Nathan

interesting...they've upped the tasting menu considerably in cost. it was once quite the bargain...I wonder if the ala carte prices have changed?

I coined a drink this weekend that seemed to work well: 1 part gin, 1 part pear liquor, 1/2 part apricot brandy, shake well with ice...then add a touch of tonic water and pour into a martini glass.

but it is in exactly the same price category. and that's my problem with TTR

I don't want to speak for Eatmywords but I think it's fair to say that he disliked The Tasting Room more than I did but has had superlative things to say about Blue Hill. I found that telling.

alas, I haven't eaten at Blue Hill yet. I've been meaning to. according to menupages, the prices at Blue Hill are exactly the same as at The Tasting Room: http://www.menupages.com/restaurantdetails...d=0&cuisineid=0

"But are we SURE it's REALLY as expensive as Perry Street?" absolutely. average entree price at The Tasting Room on Saturday night...$30...and I'm not exaggerating. one was $26, some were $32. entrees at Perry Street are at exactly the same price point. apps are also similar.

the prices aren't modest. for me, a restaurant's prices, in and of themselves, are a direct indicator of a restaurant's ambitions. That's why Little Owl overperforms and why I see Tasting Room as under-delivering (by a large margin).

I'm afraid that I had a very mediocre meal here on Saturday. (Eatmywords was along as well and will no doubt chime in at some point.) Collectively, we tried a good deal of the late summer menu so I feel comfortable in saying that we had a reasonable sampling. It may be that the culinary aesthetic of The Tasting Room is simply not conducive to the appetizer/entree format, in which case they should have stuck to their old "Tastes" format. Almost every dish was missing something...a sauce, an emulsion, something to bind the ingredients together. something to demonstrate artistry (especially at the price point...in ambience and location The Tasting Room is a "neighborhood restaurant"...heck, I literally live a block and a half down the street...unfortunately, with $15 apps and $30 entrees (on average)...its prices evince a stronger ambition). The stuffed chicken breast app was the best dish of the night. I believe SneakEater discussed this at length before. The braised turbot entree was also quite good. Every other dish was composed of excellent ingredients, cooked well enough but with no creativity whatsoever. Frankly, with some effort, I could have made them myself. The smoked eel app was, well, that. There was some sort of fowl terrine (guinea hen?), it wasn't foul but wasn't interesting. The pork entree was overcooked and had 20% of the taste of the chop at Little Owl but was significantly more expensive. We had some sort of striped bream or bass entree that was absolutely forgettable. There was another app which I've completely forgotten. The wine list is, of course, notable and different. It's a shame because I really want to like this place...ingredient-driven restaurants are exactly in-keeping with my palate. But when it's simply ingredients cooked well enough, tossed together on a plate, and then charged at prices which can get you a meal at Perry Street (with the same quality ingredients but with real culinary mastery as well)....I simply feel fleeced. Nothing was bad, but with one or two exceptions, nothing was really good.

I don't see any issue (and indeed find it necessary) with basing an opinion upon the perceptions of other people who have known palates. i.e. either palates which I know to be similar to mine, or ones where the dissimilarities are absolutely clear and thus can be accounted for just as easily. the mistake is to base one's opinions upon unknown palates. put it this way: I don't have to waste a $100 at Tavern on the Green to know the food sucks.

Theresa, I haven't found the secondi to have the same consistency...but then my sample size is admittedly small (I've only been to Lupa a couple times since Del Posto opened)...however, if you check the Lupa thread I think I'm not the only one with this impression...

"stained mirrors, black and white tile floor... small table and wobbly chair. it was very new york lower east side." only a couple years ago that statement would have had me laughing hysterically....

Vadouvan: agreed. I assume there's a Nikon equivalent to the Canon 50/1.8 (a great if limited low light lens and the greatest bargain in photography at $75)?...but like I said, even P&S, which I think most people here use usually have high-ISO options..eliminating the need for a flash

I believe Alinea bans flash photography.

ah, the parochialism of NY'ers... Vino Venue in San Francisco is a wine-serving automat. no whiskey though. until recently, Amtrak had an automat car on the Chicago to Grand Rapids run. you can't get more midwestern than that. ditto for the automat drivethrough McDonald's in suburban Illinois, the drivethrough truck stop automat Wendy's.... heck, I recall eating at an automat in Sweden when I was 6 or 7... of course, there was that "Overheard" column in the Times a while back that referenced a conversation between a young married couple discussing taking a job somewhere else in the U.S. "But we won't have the amenities of NY, things like ATMs!"

maybe if people knew how to shoot at high ISO's and not use the flash in formal restaurants there wouldn't be the backlash against photographing your food... I know this is anathema on egullet, but I find flash photography inside a formal restaurant to be really disruptive. most of the fancier point and shoots that people seem to be using these days have an option to up the ISO. you can always clean out any noise and grain afterward in photoshop. and if you have a DLSR there is simply no excuse at all. the assumption that you have to use flash in low lighting comes from the days of film cameras when it was impossible to get a decent shot at an ISO above 400.

I don't think they'll have that issue here. The staff in NY appear to have primarily come from the previous restaurant at the Four Seasons...they're not starting ex nihilo they way they might be in Las Vegas. The service on Saturday was polished, if slightly too effusive.

of course, there are backup options within a block of Ino that would be perfectly satisfactory...

I don't think anyone has been rapturous about the meal. Sneakeater liked it more than I did....I thought that at times it was very good and other times simply not good enough for the price point. I basically predicted two stars and think that's exactly what Bruni will give it. I think we might have had a different amuse, though frankly, I don't remember mine at all.

Otto gets my vote. Great and well-priced Italian wine-list. stick to pastas, meats, contorini and gelato. Very well-priced. (personally, I like some of the pizzas but no one else does...)

one comment on letting the sommelier know your price range: a slightly more indirect way to to do it is simply to say: I was thinking about either "Bottle A" or "Bottle B"...one of which should be at the top of your price range and one at the bottom; further, you could even try to pick bottles along your tastes...an experienced sommelier will understand what you're telling him/her.

"Once when I still had a living spouse we went somewhere where we were like the only people in the room who weren't obviously on a first date. I wish I could remember where it was." Il Buco comes to mind as probably being it. Its a standard first date place that actually has decent food. The Place is another possibility (both for where you were and as a suggestion for the OP). Personally, I never do dinnah on the first date...but if I did, I'd probably do Grand Sichuan as a test...

on a quick note: I think your dessert was $12 or $14. and no, i don't think that particular item was a bad value. I compared it to Bar Room at the Modern insofar as they are similar in layout and concept (at least purportedly). but yeah, I too am not sure how to talk about it...

I dined at Atelier on Saturday evening (along with Sneakeater). When I arrived at 8 the dining bar was half empty; it was almost full when we left at 10:30. For budgetary reasons I eschewed the tasting menu (although if one ordered all of its components ala carte (unusually, all of the dishes on the tasting menu are also available ala carte) one would pay almost double for its individual constituents). The decor is adequate, with the open kitchen and the bar surrounding being much more impressive than the room overall. Its a casual but comfortable and well-designed setting (the bar anyway). The menu is divided into small tastings, appetizers (most of which were available in tasting portions as well), and entrees. I had the langoustine fritter...this has been discussed elsewhere and is terrific. The basil sauce complements nicely. The seared squid with chorizo and tomato water would have been terrific, if the squid wasn't overcooked. Every other component of the dish was outstanding. I split the "Alsatian pastrami" with Sneakeater. Let's just say that Katz's does not have the best pastrami in New York anymore. I had an entree of quail stuffed with foie gras and served with Robuchons' famous mashed potatoes which are pretty much entirely butter and covered with shaved black truffle. The dish was as luxurious as it sounds, though not more than the sum of its parts. Food, one cocktail and two glasses of wine, tax and tip worked out to about $150. The only dining experience in NY analogous to Atelier is Bar Room at the Modern. Atelier is obviously much better in terms of food (and I love Bar Room) but the ambience is roughly comparable. The service at Atelier is somewhat more polished but equivalently informal. However, although Atelier is "better" than Bar Room, it is also two to five times the price. And, Atelier's tasting menu at $165 is as expensive as only one or two restaurants in the city. However, Atelier is simply too informal to be considered a four star restaurant. Neither is the food polished or consistent enough. To use the much criticized star system: Atelier is serving topnotch 3 star cooking at four star prices....if doing the tasting menu...and although one can do it "on a budget" as I did....I'm glad I had a large lunch and a snack in preparation...

Do your lunch at JG (though a dinner would certainly be great as well)...its the best restaurant in NY (except for possibly Per Se and Ducasse which I have not been to). WD is similar to FD and PG in that it is "hypermodern" but it is nowhere near as formal. Alinea in Chicago is probably much more comparable to FD or PG.

no one gets headaches from pigging out on Dorito's or heirloom tomatoes. That's my point.