Nathan

I was there only a couple months ago so I'll write a bunch of recs later. For the record, the Black Rooster is decent enough and rather fun. It's also very empty...no ressies needed. (the food's too fussy for Praguers.)

true about guac. but the whole tableside prep thing is some sort of NY requirement if you want to "upscale" your Mexican. did it start with Dos Caminos? I have seen a pipian on some menus...of course, there are a bunch of different pumpkin based moles in Oaxaca.

Sorry to be pedantic...but this goes to the heart of why the selection of Mexican food in NY absolutely sucks: "mole" is simply a derivative of the Aztec word for "sauce." Mole Poblano (the chocolatey sauce familiar to NY'ers) is the most notable mole from Puebla and about the only mole available in NY. In contrast, Oaxaca has 7 royal moles and hundreds of other moles...99% of which have nothing to do with chocolate. For some reason you can get Oaxacan food in the southwest, the west coast, Chicago and even in Milwaukee, but not in the food metropolis that is NY. On the other hand, if someone opened a real Oaxacan restaurant in NY...everyone would be demanding table-side guac and wondering why none of the moles were familiar.

SneakEater: I detect all too much glee when you do this. The same I noted in Leonard Kim when responding to: "Bruni gives out far more favorable reviews than anyone else!" and Kim would state: "I entered all 16,481 reviews in the history of the NY Times into a spreadsheet and ascertained that Bruni's median grade was no different than anyone else's." What all this goes to demonstrate is that human memory is quite faulty.

Oh I agree, I'm sure she secretly thought it was at least worth a star. I also thought it was horrible of her to mention those vicious rumors that JG came back from Asia to discover that Kunz's menu was much too ambitious and and to revamp it less than a week before opening.

Amanda Hesser hated Spice Market as well.

"even though nobody ever said you'd have an experience like that at CB. What Eddie said was that being one of the top dim sum chefs in the world is on par with being a top French chef," if Joe Ng is really one of the best dim sum chefs in the world and if being top dim sum chef is on par with being a top French chef, then yes, I should expect such an experience. either that, or telling me that Joe Ng is one of the world's best dim sum chefs but that I won't get that kind of dim sum experience from CB is equivalent to telling me that the chef de cuisine at Les Halles is one of the world's greatest French chefs but he is restricted by the owners to turning out steak frites.

FG: I don't see anything in your latest post that we necessarily disagree on. Let's put dim sum aside for the moment. CB serves more than dim sum. All of the criticism of CB centers around the non-dim-sum menu. CB's "regular" menu appears to serve a fair amount (not all) of versions of Americanized Cantonese, but with better ingredients and execution and with commensurate prices. Like I said, this puts it in the company of several other restaurants in the city. Better ingredients don't necessarily make food better...it depends upon the cuisine and the item. (Pan made exactly this point on the JG thread 2 years ago.) I love Grand Sichuan...I eat takeout from one of the branches 1-2 times a week. To be honest, although some of the dishes could certainly benefit from better ingredients...others like the Xong Xing chicken wouldn't benefit at all. You'd be paying more for exactly the same taste. Now, whether the food on the "regular menu" at CB benefits from better ingredients, I don't know yet. I'm more than willing to believe that it does. But there are certainly plenty of people who have eaten there who don't think so. And if the ingredients don't make a difference, then there's no point in paying the prices. I have no opinion as to whether they do at CB until i eat there. But I have no problem in averring the proposition that better ingredients which make food taste better justify higher prices. But if they don't make the food taste better, they don't.

ok, put it this way: Ed asserted the following: 1. Joe Ng is one of the world's greatest dim sum chefs. 2. Great dim sum is equivalent to Michelin 3 star cooking. From this I will assume that Ed is asserting that Joe Ng's cooking is comparable to a Michelin 3 star. That's fair, right? So, if I eat at CB, I should expect a meal comparable to this one in quality and delight: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...dpost&p=1243830 Those are some awfully high expectations that are being raised. Is that really what you want to do? And once again (and no one has addressed this point, it's just been ignored)...it's bullcrap to assert that people won't pay money for Chinese because they see it as cheap, takeout cuisine. Shun Lee has been serving better ingredient versions of corner takeout Cantonese for many years at quite high prices and they're doing quite well. As I noted, 66, Buddakan, Mr. Chow and Philippe also follow that formula. Now, I can well believe that CB is much better than those restaurants, but those are its peers (at least for the non-dim-sum menu). So spare me the idea that people won't pay the prices.

Put differently: if Alain Ducasse is cooking in your neighborhood, and that is your experience of his cooking, you could fairly assume that haute French cooking is "greasy, heavy and bland."

"What is available to you is not representative of a whole culinary tradition." That's fair. But neither can one appeal to the greatness of dim sum in its entirety and from that claim that CB is therefore undervalued. If, as Ed asserts, Joe Ng is one of the world's greatest dim sum chefs, then it would be very reasonable for me to assume that CB is a fair representation of an entire culinary tradition. You can't have it both ways.

the more I think about it...I feel like there's some hypocrisy here. Several posters here attacked Bruni for giving 2 stars to Sriphithai because it's so informal and doesn't have a wine list.

actually, one should probably add the residential corollary to the JG rule: JG's flagship, newest restaurant and any restaurant he lives above will always be superlative.

"love it or not, it's pretty damn insulting to say that dim sum is unworthy of serious attention." I never said that. We're talking past each other. I'll just refrain from this thread in the future. "Our society and the current lifestyle that we have in New York does not permit the type of Dim Sum that was described by FG, it simply costs too much because of its labor intensity." Well, I'm concerned with what's actually available to me. Is anyone (other than Ed) claiming that CB is the equivalent of the Golden Peony?

JG and Perry Street are great. I haven't been to 66 and Spice Market we all know. You can still have a tolerable meal at Jo-Jo (and from the sound of it, Vong)...perhaps there should be a JG rule: only eat at his newest restaurant and his flagship.

That Chinese, with all its myriad forms, textures and flavors is one of the great world cuisines is not something I disagree with at all. But dim sum alone? heck no. and no, I don't care how good the world's greatest pastrami may be, it's not the same thing as a perfect steak. the comparison is silly and parochial imho. (and it would be nonsensical outside of NY.)

I have been informed that my reply was accidentally deleted. (How is this possible?) anyway, I think I said something to the effect of: It might still be the best pastrami in the world but ultimately it is still a simple, singular food item (of which there are hundreds of thousands). That does not a great restaurant make. Great dim sum is certainly more complex and more of a showcase for a chef's skill than great pastrami, but that doesn't make it the equivalent of a three-star Michelin restaurant. There is a continuum from the world's greatest pastrami to the Louis XV and the world's greatest dumplings are somewhere in between the two.

too bad Carne Vale is apparently losing its liquor license...

see the Aviation thread. if you're in Milwaukee, ask the bartenders at Elsa's where to find maraschino liquor...they're the only ones who might know.

fascinating. it sounds like I have been making my Aviations all wrong. after experiencing the cocktail at the recommendation of a sommelier friend at M&H, Blue Owl and the Bemelman's, I googled it and came up with the following ingredients: gin, apricot brandy, cherry brandy, lemon juice. so, I've been making mine with 2-3 parts Plymouth or Tanqueray, one part generic apricot brandy, one part Kirsch and one part fresh squeezed lemon juice. I wonder how the apricot brandy got into the mix? btw, the corpse reviver II is even better with a splash of absinthe instead of Pernod. I have an illicit stash that I brought back from Prague.

no, but I detest sweetness in my drinks. prefer acidity.

I don't specifically know how to get ahold of him...but start with google or the phone book. Even though he's no longer affiliated with Pure, he does, I believe have a couple organic juice bars...presumably you could ask the staff...

hmmm...where to begin: I have not eaten at CB so I'm not qualified to comment on the food. I do, however, feel qualified to comment on some of your presuppositions. "JOE NG IS ONE OF THE TOP DIM SUM CHEFS IN THE WORLD! – period, simple. As far as I’m concerned he’s up there with the top 3 star Michelin chefs." If dim sum is that important to you, than this could be a valid equation. For most of us, it's a niche product. For example, see the feathers that flew over En. "You don't understand artisanal tofu!" You're right, I don't. Neither do I think it's a valid criticism of a mainstream restaurant critic that he doesn't either. Another example: see FatGuy's dismissal of the Michelin Guide for not including Katz's...purely because of the pastrami. On that issue I sided with Michelin, I don't care if it's the best pastrami on the planet, it's still pastrami. I lived in Vancouver...had a fair amount of dim sum...and Vancouver is often considered (by dim sum aficianados), as far as I can tell, as having the best dim sum in North America. But I'll admit to not being much of a fan. "same with the beef dishes that are made from super-tasty flatiron steak but at $18 or so are deemed way too expensive and not worth it. Hey, Colicchio may get $50 for a steak at Craftsteak, " if the cost to both restaurants is the same for the same cut and quality of meat, you've got a point. "You know that when a Chinese restaurant chooses to serve, quail or squab or lobster, they still have to pay the same for it as a French or an Italian chef, only that since they’re cooking Chinese they can’t charge for it (comparably) in this environment." 66 and Buddakan say otherwise. However, you have made me anxious to try CB and I will do so.

I'll note that there are at least two "organic" vodkas on the market: Square One and UK5. I'm confused as to what would differ an "organic drink recipe" from a regular drink recipe -- that's just silly. make your screwdriver with Square One and "organic" oranges and charge $15 for it. but to the original OP: the person you should be talking to in NY is Matthew Kenney.

I'm sure you can scam some people with that. People purchase "organic" wine or shampoos after all. Some people will buy anything if they can feel good about it. Of course, having gone through distillation any putative benefits of organically grown grain are long since gone. So the idea is basically a joke. But if you want to make money this way, more power to you.