Nathan

oakapple: we took the guide a heck of a lot more seriously than everyone else. yeah, people were buying it as novelty gifts. but NY'ers don't actually use it (even though they should)

I don't think too many NY'ers bought the guide. Were people curious about the stars? Yes. But they weren't buying the book to find that out. People were circulating e-mail lists and the like.

comment on Danko above: "Neither of these factors have any impact on my experience. I have always received amazing food, service and ambiance in a ultra-luxurious yet casual, relaxed and not-stuffy environment. I think that it is this balance that local diners have come to love while it is this balance that is not fully understood by the folks at Michelin." It sounds like they understood it perfectly. You've just described the prototypical one-star Michelin restaurant. Most of the comments on this thread are much ado about nothing because most of them display a complete ignorance as to what the Michelin stars mean. I'm not familiar with the bay area dining scene so I can't speak as to the accuracy of the ratings other than to say that it sounds like it is full of marvelous one-star Michelin restaurants. I can speak to NY and I'll say that except for a couple outliers it is generally agreed that Michelin did an excellent job in NY...probably the biggest complaint being that it probably bestowed three stars on one or two too many restaurants.

There's enough money in a five block radius around Perry Street to easily support it. Sure, it draws a crowd from all over...any restaurant with JG's name will. With that said, Sunday through Wednesday is going to be a pretty local crowd there. That's simply not true for Ducasse. The menu format, the decor, and the format (heck, it serves brunch at a complete loss) all mitigate against it being a "destination restaurant"..the fact that it still is one says something about the quality of the cooking. My point is: just because it would not be a neighborhood restaurant on most blocks is irrelevant to whether it is intended to be one on its block.

I'm not sure what your point is. You post on egullet so you're representative of NY dining consumers how?

well, I agree that NY'ers aren't buying the Guide. unfortunately, they're using Zagat instead.

it most certainly is intended to be a version of a neighborhood restaurant. that is the concept. I also know for a fact that there indeed are residents of the towers that treat it as almost a sort of "room service" and that indeed there are people in the neighborhood that drop in on a regular basis. one can always eat in the lounge sans reservation and ditto for the dining room at lunch (or dinner late). when I say "neighborhood restaurant" I also mean that in a sense very specific to that neighborhood. consider the median income of residents of the surrounding blocks (I am most certainly not at that median).

to clarify: I didn't mean to imply that Bruni thinks it is three-star food, he didn't say. I think it is very high-level three (sometimes four) star food.

well, as Bruni makes clear in today's review: Atelier has indeed dropped their prices. As I've said, Atelier clearly served 3 (and sometimes 4) star food in a 3-star ambience with 3 star service...the problem was the four star prices. although the main tasting menu is still an outlier it appears that most of the prices are now in line with the food and the rating makes sense.

as to whether Michelin deserves its influence. yes. for one simple reason: if a non-foodie or someone unfamiliar with NY asked for recommendations as to the "best restaurants in the city" I could either go into a long spiel; or I could refer them to the Michelin Guide which dovetails quite accurately with what I would have told them in a couple hours. its purpose is not to tell us anything we don't know. (though the Saul pick was interesting) In other words, the Guide is written for someone unfamiliar with the NY dining scene. And it serves that purpose better than any of its analogues. Much better actually.

"Saying that, I still think my analogy is accurate and credible. If an expert witness is successfully challenged and proved to be inconsistent (I used "wrong" earlier because I was playing off the word "correct" used elsewhere by others) 20% of the time, then said individual would not be considered the definitive expert for long." huh? wtf? I can assure you that an expert witness who has been on the winning side 80% of the time (or has had a jury accept their damages calculation 80% of the time -- which would never happen by the way) would be in incredibly high demand. (how do I derive that 80% figure for the Michelin Guide? let's just say that it tracks NY foodie consensus remarkably well -- when criticisms can be reduced to literally only a couple outliers (La Goule/Spotted Pig) and that it didn't mention Katz's for its pastrami (that critique I've never understood) and questions as to whether LB and JG should have gotten 2 instead of 3 stars....that's a pretty darn high batting average. (the criticisms coming out of SF right now appear to primarily stem from a complete misunderstanding of what a Michelin star means)

its literally intended to be a "neighborhood restaurant". and now that I've moved a couple blocks away, it will be.

that makes no sense whatsoever. there's a heck of a lot more individual taste involved with cuisine than with testimony that could pass Daubert scrutiny. that's why the Michelin ratings for NY are remarkable.

Rich, I don't even comprehend your point. If we did a poll of egullet regulars on the top 37 restaurants there is no fricking way that we would end with more agreement than on the Michelin list. the amazing thing is how few clunkers there are on it. I don't know what you're smoking but I want some of it.

"I guess you're right Nathan - 80% is much more acceptable these days than 20 years ago. Times change, people have learned to accept mediocrity as the norm." oh come on! I defy you to find any food critic's list of any era where you agree with more than 80% of their list.

I don't know about that: as I noted way up this thread...what was remarkable was how much they got right...I'd say that easily 80% of their picks can't be criticized. you're grading on a very tough curve then. (I'm referring to NY, not SF)

that's why I said it was an explanation of "what a single star means"

"This is the purest and most indefensible kind of groundless internet speculation, but I wonder how much that longevity is attributable to indulgent investors." I have heard comments to that effect from people in the industry. I have no knowledge as to the veracity of those comments.

ate here on Friday with Sneakeater and EatMyWords. we had a Mandarin speaker and recent resident of Shanghai at the table who had heard good things about this place while in Shanghai. the xiao long bao were better than Joe's...the broth being especially tasty. the pork with baby bok choy was equivalent to the one at Yeah Shanghai...terrific after you cut through the fat. an eel dish was a revelation. shredded pieces of bbq eel interspersed with shredded veggies. absolutely terrific. several other dishes were all tasty and well-prepared. highly recommend.

interesting explanation of what a single star means from the Michelin director here: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file...MNGSULH7QL1.DTL in other words, price matters

Actually, Pegu Club is easily as close to Otto as Blue Owl. Ditto for Employee's Only.

I don't at all doubt that you have nasty headaches. but a. I don't see what the connection is between sulfites and glutamates is that you see. b. Trader Joe's doesn't add MSG to anything. so, the fact that you got a nasty headache from a non-glutamate-heavy foodstuff indicates that such headaches are not necessarily indicative of being caused by glutamates.

last night I had a peak at the upcoming new menu. conceptually it is the most interesting one yet. I'm very excited about the cocktails.... should be available in a couple weeks.

I like the gender ratio in that shot. This could be the first majority-female steakhouse in world history.

alas...liverwurst that's not from Bar Room at the Modern usually sucks...you'll see.