Carrot Top

That sounds like an appalling situation, andiesenji...one wants to take these sorts of people and send them off to a small farm somewhere miles from anywhere without a telephone or transportation and watch as they try to find their way.... . I see this more often in children, and more often in the children of today than of when I was a child of course (the usual historic refrain.... ) I think it might have to do with the ease and plenty of food today. They don't like what's on the table, it is easy for them to go to the fridge and get something else to 'nuke'. Actually, it is often encouraged for kids to find something for themselves to eat...for parents arrive home from work and there is half an hour before hopping back in the car to take the kid to soccer practice, ballet, whatever....which of course leads me to the next thing that floors me...how often children eat their dinners in the car! I think about three out of five weekday dinners are eaten on-the-run by kids today... One of the funniest 'thank-you' cards I got from the kids after doing that 'fresh corn' thing at the school was from a boy who decorated the card nicely (sixth graders really start to show their artistic abilities...it is great to see!) and wrote inside: "Thanks for the corn. My mom loved eating it while she took me to football practice. It was good." Raw corn. Wrapped in wax paper with bits of butter smooshed on it. That...was Mom's supper. (!) So thankful am I to contribute to the greater food pleasures of the world. But the original thing...in my first post...was more about having a client, say for a catering job...and trying to write a menu...going in with no presuppositions and allowing them free rein. Yikes! I am sure you have experienced this situation, too..... ...it seems each person's even more 'normal' food preferences and needs can fill a standard size notebook!

Consistently floors me how completely emotionally involved the vast majority of people on earth are with their food...not to say they are 'gourmet' or not...but try to plan a menu for someone...anyone...and you will find a zillion things that they can not tolerate/despise/will not taste....and another billion things that they love/need to have to eat/feel are indispensible in the situation. People....of all kinds and styles...they all do this. They might not give a hoot about what clothes they put on in the morning....they might have the sloppiest-kept house in the world....they may not care or know a thing about their own government or politics or anyone elses....but try to write a menu for them? Pandora's box.

that is the funniest thing ever....I can see it now....

Just all-American marketing techniques. Someone figured apples are boring, too 'usual' for the foodie customer in search of new tastes, so they developed this thing, packaged it up pretty, and charge three or four times the cost of a regular apple. My twelve year old daughter wanted to try it last time we were at the grocery store. I told her sure, if she wanted to spend her own allowance on it.... We brought Gala apples home, on my tab.

Now images of 'Goodfellas' are flashing through my mind. What a terribly exciting life you food reviewers lead....with all the pitfalls of expensive pens that might leak onto the pure creamy sauces as you surreptitiously scribble notes...wigs that might catch fire over the flickering candlelight as you lean close to take a better look at the lobster's prickly visage...chef's knives flashing in the background of the kitchen vying for your attentions and lying in wait to pounce if threatened....and now...being 'made'. Sinister. ('Yeah, he's a 'made' guy...watch out....). Who needs to watch the Sopranos. We will watch the Critics.

Is this a new variation on the saying 'The Pen is mightier than the Sword'? Now it is...'The Chef's Knife is mightier than the Pen'....hmmmm. I sort of like that....

I haven't wanted to respond to this thread, (because who wants to sound depressing about depressing things, you know... ) but anyway I guess I will just for the sole purpose of stopping thinking about it... 'Does the simple act of cooking....help to dissipate sadness and grief'...to my mind, there are some sadnesses or griefs that not much can dissipate...they are serious and deep griefs to which there is no realistic solution to hold onto in any way. If a person's life path steers them clear of these sorts of griefs...then they are simply blessed...though surely there will be other sorts of grief. But some people's life paths hold these griefs, and it is something they bear and live with. It is almost...insulting to the person's soul and spirit....to think that anything could allieviate the pain or despair. It simply is lived with and put on the back burner hopefully to be forgotten in day to day life. With lesser sadnesses and griefs, yes, of course cooking can do all the good things you mentioned above. In many of the previous posts, people mentioned cooking for others in their times of sadness. This is love personified and made real, in something that can be held, tasted, seen, smelled....and remembered on the palate and in the heart. Gifts of food are gifts of sustenance. It is harder...for one to be able to do this for themselves...if there is nobody around that knows them well enough to do it for them. But even then...the simple reality of seeing food...a bright red shining pepper turned on its side...a floppy bunch of celery staunch and aromatic at the market....a popcorn machine flipping out hot white kernels of puffy sweet saltiness....even seeing food can improve the mood of someone that is unhappy. You don't have to do a thing...the food is just there, gently smiling in its own way...in a welcome to join in life. What caught my real interest in thinking about this, was in thinking of what foods I would cook, to raise the dead...to lift a seriously depressed person out of the doldrums. First I would saute some onions slowly in butter. No garlic, that would be too bold, to insinuating, too pushy. Then the best most aromatic coffee available...would be put on to fill the house with its demanding warm aroma. Bacon? No...somehow it is too rude. Cinnamon buns...made with fresh yeast, allowed to rise twice at least...the yeasty buttery bright cinnamon scent tattooing a demand to rise and eat. None of this need be eaten. It is only for the scents.... Later, sweet hot mint tea. One fresh perfect fig. Then finally, even later.... the most intense, rich, pure, jelly jiggling cup of chicken broth imaginable. I can not imagine, that anyone capable of rising from pain would not be risen by these gentle teasing things. What would you make?

Cooking definitely helps alleviate the dreadful despair that I would feel at needing to eat at McDonalds if I did not know how to cook.

Startling, that ingredient list, huh? Chef Boyardee is surely keeping America employed. Plus several other small countries, too, it is to be imagined. Lovely...sugar cane, sugar beets, grown in the tropical sunshine! And chemicals galore that require at least a Master's Degree in 'something' to build from whatever slop they manage to build it from. Thank goodness for higher education and the heights to which it has brought us!! Indeed, the very concept of canned spagetti is miles ahead of the usual stuff, no? for as we all know...the tomato is botanically a fruit...so sugar is naturally a good combiner with it. What we are really getting here...is dessert for our main course. Who could want more in this busy world? All on one plate. Now if they could figure out a way to have cake and eat it too, the ultimate philosophic pinnacle would be reached. All through food. Bliss.

Yes...the service is top-notch for anywhere in the world...as are the facilities. And they do work with local farmers to have them grow produce and meat(s) to exact specs. No small feat. And when it works right, it glows.

I am always somewhat surprised by The Greenbrier. It is really smack dab in the middle of Almost-Nowhere (which is something like Almost-Heaven), West Virginia. You drive through miles of nothing, and then there it is. It is imposing...and it is elegant and it has the same aura that other resort hotels such as The Breakers hold. There is no wandering in...by 'just anybody' here. Your car will not be parked by the valet unless there is good reason to be there. It is old world WASP snotty in its own charming way. There are dress codes. You will see families with small children...where even the children are wearing dresses or nice pants rather than jeans. The food? It can be very good during the seasons that the hotel is sure to be well booked. But again, this is an old WASP'y place, and tasty exciting food is not right up at the top of most old WASP families Wish Lists. If one orders well, one might get something quite tasty, but that is not what sells the place to the people that frequent it year after year. On the other hand, it hosts cooking classes both for adults and for children year-round, with major cookbook authors and chefs coming in to teach for a week or two at a pretty penny. And there is the food writers conference, too...here is the link: http://www.greenbrier.com/foodwriters/ (Looks like Ruhlman is going to appear at this year's conference...) One other very nice thing about The Greenbrier is that they are working within the community to improve and develop opportunities for young people who might wish to enter the world of fine dining or other foodservice careers...by financially supporting and being quite involved in the operation of a new curriculum which is offered at the very small Greenbrier Community College (part of the WVU system but not a well-known one) and by also offering work-study programs for degree-seeking students. Finally...I must say...where else can one go to study 'falconry' as part of a vacation package?!

It should not have to be an optimal situation, though. It should be a regular situation. There is a very simple management tool called the Job Description. A well-written job description states exactly which tasks each defined job encompasses and at what level of compentency these tasks are expected to be done by the person that is hired to do that job. Any person who accepts the job must also accept and sign off that they clearly understand the responsibilities and tasks that the job demands...and generally if there are more than one 'group' of types of employees working together to create a product or service, the tasks defined in the various job descriptions fit together in the best manner for the business and for the people working there. If the tasks are not being performed by the person(s) in an acceptable manner, then they should be called on it. And called on it again and again until they get it right and stop disturbing the work flow and pleasant atmosphere that should exist in a well-managed place. Obviously each business will (or should) have clearly defined limits as to how often an employee will be counseled by management for performance-based issues before that employee would be considered for termination...and this is something that also should be made clear and signed off on during the hiring process. What disturbs me even more than the fact that this simple management task is not done as often as it could or should be...(for everyone spends a great deal of their time at work when they do have a full time job...and there is no reason on earth for it to be unpleasant...what a waste of the precious stuff of life, which is time!) is that still, in this business, the restaurant business...we still hear of chefs who throw things at people, who are allowed screaming tantrums, etc...based on the fact that 'it has always been that way'...or 'they are creative'. Utter nonsense. They need to stop this act, and they need to start acting the same way professionals in other businesses do or they will not ever, really, be considered of the same ilk. To throw something at a person with intent to hurt them...on any street in the USA... could be considered assault. Why...should it be tolerated...in a kitchen?

There is supposed to be something called a manager. On organization charts, whether drawn out or just in the staffs heads...this is who they report to. It is the managers responsibility and part of their ongoing daily job to be sure that BOH and FOH respect each other and get along. If there is no manager that is in charge, ultimately, of BOTH groups, that is a problem. If there is a manager that is in charge that is wandering around and not addressing the BOH vs. FOH situational workings, that is a problem too. If there is a manager who thinks their job is to be in the office doing officework all day or night and not walking the floor, that is a problem too. A good, caring manager can cut this crap between BOH and FOH out, for the most part. It is not something that is required to operate...and it is not something that is 'inherent in the business' unless you allow it to be. It is truly a crying shame that this business that supposedly offers 'hospitality' and happiness on a plate...puts up with this operational nonsense with the people that are working in it.

There is only one Great One in the world of canned spagettis. It has the ultimate in gooey disgusting messy sweet tomato-y goodness. No, no, these Spagetti-O's will not Do. They went all wrong with the silly notion of twising a perfectly good sauce-flecking piece of wet soft spagetti into a circle. Wrong, wrong texturally. It is vital to be able to slurp and swallow. And Chef Boyardee is always all about meat. Meatballs, meat bits, meat flavor. How to taste the sugary tomato sauce when it is embellished with hearty meat? Pah. The Great One. Is France-American Spagetti. Plain, simple, pure. The ultimate mess.

You show great talent at these matchings, GG. Are you ready for our second business venture? "Tasting Menus a la 50's". Small diner-like places with jukeboxes and booths, waitresses on roller skates, and formica-topped tables where we will serve prix-fixe tasting menus of these sorts of items. Low food cost....lots of upscale entertainment value....we can charge an arm and a leg. Absolutely no nutritive value so the customers will break out in zits therefore requiring them to visit our shop next door, "Soup on your Face". Gosh, I just love you. You are a business-idea generating mensch. Must go. Hairstyles to consider. Bouffant? or ponytail....

When a customer sits down in a restaurant, they expect a lot. They expect to be cared for, hopefully to be catered to, to have a good meal that is to their tastes and liking including all food prejudices and loves, and to be understood in what they want and like and then to get it all at a fair price. On the customer side, people are as varied as they are in real life. You will see the same amount of cheapskates...the same amount of people who want to 'put one over on someone' (and my goodness this group seems to be growing, in my opinion!)...the same amount of just plain nice people....and the same amount of people who are incapable of speaking up for what they want, thereby never really managing to get it. And they of course, expect to be served by a person that is well-trained. Not only in carrying food to the table...which is the physical side of the job....but also in the sorting-out of what their personal desires are...which is the emotional or psychological part of the job. And who...are generally our servers in the US? And how well...are they usually trained? And...is the art of providing good service (with the implicit fact that providing good service to someone involves a bit of sublimation of self) admired in a person...in this country? And is the job of waiter/waitress one that is held up to be something admirable in itself...or is it something simply one might have to do to get through college.... Our servers are mostly young people. They are working their way through college...or working while they figure out 'What it is they really want to do' because this job is not commonly considered a profession in this country. They are generally taught how to deliver the food to the table, but are often not taught or trained in the least, as far as personal dynamics or the finer points of pleasing at table. They are not generally respected...in the ways that other professionals are respected here. And then we wonder....why? Why so much mess in the area of service to the customer. The art of service....and the job of being a server...will not improve until it is given its due respect. It is at least a two way street...and more likely it is a crossroads, this situation. Hidden extras are one very small part of it. The whole thing, overall, is very aggrevating and not a happy one for anybody.

But Soba, have you tried them with a can of Spagetti-O's ever-so-gently warmed to perfection then poured over the top? Even Darth Vader would love to sit down to a meal of this...heaven...sheer heaven.

Oh please...do go off on a rampage later in the form of a different thread.

There is a savor to a personally handmade book that is the same as the savor of a personally handmade meal. I find the idea completely entrancing. If there is just one to make, and you have the time and desire to do so...well. Wow. Yes.

That was rather sickeningly marvellous. I say sickeningly not because of anything you posted but for goodness sake. I am totally jealous. What's up for next summer...Europe by mini-bike?

Those boys from 'Almost Heaven, West Virginia' really can swing a mean saute pan when motivated, huh Susan?

Great stuff, chrisamirault. My children have been brought up with most of this in place since the beginning (but for the fact that I just can't take the sight of TOO much chocolate cake on the face and will send the do-er off to get cleaned up! but I understand the initial issue here is not food but the control interaction between child and parent...the constant power struggle....that if once engaged in, increases! - P.S. I am searching for a 'tired', very tired, smilie face here but find none -) In my opinion, I've seen the idea you present work, both here and the few times I've seen someone try to take the time to implement it in schools. Problem is, often there is not a lot of supervision while the children are eating 'nowadays' in the way of being at table together. I actually see more kids being put on diets by their parents who are also on the same diets. Which seems to last about a week or two. It is really sad and rather stunning, this nationwide obesity problem. But as you stated about children, it is the same with adults. They also have control over what goes in their mouths. And there is certainly enough education out there. But of course it is often conflicting, too. And then the human mind wants to go for the 'quick fix' and I can't say that that helps either...does it? Is there a 'quick fix'...for lots of real problems? jgm brought to attention the fact that many Americans have forgotten how to cook. In my children's schools I see this every day, when I go to volunteer or offer a cooking class that interacts with the curriculum. The most recent experience that I had was with a group of forty-two 6th Grade students of whom only twelve had ever held an ear of fresh corn in their hands in their entire eleven years on this earth, to shuck it. This is serious disconnection from food, from the earth that produces it, and finally from real and good, tastes. Food feeds us in many ways and lots of these ways are ephemeral. There is a sense of reality...a sense of connectedness...a sense of worth and of pride...that comes from good tasting food fresh from the earth and not from a can or a box. This has been lost, here...now...to a lot of people. Of course the final problem in all this is even finding decent, full-tasting fruit, veggies, even meats and poultry in the average grocery store. But that's another whole issue, isn't it.

Great rant, jgm. I am in agreement with you.

Tater Tots, Schmater Tots. Lightweight appetizers at best. Let's hear you talk some potato KNISHES now, guys. Then I'll take you seriously.

It's a good kind of hurt though, right? ← Oh well. I'll let you believe that if it makes you happy... All I can say is...generally I can eat as much junk food as the next guy (the next guy who will admit it, anyway) but right now I REALLY feel the need for a very very green salad! Even reading this thread is making me burp. That certain sort of fatty fast food burp. Phew. Help. I must exit.... Keep this up and you'll turn me to tofu and edamame. That would be a crying shame.