Carrot Top

No no no. Alinka and Daniel. You need help. My photography skills are available. They can make any decent thing look bad. Please.

Ethos Pathos Logos ...................................... These three principles drive any piece of rhetoric and by them we can define its validity and truth. *The clear ethical and moral base of the person presenting the argument. *The sense of emotional connection or importance that resides within the argument. *The logic of the argument. .............................................. Do these three things reside within this piece of rhetoric? (Ramsay's).

Is that someone's tongue hanging out of the front of that sandwich on the right hand side, Daniel?!

Again, Brian, I can see some of your points clearly. But again, why use the word "hate"? It is a strong word. Small hatreds are not the same as big hatreds. And anybody that has seen real hatred knows this and still reacts to this word as anethema. This is your father you are speaking of. You truly "hate" him for not being able to cook?! If you need to hate him, I would hope it would be for something larger than that, one skill that is not within his scope or perhaps his interest. Male or female, not everyone "needs" to love food. It is a pleasure and an excellent thing when they do. But to claim "lack of initiative and ignorance" in knowing how to cook as something good to use to *discriminate* between individuals in the human race does seem to me to have a higher than average arrogance to it. There are many ways to live. We do not have to "hate" people who choose different paths. Not unless they come up and punch us in the face or something, and personally I do not view "those who do not cook" as doing that to me. It may be that what you seek in a woman is that she does cook. It may be that you have not seen a lot of this. But sitting there with your notebook in hand, sorting out the "ones who do" from the "ones who don't" might keep you in a very limited position in terms of finding this thing. For nobody really wants to be assessed with that cold of an eye. Particularly when romance is somehow part of the picture in some way.

It's a funny one-liner, but not really fair, I think, to the point that was trying to be conveyed. Namely, that in exposing some of his friends to carefully prepared food, including his own cooking, he saw some recognition in his friends regarding how food could be treated with respect and enjoyed. They evidently did not gain this experience in their own home growing up whatever their other advantages. Whether someone happens to be wealthy and this occurs at an expensive restaurant is really besides the point. There is also quite a bit more in the post. Hey, I never thought I'd be sticking up for a Dookie. (Tarheel fan) ← In one of his previous points he conveyed a bit of personality in the conversation relayed between him and yet another fine young woman from a "good family" where his response to her was "I hate you" based on the fact that she stated that she could not cook. I don't care where exposure to food happens. I do care that people watch their arrogance levels - most particularly when they are claiming they "want to help". My own background is in fine dining and as being executive chef to the very wealthy. I have nothing against that world at all. The point that I see Brian trying to make is that *he* knows a lot. And apparently nobody else around him does. And he seems particularly concerned about the girls in this group not knowing a lot. As a girl (or as someone who used to be and who turned into a woman at a certain age) I am offended for these girls. *If* he knows so much, and *if* he cares so much, it simply is not coming off that way from where I sit and read it. This may be a function of his age. Nothing wrong with that. But as the world could use a few more "nice guys" rather than guys who sweep around sure of their mastery of all being arrogant to whomever stands before them - I felt it imperative to show my opinion of such behavior.

Well, yes. . .actually while I *can* remember many stories of chefs or *foodies* learning the ways and the wonders of food, the stories are generally set in a home kitchen or a family kitchen or the kitchen of a friend or even while standing in front of a lovely display of fruit at a market. There are not many stories to remember where the impetus was a dinner at Jean-Georges or others of that ilk. Maybe this will be the new path of foodwriting. "How Dining at the Altars of Foodiedom Made Me Who I Am Today" by A Knowledgeable M**F**er.

Facts and opinions are what were in the book.

I daresay the young lady might have learned *something* from her Cuban housekeeper in all those years had she chosen to. I *am* glad you decided to show her the light. With the help of Jean-George bien sur - collaborative effort. Divine. You are truly a mensch. *Mensch* is in the dictionary. At least it is in the one I own. It's a fairly decent edition. Not as pricey as my Maserati, so if you want to borrow it I won't mind. ............................................ Now can someone tell me the size of Gordie's shoes, please. I *really* need to know these things whenever I think of men.

The cant of "celebrity" is uninteresting. It has nothing to do with a whole lot of what is real *except* for utilizing the ability to strike a pose that many people (who are defined as "other-directed" by some social psycologists) will find more interesting than their own rather wonderful and interesting selves (if they would only look inward rather than to the television for answers). The cant of "celebrity" then choosing to define itself as social critic is no more than utter nonsense. It just takes the "other-focused" general public one step further into the realm of a world where ideas and beliefs are created based on. . .? A credible source? A knowledgeable source? Or is it a source that created itself for its own reasons - to feed its own huge ego. The cant of "celebrity" that has set itself up as social critic that *then* continues down this path of merry plunder upon others in a way that separates out *one* group for attention (because in choosing this group the largest amount of attention will again be mirrored back at the "celebrity") is hugely offensive. It smacks of a hubris that we are only too accustomed to eating. And it makes me gag.

I mean really. I've already learned how to put my own gas in the car. What more does Gordie want from me? Tell him to go poach his own damn quenelles.

Well, okay. I'll spill the beans. Actually, I didn't "spill" the beans. That. . .was split pea soup. I had to make it for a pot luck thing at the kids school - and as I was dashing back and forth between children and cat and ringing telephone, it started boiling. Ah, such lovely scum rises from split pea soup! Naturally, my thoughts went to this thread. I wanted to join in the halls of fame. So even though I had started skimming, I hastily threw it all back on. And went to grab my trusty camera. And I must say that my photography skills added an undeniably frightful look that did not even exist in real life! Woooo hoooo! If I had to title the thing, I would call it "Old Milt on a Massive Scale". Heh. ................................................. I feel so. . . .VALIDATED! Sigh. Must do this again some time. P.S. Actually, as so many of these things are, it was quite tasty.

Is this disgusting or what?

Okay, I'll bite. What is it: the dreaded, overcooked red X? ← Heh. I got all excited because I saw an answer and now I see that my photo is only coming up "sometimes" and the rest of the time it just says "user posted image". Just goes to show how regrettable my photo-posting skills are, too. Let me try to figure it out - it may be a little while because I actually have to finish cooking dinner. Pah.

Okay. Here. I did this on purpose, just for you guys. C'mon, ask me what that IS.

I could care less what he does or says. Just as long as he keeps that tongue out of any newspaper I have to look at.

Those pears - they almost look as if they were in a Dutch painting rather than in a real Dutch life, Chufi! Gorgeous.

Your points are valid, Corinna - except that I can not believe that his shock tactics will either entice nor charm any woman into wanting to enter a home kitchen.

So he IS being sexist. Just checking. ← Yeah. He's sexist and using it to get attention for himself, too.

Again, I would like to mention the value that "professionalism" (or even aspects of all that glitters) holds here in our society (USA). I tell people that I was an Executive Chef and I am wreathed with smiles and interest, with curious questions and excitement from people. I tell people that I am a mother - who cooks for her children at home - and the sorts of things that I like to make. . .and I am suddenly surrounded by a fog of glazed disinterest, with glances around to see who else might be pounced on by the audience for a "better story". When (or where) home cooking is respected by the society, you will have people cooking at home.

Extending the quote from GR I made in my earlier post, you can see that he is saying that the same standard does appear to apply to young men: "Seriously, there are huge numbers of young women out there who know how to mix cocktails but can't cook to save their lives, whereas men are finding their way into the kitchen in ever growing numbers." I'd agree with that as well - all the friends of my generation who are most into cooking are men. ← I know equal amounts of people (male/female) both older and younger that are "into cooking". Let's face it - it is not the most common thing to find in a person today. One small difference here that has some sort of internal effect that I'd like to mention, though: Men who enter the home kitchen are lauded and hung with accolades, slapped on the back and told what a fine fellow they are. (And indeed, they certainly are.) Women who enter the home kitchen are *generally* not. Generally what they hear is a holler out from the other room of "Bring me a beer, will ya?"

Let's take another look: Clickie

Gordon Ramsay's statements are designed to get attention. For himself, not for any goal of solving any greater "social problem."

Yeah. The problem is that kids are getting fed utter *shite*. I don't know the answer, that's for sure. But I do know that pointing fingers at *one* group as was done in that article (however it happened, through GR's antics or through the writer's words or through the editor' angle) is divisive and destructive rather than helpful. Sigh.

And I've figured out what *really* bothers me about Gordon Ramsay and this article. Don''t you think that any celebrity chef who sets himself up to be such a thing has a responsibility to be well. . .desireable? Sexy? .......................................................................... All I know is that if I were sitting across a table from a man having a wonderful dinner and all of a sudden he shoved his face towards me and stuck out his tongue with his eyes in huge round mad circles and with a diamond "F" from some dinky charm bracelet sitting sparkling in the gobs of spittle, there would definitely be no nooky that night from me. I'd pick up my damn miniskirt and take it elsewhere. Of course who knows. That ploy may have had millions of women swooning. I could be wrong.

"Home cooking" is not something that is valued in our society today in the US as a general rule. Women may stand out as being different from their mothers or grandmothers in this respect today because they have *not* been encouraged to learn the ways of the home kitchen. (We'll set aside men who are another topic - just to avoid confusion here.) Women today have the defined task in our society (as a general rule) that is the same as men: to develop their own capabilities into something that could be called a "career" or at the least, a "job" that will bring in income. Oh, plus they still are the ones that bear children. Nobody has quite figured out how to completely equalize this thing between the sexes yet. Our mothers and grandmothers performed a needed task when they cooked. The food *needed* to be prepared for the family. There were not the options for finding ready-made meals everywhere else in sight, as there is now. And they were (hopefully) appreciated when they did this neccesary task. Walk into a room full of people chatting some day. Watch the woman who is telling someone about her new job and her marvellous career prospects. Watch the response of people to her - both men and women. Then watch the woman who is telling someone about what she cooked for her family's dinner the night before. Watch the response of people to her - again, both men and women. ................................................................ It is natural for people to aim towards doing things that will bring them appreciation and rewards. Young women today are not thinking of being homemakers "first". They are thinking of finding some sort of way to support themselves financially "first". Then all they have to worry about, later, is how to make a great meal in the time left after work after doing the housecleaning and after taking care of the kids. That's all they have to figure out. Minor stuff.