Pam R

well spiced and full of alcohol My aunt has always made the honey cakes in our family - though I've baked some at work, I always used our 'work recipe' - this is the first time I put together my own recipe - and I love it! lots of spice, the all-important buckwheat honey, a hint of orange and ... well ... rye. Yummy.

I've owned this book for years but tried very few recipes out of it (though the ones I tried I remember liking, there is something about the way is put together that I don't really enjoy). Thanks for pointing me to some of these recipes - as soon as I have an oven I'll give them a shot.

I couldn't agree more. I may post this on a big sign in the kitchen... but then, I do the baking now - so it's not an issue.

Pan, you're not off topic at all - I love the your new fruit tradition - I only wish I lived in an area where I'd be able to find something different. I've heard both theories about the shehechianu and about the extra day being there because we don't know what the correct day is. I think they work together at this point - in this day and age there is no issue of which date is correct, but we still celebrate an extra day, so using the new fruit for the shehechianu works. In the end, my columns were full of some of my fravorite childhood holiday foods - nothing all that exciting, but my versions of baba's recipes - turkey with fresh fruit compote (vs. the dried fruit one that I love, but turns out the fresh fruit is amazing), honey cake, honey cookies, easy apple strudel, a honey scented pear and cheese tart, a compote square, and two things that we've honestly never really made in my family but I know many families do enjoy: tzimmes and apple kugel. I did, by the way ,work out a recipe for teiglach - which taste similar to what I remember from my childhood. Unfortunately I realized that I don't really like balls of dough cooked in honey - so they didn't make the cut Now... shoud we start a new Yom Kippur - break-the-fast thread?

Dark pumpernickle is ok too. My family ran a jewish deli for a few years here in Winnipeg - we brought ALL of our deli meats from Montreal. Unfortunately, building a huge new plant right before the Mad Cow issue brought about the demise of our supplier. But they definately made a good corned beef. Never smoked (smoking would then make it smoked meat no?). It was definately highly seasoned though. They also made pastrami (using a shoulder roast - I'm assuming because kosher briskets are so damn expensive and they saved them for the corned beef and smoked meat). And their smoked meat was amazing. We sliced it thick and steamed it. You could order a 100, 200 or 300 gr sandwich - big hit. Of the three, I'm really not a fan of Pastrami .... the ones I've had seem to have almost a sour note that I don't like. Occasionally somebody would order one of the meat sandwiches on a bagel, or worse white bread! With lettuce? Margarine? Oy. Our new supplier is in Toronto - good corned beef but the smoked meat needs some work.

Any good Filipino restaurants out there? Then you wouldn't have to cook... I fell in love with Vancouver (despite the rain) on my first visit out there last November - I can't wait to see your Vancouver.

Daniel – hi. Please excuse any repetition from my previous posts. Don’t be so quick to judge based on one incident – or really just a musing, a request for opinions - rather than any action being taken. As you are a food critic, you know that food establishments come and go rather quickly. A poorly run food business would not be successful more than 20 years into it. I’d like everybody to look at the situation from another point of view. You are looking at this as a single catered event and think it’s poor business acumen to figure out how to make this work best for both the hosts and ourselves. Our company has thrived because we aim to make the weddings and other events in people’s lives as enjoyable as possible. This is why we have catered weddings for people and then gone on to cater brises and baby namings for them when they have children. I can’t tell you how many bar and bat mitzvahs we’ve catered for the children of the weddings we’ve done. They call on us for holiday meals, funerals, shivas, unveilings, parties and corporate events. When we work with people on something as important to them as a wedding, relationships are established and they call us for many of their life cycle events. As I’ve said a couple of times now, we are not going to take a loss on something. This does not mean that I can’t muse about options that will make it more palatable for the customer. As we all know, happy customers are repeat customers. Unhappy customers tell everybody they know just how unhappy they are. Hopefully the fabulous pre-wedding dinner we did for them on Saturday and the beautiful wedding last night and all of their satisfied and happy guests will override any issues they have. I think that they really know that it was too late in the day to do anything about the numbers. Thanks for confirming and validating what our initial response to the situation was. Fortunately it’s a situation we rarely (never) find ourselves in.

Yes. It's on the list of flours to try using. While the potato/rice flours worked nicely, I think that there has to be better options. Rice has a grainy texture that I don't like.

Any thoughts on apple selection? Our old baker used to use red delicious - but I prefer a tart apple. Granny smith were my #1 choice - good tartness and they retain their shape. I haven't made an apple pie in a couple of years - but I'm thinking some of the new-to-me varieties may be good. Opinions?

we always use the same dough for fruit-filled that we use for others.

It's sad that the happiest place on earth probably isn't all that generous in this area . Thanks for all your thoughts. I asked the question mostly to get feedback - to see what other people in this situation do and what customers might think. In reality - the options really are limited. The bottom line dictates the answer - we can't take a loss on this. As I said earlier - we have been in business catering large functions (by large I mean 200 - 1300 sit-down) for over 20 years. This is the first time the numbers have changed so drastically so close to the function date. When it's out by a few people, it's not a big deal. Issues of whether these people would abuse any generousity on our part I believe are irrelevant. We know them - they are lovely ... and this is their only child's wedding . I like the idea of giving them whatever extra foods we can frozen/raw. With instructions on how to cook it they won't be stuck eating the same meal two nights in a row if they don't want to. Making a food donation is nice as well. This is an option that the bride, groom and their families can decide on. In the end, I think it's that we feel a great deal of rachmonis (compassion, empathy) for these people. They didn't plan this - and it's a mistake that will cost them a lot of money. If it was something that we could absorb in order to help them we would like to. But this is real life - and as you've all pointed out - there is a signed contract - and we can't take the hit. But the rachmonis is still there.

While I can't picture the beet ones, I think they may be good . The lekvar ones I definately think would be good. When I was a kid my baba would make saskatoon-berry ones... mmm.

And it's a long weekend - it might be nice for them to have some extra food?

Re: who signed the contract. The people who finalized the number (mom and dad) are the contact people and they are paying. In fact, they've already pretty much paid - almost 95% of the bill. I really believe that it's not a case of mom putting down her foot regaurding the number of guests. She is the one that confirmed 200 a week ago. I'm in business with my parents - so we've been depating this. I feel strongly that they should pay for the confirmed #. The food is done, they're paying for it - they can have it (the extras). My mother's concern is that these are nice people, a mistake has been made, they've been wonderful to work with and she feels that the mother was as in shock as we are. The problem is that giving them a break is obviously going to affect the bottom line. We don't want this catering/wedding to end on a sour note for either party. As for the rentals - there's nothing that can be done about this. They will have to pay the full amount. We're leaning towards charging them for the 200 and giving them the food.

Today is Thursday. On Sunday we're catering a wedding. Last week the numbers were confirmed. This afternoon at 5:30 PM we get a phone call from the mother of the groom. The 'kids' miscounted and instead of 200 guests, there are only 170. Because we're off-premise caterers many things are done in advance. Even if they weren't - most of the food has been purchased. The entree is salmon wrapped in fillo with a lemon sauce and asparagus - they are done and in the freezer - ready to be thawed and cooked. All of the baking is done. The knishes have been made. The other sides are already purchased. All of the dishes and silverware for the wedding are rented - they will be delivered tomorrow morning - the call today came in too late to change the numbers. What would you do in this situation? Would you charge them for the full 200? Give them the extra food and call it a day? Would you charge them for 170 and not give them the extra? How about splitting the difference? Charge them for 185? Thankfully, after 20 years of catering this is the first time this has happened. Yes we've had number change - but for no more than 5 people.

Update: I tried a recipe - yeast, potato starch, potato flour and rice flour. I don't think it would fool you into thinking it was the real thing - but it was darn good. The brownie recipe was good too - though I tweaked it a little. When I have some time, I think I'd like to try some of my own experiments - using some of the flours that don't really seem to appear in the cookbook. But for now, this will definately pass.

The population isn't large enough. We're a small business - we cater, we've run restaurants. We just moved our business to expand the retail sales and focus on corporate catering and prepared foods. So the sales of raw, kosher ingredients is a portion of our sales, not the whole shebang. We had a slaughterhouse here - it closed several years back. They are only slaughtering limited beef here - and the level of kashrut isn't high enough for everybody. They rarely slaughter any lamb. In addition to the meats we also bring in cheeses and grocery and specialty items. Some of these items come in from Toronto, some from the US and some from Israel. There is no way our population would ever be large enough to make it possible for all of these things to be produced here.

I don't think a rise in gas prices will make me change my dining out habits - it hasn't yet. While I odn't have a restaurant, I am in the food business and I can tell you the higher gas prices have already had a large impact. Being in the middle of the country and away from the larger cities, we bring in at least one shipment of food from Toronto each week. There has been a 'gas charge' on all shipments for the last few years - but it's been on the rise for a while now. It's a per pound charge on top of the shipping charge we already pay. There is no way we can absorb these charges and they do get passed on to the consumer. People complain each time the price goes up, but it doesn't stop them from buying from us. Most of what we sell isn't available locally - kosher products, mostly meat. The only places in all of Canada where they are slaughtering kosher chickens are in Montreal and Toronto - so there is no alternative. Will people be eating less meat then? Perhaps - but the gas prices have been going up for years and our sales (and customer base) have been growing in the last couple of years too.

There is also the kreple (kreplach plural. In my family we never call them perogies - but in the non-Jewish community in my city the perogy is king and that's what the general public knows them as (we have a very large Ukranian population here). I was always told that the name refers more to the shape - the vereneke is the 1/2 circle. A kreple is a a have circle that is then folded in half and the corners are pinched together. In our restaurant and store - Verenekes refer to potato and onion filling. Kreplach are either meat (just chicken - no pork here) or on the flip side they are also the cheese filled ones. Both these fillings originally were shaped like a kreple should be ... but we produce so many of them we got lazy and stopped.

The stuff I can get is made by Fillo Factory. My product list also tells me they make spelt fillo... and at least some of their stuff is organic.

I don't know about puff pastry, but I do know that you can get whole wheat filo dough. We are also catering a wedding this weekend - the guests are getting salmon in filo - the vegetarians are getting our vegetable strudel in filo - works well. Good luck!

Says who? The knishes I grew up on were not heavy at all. They were (and are) made with a stretch dough - just like my baba made when she lived in Poland - then taught us how to make them at work. I always think of my knishes as true knishes... not those horrible things you buy in NY. Proof please!!

I read through the recipes today and have selected a couple to try. Went out and bought the various flours (as well as the ingredients for the brownies) so tomorrow I'll test them. I also happen to be somewhat gluten intolerant (not celiac). At my age I think it's easier to avoid 'baked' products - but I'm hoping I like some of these recipes - just so I have an option. The store I went to had many more flours that weren't called for in the recipe (buckwheat, quinoa, teff, etc.) - when I have some time I think I may do some of my own experimenting. BTW - it was pointed out that instead of the gelatin I could try subbing my agar agar (just arrived, haven't used it yet) - there are so many things to try! We'll see what happens

Yes. And it makes sense. I wonder if there are some who claim that a bureka is connected, derived from a knish? I mean ... they both have similar fillings and are wrapped in a (hopefully) flaky dough...

Here's one of the recipes I use - it's pretty simple. Not many ingredients. Kreplach (Perogy) Dough 1 ¾ C. water 1 egg ½ tsp. salt 4 C. flour Mix everything together and knead it (I use a dough hook with my mixer. Start with 3 C. of flour and add in enough to form a soft dough). Place on a tray and cover with plastic wrap. Let it relax on the counter for a couple of hours - it's best if it's warm. Roll it out on a floured worksurface and cut with can into circles. Top each circle with filling - a heaping tbsp. should do it. Fold dough over the filling to form a 1/2 circle. Pinch the 2 sides of dough together - make sure it's well sealed. Bring a large pot of water to boil - with a little oil in it. When all of your perogy are formed, gently place in the boiling water - checking all of the edges as you go. Boil until they are floating. USe a slotted spoon and place into a colander. If you're going to freeze them - toss in a little canola oil - then place in a single layer to cool. I like them best fried after boiling. Use butter and top with sour cream.