Nathan

that's sort of my point. I question whether any place in the WV could be a "neighborhood restaurant" based on the criteria I'm seeing here.

so, then, would it be fair to say that WV restaurants are almost universally designed to "look like" neighborhood restaurants? actually, I think that is literally the case. and, like I said, I see "neighborhood restaurant" as a form descriptor

like I said, the only reason I picked the place was because apparently it is mentioned in Shanghai as being one of the better/best restaurants to eat Shanghai-style in NY.

the reason that I brought up Wallse is twofold: it looks extremely "homey." it has a very residential and "homey" location. you know, based on some of the definitions I am seeing here, I question whether any restaurant can be considered a "neighborhood place" unless it is a diner or something close to it (i.e. Gitane). Is Ino a neighborhood place? August? Barbuto? or is there a sort of WV conundrum here...where it seems like every WV restaurant is styled to be cozy and familiar...and have a surfeit of local diners but yet are expensive and ambitious enough (in most cases) to draw diners from across the city.

you know, I keep wanting to eat here but I hate making reservations and it sounds like the walk-in thing is a pain...maybe they should just expand into the Jewel Bako space.

eh....a lot of places that serve brunch are incredibly packed on Saturday afternoon...and with plenty of non-locals: Prune, Pastis, Balthazar, Inoteca etc... here's a question: is Wallse a neighborhood restaurant by your lights? I'd note that it certainly looks like one.

I meant JS

you know, I dropped in for brunch at Perry St. with a couple other people on Saturday. the room was no more than a third full and pretty much all locals having casual meals. (at brunch they serve most of the dinner menu plus some inexpensive brunch items)... I'd argue that for lunch purposes there is no way that Perry St. could be classified as anything other than a neighborhood restaurant. In fact, by most criteria, it fits the label better than say, Prune.

you know, looking at Grimes' reviews, he appears to implicitly take the position that I did early in this thread: that "neighborhood place" is a descriptor of form, not quality.

leaving aside Bouley Bakery, Grimes considered Chanterelle to be a neighborhood restaurant! (I wouldn't go that far.) well, it sounds like there is no critical consensus as to what this "term of art" means.

I believe this is the first time in history that someone here has cited Bruni as an authority to make a point. So, yeah, Bruni's definition of a "neighborhood restaurant" may possibly not jibe with mine. Point?

put differently, the key words are not "roughly equivalent"...rather, they are "the Michelin explanation of a two star (or more) restaurant" in that phrase the noun is the word "explanation"...thus that is the word which "roughly equivalent" corresponds too.

um, here is what I wrote: "'Destination restaurant' can be juxtaposed because it is a quality descriptor. I see it as roughly equivalent to the Michelin explanation..." under no possible rendering of the English language does that equal "'destination restaurant' is limited to Michelin two and three-star places. " Period. I am very precise with my words. Please parse them accordingly.

"I disagree that "destination restaurant" is limited to Michelin two and three-star places. " No one ever said that. Period.

put it this way: Alias is a neighborhood restaurant. It also became a bit of a destination restaurant at one time. Stanton Social is most certainly not a neighborhood restaurant. though the food is adequate, it's not a destination restaurant either.

my real answer? I think "neighborhood restaurant" and "destination restaurant" are not mutually exclusive for the simple reason that they are different types of descriptors in a taxonomic sense. "Neighborhood restaurant" is a form descriptor...it deals with the intent of the owners. Restaurants in the MP are clearly not intended to be neighborhood restaurants. Places like Little Owl (and in my view, Perry Street) clearly are. "Destination restaurant" can be juxtaposed because it is a quality descriptor. I see it as roughly equivalent to the Michelin explanation of a two star (or more) restaurant: a place worth a trip just to eat at. Therefore, there is no contradiction between the two descriptors because they are in quite different categories. (think about this for a second and it should be obvious. a restaurant can be a mediocre (or worse) restaurant and still be a neighborhood restaurant. there are many such. no crappy restaurant is truly a destination restaurant for those with astute palates.)

in my experience, every restaurant (with any sort of ambition) in the city is a destination restaurant on Thursday, Friday and Saturday evenings.

"Would it be a two star in Paris?" Maybe. But there would appear to be worse French three stars than FL (and better). In NY, the clearly overrated three star was LB...JG was also a subject of debate but I think it's a lot easier to make the case for JG deserving three than for LB.

I would agree with the obvious: that "neighborhood restaurant" is not the only descriptor that can be applied to Perry Street. other accurate descriptors are: "Jean Georges restaurant", "really good" and "destination restaurant"

although this menu looks interesting enough, it certainly doesn't seem to compare with the Fat Duck in creativity. http://www.manresarestaurant.com/menu/Menu.pdf is the menu misleading in terms of how the food is actually prepared?

"zoe, savoy, prune" Zoe gets a heavily tourist crowd by virtue of its location. Prune is most certainly a destination brunch...many people truck down from the UES etc. to brunch there. You've got a point with Savoy. Though I think it was once more of a destination and has since been simply forgotten about. "frannie's and applewood , in brooklyn" Brooklyn doesn't count.

Sneakeater: that is an accurate summary of my point.

menton1: TJ says they don't. I believe them.

"A neighborhood restaurant can, in fact, be very, very good and still not attract outsiders for the express purpose of dining there." example?

actually, Bruce Willis eats there regularly, from which I surmise that he is a neighbor. "I, for one, would specifically travel to dine there. " I guess one could make the argument that if a restaurant is really really good it can, by definition, not be a neighborhood restaurant.