descriptions. There's a bbq place south of KDH, Pigman's?, with decent 'cue and a moonshine based vinegar and pepper sauce (in their bottle).

Tommy, when I get home I spout about the assholes of the world. Unfortunately the high road is the only road to take when in the public eye but being you've still not set foot in The Grill I don't look at you as a customer. Geez Now Anthony!!!!. Could Tommy be next? Viejo

I have sacrificed a 1/2 sheet pan. I leave it in the oven all the time. I find that it's easier to aim for than a skillet. I also think that because of the larger surface area you generate more steam initially than with a skillet. I pour 1 cup of hot water onto the pan just after loading the loaves. This amount (from Peter Reinhart) evaporates during the first 10-12 minutes of baking. Steam hanging around after this can wreak havoc with good crust development. Just one man's opinion. That's an excellent approach. I use an old cast iron skillet, a large (14") pizza tile, and ice cubes. Skillet in the lower shelf of the oven, tile in the middle. The usual mix is 85% King Arthur bread flour, with the remainder divided among rye, whole wheat, spelt, bran, nuts, cereals, etc. A touch of salt or soy sauce is the remainder. The bread is lightly brushed with olive oil, and dusted with cornmeal. I preheat the oven to 500F for 30 minutes, reduce to 400F, add the scored bread directly to the stone, toss 3-4 ice cubes onto the skillet, and the steam continues for 4-5 minutes. Cook time is about 32 minutes, until the internal temp is 195 degrees The usual result is a very puffy, golden brown, relatively light loaf with a very thin crust.

I wonder if they've changed since last Spring / Summer? I recall it being pretty good. With your observations, I'll definitely re-visit and update my thinking Thanks!

Maybe it's a subjective thing, but I'd rather bring my own bottle of 20 year old Burgundy for which I paid $30 in 1988, than pay the restaurant $150 for their bottle. I know how my bottle was treated, don't have a clue on their bottle. (Is it my imagination, or am I channelling Steve Plotnicki?)

Although I rarely find myself in disagreement with you, Kim, here's one. I think Scalini Fedeli in Chatham was an exceptionally fine place prior to the license, just as Il Mondo Vecchio still is. It's exceptionally difficult to win without wine and liquers, but the combination of a well stocked personal cellar and an advance peek at the menu / special offerings might do the trick.

That's an exceptionally good price. congratulations!

At the risk of provoking viejo how about the Manor and Highlawn Pavilion? Both are in West Orange

Maybe an answer is there's no ONE answer. Depending on the combination of affluence, commute, cluster, other attractions a restaurant may succeeed if it commands a key need. I'm thinking about the restaurants right outside Red Bank (Fromagerie, Nicholas, etc)., and within ten minutes (cluster in Atlantic / Highlands). My sense is a very solid study of the local market is necessary to determine whether your lunch trade, your weekend or your weeknight trade drives your profit points. Pierre's (202 south of Morristown, adjacent to one of the highest per capita neighborhoods in the US) struggled for years even though they had wonderful cooking, good service, and extensive parking. They're doing fine, now. I've gotta agree on Hoboken, though. Parking is difficult, and that's a solid deterrent to going there.

What makes a town or area good for higher end restaurants? Why are places like Montclair and Hoboken brimming with good places, and Jersey City, Morristown, Ridgewood or Red Bank grasping for even a few? I'll offer a hypothesis. Everybody's busy during the weekend, the weekday evening may be the tipping point to profitability. Neighbors matter. A large corporate office presence will generate sales calls, lunches out, etc. There's no way Madison and Chatham justify the number of places they have absent the lunch trade. Affluence matters. People have to be willing to drop $50 a head. Access matters, a lot, people don't want to go out if they've just commuted 90 minutes. Apartment matters. Homeowners are more likely to cook / entertain at home, all else being equal. A Commute matters. Several chefs with whom I've spoken prefer the suburban lifestyle, especially if they have families. NYC will often keep you in the shop until 10 or 11 pm. It's rare that a NJ restaurant delivers a meal past 9 pm during the week. You're home by 10 pm, not 1 am Movies, etc matter. Montclair is a walking town. From Luna Stage down to Indigo Smoke is about a mile, or fifteen minutes walk. Two live theaters, three movies (13 screens), and prob 25 restaurants. Another 3-4 over on Walnut, along with two artisan bakers.

A restaurant which sets its goal on serving the needs of its customers is heading in the right direction. Since few businesses are blessed with a surplus of customers, you need to attract more, and retain those whom you have. If gay folks aren't welcome in other places, you fill that niche with a place that does the job. If your decor, your food, or your staff is especially welcoming to gay folks, or musicians, or older customers, that's great. You create a welcoming environment, and provide a respectful staff. If you do your job right, the buzz will bring in more customers. More money, more jobs, more satisfied customers. Many businesses find the need to broaden their base, and attract an expanded mix of customers, while not alientating their core establishment If that doesn't work, like Tommy suggests, you can stage a fight every few minutes, and attract all the hockey fans in the area for the price of a beer. Gay or straight, it doesn't matter, it's the fight that counts...

I'd be surprised if the social planners who run the market considered the needs of the thousands of people who actually buy their food at the market. I'd suspect the criteria were weighted more toward a demographically representative selection of gender, preference, ethnic, organic, vegan, small / sustenance vendors, etc than what the customers actually want. "We know what's good for you, and the government will provide it." Based on the article and the success of Nman Ranch, many people like their product, and will pay a premium for it. Why shouldn't the government make it easy for them to get what they want? It's not like hundreds of organic meat providers are lined up to fill the slot, is it? BTW, Ben & Jerry's is now a subsidiary of UniLever, maker of food products, cleaning products, and other good things. On the way out, B&J nabbed an endowment for their good works foundation, along with oodles of cash.

Many US gasoline stations routinely give a discount for cash, even post the cash and credit prices on the price boards. It is usually about 3%, expressed as five cents on $1.50, etc. Restaurants will occasionally give a cash discount if asked. More often an independent than a chain, which prob has something to do with financial controls on cash.

Boylans cherry and root beer sodas aren't bad. Local brewer in NJ, typically $2.99 a six pack, IIRC

Tom - do you have any thoughts on why that might be? on the surface, a place like Red Bank prob has similar demographics to Montclair, Summit, Millburn, Ridgewood or Morristown. Artsy core shopping area, Schwab, Fidelity offices, affluent, good schools, etc. It would seem that good restos would thrive in an environment like that. Paul

I've been to Rosemary & Sage three times, and I've been pleased with each visit in varying degrees. I've discussed it here. I was a little surprised wth Mr Bonom's review, too, although I don't question that was his experience, and that's what he has to write. Of course, if we really believed in de gustibus non disputandum esse (in matters of taste, there should be no disputing) eGullet would miss most of its most spectacular wars and critics would become PR flaks Is it the best restaurant in the world, or even NJ? No. Is it the best restaurant in Morris County? I'd put it in the top 10 I've visited, along with An American Place, Serenade, Scalini, Kyoto, etc, adjusting for price to value.

The Sunday 4/27 NY Times NJ section has a comment that the Ocean Township area is next on line for a Wegmans after Woodbridge. Other expansions are intended for South Jersey, none for northern NJ. Links to follow

Grunings "at the top" of South Orange Avenue was a favorite make out place during the 1960s and 1970s. High bluff at the crest of South Mountain, large parking lot, take out ice cream, etc. Other Grunings were located in downtown South Orange near the corner of Vose Avenue, in Short Hills where the Hardees is now, and, as noted, adjacent to the Claridge theater. There's a 1955 picture in the lobby which shows the Grunings.

Good luck on your venture. Sinclair makes several excellent points, which you may want to consider carefully. You should visit several clubs, restaurants, etc which you would see as targets. Ask how they source their pastry goods now, how satisfied they are, and how much do they pay for a few named items. In Northern NJ, a large provider of high end pastry goods to restaurants is Chatterly's. Specialty pies, decorated cakes, tarts, etc sourced from its own industrial baking operations. Chatterley's has several delivery trucks, and appears to do a substantial trade. Their Fairfield retail facility opens after the deliveries are sent out. I haven't been there recently, but their prices retail were about $18 for a 12 inch two tiered cake, IIRC.

Gourmet magazine, May 2003 This issue ties the concept of islands (Manhattan, Crete, Iceland, etc) to their culture and food. Recipes and history mesh in an overview of the recipes. Gourmet Main Menu RECIPES A summary of wonderful island restaurants from Crete to Indonesia is Island Restaurants Jno Gold discusses 27 places in Manhattan, ranging from 5 wonderful dumplings for a buck to a lamb's tongue sandwich, and the delightful Rio Mar Caroline Bates does Vancouver Island. The White Heather Tea Room, the Aerie at Malahat, and the Sooke Harbour house. She marvels at an all local (no French) cheese platter. Roadfood does Edisto, SC. The rural island paradise boasts a pig joint, miles of white sand beach, and liver hash over rice. Princess Margaret has departed, but her digs at Mustique remain. For the modest price of $12,000 a week, you can enjoy her home. If you want something better, LaCure will address your needs for a modest $4,500 per night. The next hot island is Asian. Koh Lanta's Costa Lanta is off the coast of Thailand. Not yet discovered by the moneyed classes, it offers basic services, but spectacular beaches. Travel destination is Havana. The writer discusses the Cuban love of baseball, the pride of an oppressed people and the overwhelming hospitality of the average citizen. La Zora y El Cuervo for club music, the revue at Tropicana are mentioned. A table describes ways Americans may access Cuba. (Note: this chart precedes recent US reg updates which limit the opportunity for Americans to visit Cuba.) The positive tone is modified by a travel note. Although Cuba is one of the safest places in the world, due in part to the large police presence, some crime does occur. The recent crackdown on drug dealers, petty crime, and dissidents is noted. The recent trial and execution of the ferry hijackers is not mentioned. Wine Notes covers Sauvignon Blanc as a worthy accompaniment to the Low Country Carolina menu. Asher likes the St Supery '01 for that purpose. Mangos are used for relish, for breakfast, and any time. A seared mahimahi with mango relish is offered under recipes. Kitchen of Light, new Scandanavian Cooking. From the new cook book, a fascinating story about the gathering of sheep. Once a year, villagers voyage to the island to cull the herd. Men and women form a long line, and walk forward to herd the sheep into an enclosure. Any sheep who finds a hole in the line earns freedom. The remaining sheep and lambs and sorted. Those sheep who go back to mainland slaughter are bound with men's ties and women's pantyhose. There's a recipe for vodka beef tenderloin, and another for lamb and cabbage stew. A second Iceland article covers the experience of riding among the mountains and into the clouds. Springs and sheep, salt cod with butter glazed onions, and a vibrant culture. Low Country elegance features recipes from a wide range of upscale carolina coastal locations. Crete features superb photography, recipes for black eyed peas with dill, fresh rabbit with egg noodles, and an interesting pastry. The pastry is a honey dripped spiral cooked in oil. A detailed description of this process is offered. Pastry on Crete Gourmet every day has mussels with roasted potatoes, lettuce with pea soup, baked eggs with spinach, an phyllo nests with strawberries and honey. (You could also use the Cretan spirals for this, I think) Love Boat covers a trip on the Sea Goddess 1, a luxury cruise ship. More links to follow as Gourmet releases them.

I believe Applegate Farm uses a Parmalat (Welsh Farms) base for its ice cream. AF adds its proprietary mix of fruits and fillings. I definitely concur the quality seems to have gone downhill (or maybe my tastes have gone up). In the immediate area of AF in Hanover, I would recommend Maggie Moo's for ice cream. Route 10 West, opposite Novartis, in a little strip mall. I've found the taste preferable to AF. Holsten's is great stuff. Broad Street, 100 feet south of Watchung Ave in Bloomfield

well, in my mind, something that doesn't have an equivalent offered on the menu. that goes for any restaurant, and not just NJ restaurants. i find, however, that restaurants with piss-poor wines offered are those that have no idea that BYO'ing should be acceptable. it's a shame, really, as i often want to go to these places to enjoy the food, and some decent wine, but their lack of education gets in the way. so many restaurants offer 7 different chardonnays, a crappy pinot grigio, 5 merlots from CA, and 2 cabs from CA. so unnecessary, and so sad. they might as well offer "red or white." the wine list at An American Grill is excellent, and based on my two visits, reasonably priced. Tommy's point about crappy wine lists is a good one. The guest should always have the last say on which wine is the "best" for a meal, whether it is brought in or purchased there. I'm sure many chefs would agree, if only in theory

Not lately, so my comment would lack objectivity.

Unfortunately, abuse is becoming a fairly frequent way of expressing disagreement on eGullet. There was a time when an opinion about a restaurant would be met with a different experience, such as an informed and reasonable description.

Thanks that info seems to wrap up several of the threads. a keller property in the venetian, opening mid-2003. doesn't say so, but it would make sense to have josef at the helm. let's see if it actually happens...