Nathan

"Actually, the controversy in SF came from inaccurate reviews. After the book came out, it was found in the blurbs that the writers cited restaurant features, staff members and menu items that hadn't been in the restaurants for years--well before the evaluation period was to begin." a. that was a minor part of the controversy. b. it turned out that some of the supposed inaccuracies were, in fact, accurate. (some of this rested on misunderstandings of the exact technical role that people affiliated with certain restaurants played...does anyone really want to call out the late R.W. Apple for talking about JG Shanghai as being the best of the JG restaurants in his last article? (technically inaccurate because JG Shanghai is not a JG restaurant but rather a franchise...they paid to use his name (and he trained the opening staff))) raji: do you have a candidate for a more accurate list? Zagat? all Times 2, 3 and 4 starred restaurants?, Gayot? thought not. in other words, I think it's obvious that the Michelin list is objectively the most accurate of any PUBLISHED list of the best restaurants in NY. I'm sure everyone of us has a more accurate list in our own minds....though if we actually got together and voted on a list it might not be any more accurate (too many disagreements here...)

there are many great whites from the Rioja region. and plenty of crappy ones. can't say I'm any more or less passionate about it than any of the other great wine regions.

Raj, I don't think they were trying to stir controversy at all. They'd have to something far more drastic to create real controversy and PR.... Including Saul and not including Yasuda might be controversial to a tiny set of 20 people on egullet....but not to the dining public at large. (the controversy in SF stems from people completely misunderstanding the Michelin system)

you know, even thought I criticize them for not fixing the mistakes of last year....it is still the best single critical list to NY dining ever assembled. and that's an accomplishment. EMP is a massive oversight...except that it might be for legitimate timing reasons. as for Del Posto...some people have had great meals there...who knows? (though 2 stars is hard to defend) but overall, as with last year, it is still top to bottom, 80% accurate....and there's a lot to be said for that.

official explanation on ADNY is here: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/24/dining/2...artner=homepage

your list was great as it was. you'd clearly done your research. drop the bbq joints. definitely JG over Nougatine for lunch.

The Spotted Pig is the worst restaurant to receive a Michelin star. Surprised it still has one. overall, although I was a fan of last year's list (it was much more accurate than expected)...this one is disappointing because the outliers from last year have not been corrected....

Hmmm...I don't know. I don't think being American is the issue. I grew up in Europe (albeit as an expat) and my Italian, though thickly accented, isn't clearly American. And my attire isn't at all American. It is true that there is a custom of solo dining in NY (even at the most expensive restaurants) that colors things....one will choose to eat solo at even the top end in NY simply because one may not know many people willing to dine at that price point and because although one can afford to pay for oneself, paying for a date as well is too dear. But I haven't had a problem being seated elsewhere in Europe. I've only traveled solo in Italy once...and that was in Rome last year...where it was literally impossible to be seated. These were restaurants that were a. clearly comfortable with having foreign guests; and b. not full. So, I made a general surmise that Italian restauranteurs are uncomfortable with somewhat young (I'm 31), solo foreign diners who are apparently not business travelers....I think it seems "off" to them. (The NY custom of eating solo (or with a friend) at the bar stands out even in the rest of the U.S. More than once I've been amused to walk into Frontera Grill in Chicago on a weekend night...ascertain that there is a two hour wait for a table and then simply eat at the bar immediately....)

ah...so maybe it's a Rome thing. hopefully so.

thanks for the suggestions... "I've never had trouble being seated alone at a restaurant in Italy" I was in Rome solo last October and couldn't get seated anywhere. Literally impossible. Had one good meal at Trattoria Moderna (because it was 3/4ths empty)...

"decent South Indian veg food to be had in Chicago." Devon Avenue

I should note that PS can be full at prime dinner times...for dining room tables. it is the presence of the lounge that makes all the difference. LO, by reasons of space, only has a 4-seat bar in comparison. (Which leads to my one criticism of LO, they averr that they intend to attract a neighborhood crowd -- seating parties of 3 and 4 at the bar is not conducive to that purported intention.)

"My devil's-advocate question is: Suppose Perry St had been so fantastically successful that one could not walk in there without a reservation, and expect to be seated. Would that change your view of it?" in context of whether it is functionally a neighborhood restaurant...absolutely it would. LO is, without question, formally a neighborhood restaurant. However, it is not, at present, functionally a neighborhood restaurant. We have disagreed, earlier in this thread, over whether PS is formally a neighborhood restaurant; however, as last night illustrates, it is, without question, functionally a neighborhood restaurant. (Country, Ducasse et al are inapposite....they are much, much, much more formal restaurants than PS.) as for the price difference between LO and PS...you would be surprised how small the difference is. PS is quite a bit cheaper than most people think (sure, the wine list is such that one could spend much more....)

yeah...but I'm limited on time. basically my trip is designed around my flights and train timetables. the basic problem is that in my experience Italians don't eat at the bar (cichetti is a notable exception)....and they never eat solo.

I've put together a tentative schedule for my trip. I'm planning on Venice for two nights. Florence for most of a day. Bologna for the same night (I'm told the nightlife is much better..and the food as well?) and then Verona my final evening...

That wasn't a criticism of LO. But it makes it not a neighborhood restaurant in a functional sense. I think you miss my overall point. I live in the neighborhood. I can eat at Perry Street without a reservation. There are very few decent restaurants in the neighborhood where I can do that. If that doesn't make it a "neighborhood restaurant" than the term has lost all meaning. edit: my point wasn't that you can eat at PS anytime you want if you are a "regular" -- I'm not one, yet -- but rather that anyone can.

oh hell. yeah, early in the week is probably a bit better...but I don't eat large dinners early in the week. I was also told that LO keeps the bar (4 seats) and two tables open for walk-ins. Clearly it's not enough. One suggestion to the restaurant...it kind of spoils the point of bar dining when you're seating groups of 3 and 4 at the bar. I'd love to make this a true neighborhood place, somewhere where I'd eat every week. But, it's literally impossible to become a regular there. Perry Street, on the other hand,.....

I'll be in northern Italy in a week and a half for several days. I've found Italy to be one of the worse places in the world for solo dining (no one besides tourist traps will seat you...no matter how much you're willing to spend). I've perused the Venice thread of course...but other than the assumption (too optimistic?) that cichetti and wine bars will make my life somewhat easier...where can I actually get a good meal that will actually seat me? I won't be driving so things within walking or mass transit distance of town centers are necessary (I'm a NY'er so I take a pretty broad view of what constitutes walking distance)... TIA!

well, as far as I'm concerned, I've definitively settled once and for all whether Perry Street is a neighborhood restaurant. I live in the WV these days. On Horatio. Both Perry Street and Little Owl are quite close by. Last night I attempted to dine solo at the bar at Little Owl. I was looking at an hour and a half wait. So I dined at Perry Street without a problem instead. I've always been able to walk into Perry Street. For Little Owl and many another purportedly "neighborhood WV restaurant", such as August, this is an impossibility. (NOTE: I obviously do not blame these restaurants for their own popularity.) (I was told that about 40% of Little Owl's clientele are locals.) That settles it. It's my neighborhood and I can eat at Perry Street anytime I want. In the WV that is so exceptionable for a good restaurant that I don't see how it can't be a "neighborhood restaurant"...in a functional sense anyway. Case closed.

Hema's Kitchen Tiffin Sonargaon

Chicago

I've never known it to be entirely booked up for lunch. I do know that more people know about lunch at Nougatine than at JG. That $20.04 lunch is what grabs interest....and it's not like there's a website telling you about the other....

um, the price is the point. that, and there are some unique items that you can't get somewhere else...and certainly not at that price point. that Italian Blood Orange Soda is very good, not overly sweet, etc. I'm sure that Whole Foods has something similar...for three times the price. its house vegetable juice is better than V-8, and half the cost. etc. TJ's real advantage is in the frozen and jarred foods. no one is claiming that they are significantly higher in quality (although some items are)...but the prices are often literally half that of their competition. No, it's not Wegmans. but I'm really not sure what you're comparing it too. We don't have a Wegmans (and things cost much more there anyway). the quality level isn't at the D&D point...but the cost is about 1/5th. the quality level is equivalent to WF...on everything besides produce...and TJ's is half the cost. it is a niche store...it's not intended for one-stop shopping. but is it a godsend to Manhattan? heck yes.

ah...you don't work late. gotcha. as for Whole Foods...absolutely I think there's a connection. I have only shopped at WF for produce since TJ's opened.

I'm confused. you mean you work at nights? 6-8 P.M. is a prime time sure. but I rarely get out of the office that early. by 9 the line is never more than 5 minutes long at TJ's. (six months ago was a different story)