Smithy

Welcome, AmyKay!! We're happy to have you here, and it's an honor that this forum is the first place you've chosen to post! I've heard of cherimoya, but I don't know anything about it. You describe it as having a creamy texture. Can you give more information? For instance - is it sweet, sour, big, small, pulpy? What the heck is a cherimoya, anyway, and where does it grow? Finally, do post pictures if you can - and if you can't, tell us how it comes out anyway. Very few eGulleteers bite - except on food - so don't be shy about posting! Oh, and by the by - getting an SO drunk on something so he thinks it's good is a pretty good strategy, in my book.

KatieLoeb, I think you get the prize for most creative name and recipe so far..."Trailer Park Ambrosia Sorbet", indeed! Will there be a picture?

Oh, Susan - that's mighty purty! It certainly looks better than before. Congratulations!

Grub, in case you're still wondering , these blowtorch canisters are fairly small - we aren't talking about things you have to wheel around as with a full-blown welding kit. They stand maybe 15" high and are easily managed with one hand. They are easy to find in any hardware store. We have used ours for sweating copper pipes, but we mostly use ours for lighting the wood in our fireplace, unless we've actually managed to get truly dry wood for the winter. I haven't experimented with using one in the kitchen, but I'm getting excited about the prospects now that I've read this thread! The small "cook's blowtorch" is small and wimpy, and much more expensive because it's being marketed to the specialty group. In addition, I *think* it's usually designed for butane (I could be wrong about this). Butane is a wimpy fuel compared to propane. My final advice to you would be to make sure you have a fire extinguisher nearby...not because the torch is explosive (that's been well-answered already) but because it's a powerful mobile flame. Once you get used to it, you may get careless about where you're pointing it. What is MAPP, someone? Anyone?

Smithy, there is a HUGE variation in recipes for this dish. I looked around a little and what I'm planning to do looks a lot like this: Link I really loved the garnish I had at our friends' house, so I will add caramelized onion and toasted pine nuts after it is baked. As for type of fish, you want a white-fleshed sea fish. In a pinch cod filets would be a lot better than oily fish like tuna or salmon. You'll get the best results with red snapper, if you can find it. ← I did this last night for dinner, and (as usual) ran into questions when it was too late to ask. First question: The recipe in the link above calls for 1 chili pepper. Ahm, what kind? How big? How hot? I have some dried shatta from Egypt that I was afraid would overpower the dish. I ended up substituting a tablespoon of paprika (mostly hot, some sweet, mixed) to get a bit of heat without burning our taste buds. Second: how thin is the tahina supposed to be? Thin enough that you can pour it onto the fish? I had to plop mine onto the fish with a spoon, and then try to spread it. I think if it had been thinner it would have looked more artistic - although the flavor was fine. All in all this was nice. I used red snapper filets. I wasn't crazy about the flavor of the fish when it was all finished; to me it tasted maybe a little old, maybe a little overcooked. My husband loved the fish as it was. The sauce was quite good, and we had to laugh: he'd have liked a bit less lemon and more tahina; I was squeezing extra lemon on overall! This is fairly typical of our respective tastes, though. What intrigued me was that I used a lot more cilantro than the recipe calls for, and still couldn't taste it unless I tasted *for* it. Then, if was tasting for it, I could detect a subtle hint of that herb. It added a nice background flavor without shouting everything else down. Overall, we both liked this dish and I will do it again, but probably with some fish that didn't have to be frozen quite so long before eating. (Maybe a northern pike, which wouldn't have to be frozen at all.) I would like some advice on what type of pepper would be typical. Finally, next time I'll remember about the garnish. That sounds lovely.

I think the ripeness window of most varieties is so short - only 2-3 weeks in most cases - that it just isn't practical to order by variety. Nonetheless the variety is marked on the packing carton, so if I can get the produce manager to tell me what variety they have in, I suppose I can compare that to my comprehensive variety listing (if I ever find one) to work out whether I should buy enough fruit for my husband as well as myself. As a former produce manager, Aileen, do you think it's practical to be able to call the produce manager and ask that question? Do you think it would be practical in a large store to post the variety? Right now the signs list general information: tree-ripe (ha) red peaches, California, $ss/lb. How much of a headache would it be to add varietal information, do you think?

I don't believe the "manufactured" story. From what I've been told, it helps track the produce so they have a better idea of what's selling, from where, and to where it's going. I confess, however, that I can't see why the old packing cartons didn't accomplish the same thing. The phase-out of the stickers is true, at least if hearing about it from 3 independent sources can be taken as truth. (I'm not in the business, so it all may be a pack o' lies.) According to what I've heard, they're working on a laser tattoo system instead. Nobody else likes those stickers, either. I am amused that in the last few years the citrus industry has been working toward the stickers and away from the little ink stamps they've traditionally used...and here the stone fruit folks are losing the stickers. Thanks for the web sites, folks. It doesn't help us determine the fruit variety, but it'll entertain us as we compare PLU's to the list to see what else we can learn. Edited to add: I see Dave had the same tattoo information, but more so. Good job, sir.

I absolutely agree with you on this point, and I shop as you do. The problem is that my husband wants only freestone fruit, even if it's of lower quality, and he wants to know how to tell which he's getting. I haven't worked out a way to sniff, feel or touch to figure that out. Looking at the box label only helps if I have a listing of fruit varieties, complete with whether it's a freestone or cling variety, and the listing includes the variety currently in the store. So far that approach has had minimal success because (a) there are often more than one variety in any given box, since the turnover is high, and (b) I haven't found a comprehensive listing, and the varieties shown on the box are frequently not on my list. Thanks for the information so far, folks. Anyone else?

I really don't think the local sewage treatment plants would approve of this approach. The little coal bits are hard and difficult to break down, and the ash is going to affect the pH of the water treatment system. (I realize that one person doing this is unlikely to have any effect. It's the magnification of having many people do it that would be a problem.) In the end, the solids are screened out of the sewage - that is, if they didn't plug a line along the way - and put into the landfill or burned or possibly land-applied as fertilizer, depending on what your sewage works does. It's better and more energy-efficient to send the material directly to the landfill via the garbage dumpster. The general attitude of the sewage folks is that it's best to keep the non-sewage solids out of the sewage in the first place - hence, the prohibition of garbage disposals in some cities. Hm..some cities have municipal composting programs. If yours does, you could add the ash to that, since you don't compost yourself. I like the soap and pottery ideas. If you happen to have a garden with acidic soil you can use some of the ash to correct the pH, but it sounds like you've already looked at that one.

Wow...the whole-grains thing just threw me for a loop. I'm still going to suggest that one way to reduce the meat is by putting chunks of meat in with another dish. My thought was, for instance, to saute cut-up chicken breast in canola oil with the seasonings of your choice (say, basil, oregano and lemon juice for a Greek flavor) and then throw in some rice, let it turn translucent in the oil, and pitch in chicken broth with it. Simmer until rice is done, and you have a pilaf. Change the seasonings and you can switch countries with the same general combination of ingredients. It gives a filling feeling without totally depriving you of meat. Maybe if you used white rice you could get around that whole-grain prosciption. I've actually had the best luck with forced reductions in food, but only when they were associated with either going off on vacations involving strenuous exercise and a different diet altogether (think backpacking) or else getting sick and not being able to eat anything. The first won't work for you and the second is quite counterproductive. When I try the same thing at home ('no more xxxx until I've lost yy pounds') it's backfired on me the same way it has for you. Therefore, barring some forced change I'm inclined to agree that gradual reductions are better than the cold-turkey routines. That way, you can sneak up on your subconscious. What about beans? Kidney beans, chickpeas, white beans? I love the meaty texture and flavor of bean salads, and they can be jazzed up with bits of onion, herbs, preserved lemons, that sort of thing. What about fruits, dried or otherwise? Sun-dried tomatoes in oil? Those can be good ways to work some extra texture and flavor into your foods. I can't help thinking that fruits and vegetables are likely to carry nutrients that you need, as well as good flavor. You can throw those sorts of things into rice dishes, too (there I go again with the rice). A lot of nuts have the right sort of fatty acids - walnuts are good for you, for instance - and might help with that meaty requirement. I think you're spot-on about needing to look for the right nutrition for your particular health needs instead of watching the scale. I neglected to mention upthread that when my friend cut back on saturated fats and started paying attention to the omega-3 vs. omega-6 fatty acids bit, she lost some 15 or 20 pounds even though she always ate plenty. I generally lose a pound or two when I go to visit them. Their diet isn't that peculiar, and there's always plenty to eat, but it's light on animal protein, with little to no animal fats, no corn oil, and canola and/or olive oil as the cooking fats. Since we like green salads those are always around, but that isn't a requirement of the way they eat. A lot of the omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids business goes toward autoinflammatory diseases and autoimmune diseases. I think gout fits in there, and I'm sure arthritis does.

I agree with you that a lot of the "eat food that's good for you" literature is pretty uninspired. However, there are more efforts all the time to make good, well-flavored food from the "good" ingredients. While I'm generally in the "eat less, burn more, make sure the food is high-quality" camp, I've thought a lot about substitutions and removing particular foods from the diet, too. My best friend went on a diet to severely restrict saturated fat (no more than 5g sat fat/day; unlimited unsaturated fats ok) some years back for health reasons, and she's been learning more as she went, about things like omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids and their apparent connection to autoimmune diseases. She had to give up certain things that really hurt: cheese was the worst, with red meat being (to my mind) nearly as bad. She hasn't missed the red meat much, once she got used to the idea of not eating steak. However, she hasn't sacrificed flavor, nor has her family. Each year I spend about a week with them on vacation. We eat a lot of fish and chicken. Yes, she skins the chicken breasts. But she simmers them in broth with a lot of seasonings, or mixes them with rice with a lot of seasonings, or marinades them with olive oil and vinegar, or does something equally creative. There are seasonings beyond salt that do wonders for things like this. Beans of most types, foods cooked in canola or olive oil; green salads, cooked vegetables; any type of fruit; all are okay. We've made cakes where applesauce was substituted for the fats; I'm a purist about those kinds of things, and I thought the cake was wonderful. (We're talking chocolate cake, now, not something like carrot cake, which has always seemed a waste of good fat calories to me.) She is a physician, by the way, but she has frequently commented that medical training in general doesn't teach much about nutrition. I'm not surprised that you're getting lackluster information from doctors about what to do. If you're interested in more specific information, I can ask around and find out what books she read, and what books some other friends who've successfully come out of autoimmune disease issues by dietary changes, and send you some recommendations. Here's another idea: tell us what foods you think are acceptable, and throw the floor open for recipe ideas. I bet the gang here can come up with a ton of good ideas.

OK, *grumble*, I agreed to post this question to the assembled masses in the interest of domestic tranquillity. Besides, it gave me an excuse to log onto eGullet, not that I usually need one. Every year at this time of year my husband and I run into an issue of quality vs. convenience when it comes to stone fruit. I'm a purist. We had trees in our back yard, whence we received the heavenly gifts of truly ripe nectarines, peaches, and apricots, all in their proper time. When the fruit finally hits our grocery stores now, I'm sniffing, looking, weighing, and considering. If it smells like the fruit in question, I'll buy it - no questions asked. I want the good stuff. My husband, bless him, defines "good stuff" differently: to him, "good stone fruit" must be freestone. Clings are too messy. If it isn't quite ripe, never quite turns soft, or doesn't have full flavor, he doesn't care. Any approximation will do as long as it's a freestone. (He is an otherwise charming and sensible man. ) We've tried taking a listing of cling vs. freestone varieties to the grocery store and comparing the list to the labels on the display boxes. As a rule we strike out there on two counts: first, we haven't found a comprehensive listing, so Cub inevitably has some variety not listed; and second, as the stock turns over it isn't unusual to find a stack of boxes, some saying "Summer Grand" and some saying "Summer Fire", and not knowing which fruit is which in the stack. I should note that the stockboys at our grocery store don't know a cling from a freestone, much less what's in stock at the moment, and the produce manager - when we've found him - has been only marginally more helpful, in that he knew the difference but was wrong about what he had. Darling thinks that the 4-digit codes on the fruit labels tell the fruit variety. I think he's mistaken, but we've each taken notes and arrived at opposite conclusions. Somebody here probably already knows the answer. What the heck do those 4-digit codes on the fruit stickers mean? Are they variety, supplier, or something else? Is there a code telling characteristics? Is there some way we haven't found yet to tell which class of fruit we're getting? Or are we destined to continue selecting fruit according to our own guesses, and never knowing until we get home who will be eating it?

I think it's partly convenience and partly (as Tejon suggested) a general lack of cooking skills because they've been missing for a generation or two. For some of us, TV dinners, Chef Boy-ar-dee™ and Rice-a-Roni™ are examples of the "innovative" foods that came out when we were children, and that freed someone - usually our mothers - from the kitchens. Remember, in the early 1940's a lot of women went into the work force because the men were off to war. When the men came back, the women didn't necessarily want to stay home any more; they'd learned the satisfaction of working outside the home. In the 1950's and 1960's they were starting to work outside the home in grand scale. There's only so much time available, however, as a number of posters have already noted. So, what do you do? I remember my mother coming home from work, frazzled, and working to get dinner on the table. (As my sister and I got older, we helped some. I blush now that I didn't help more than I did.) Our meals were always standard middle-American square meals: meat, potatoes (or rice, if we were to have gravy), green vegetables, maybe yellow vegetables too, and fruit salad; dessert later. We didn't have enough money for things like Rice-a-Roni™ or Chef Boy-ar-dee™, although I clamored for them (advertising was potent back then too), but I remember clearly when Hamburger Helper™ hit the scene. What a revelation: it was within our budget, and all Mom had to do was mix in the burger, maybe some water, and the main dish was done! In the 1950's, '60's and '70's the food available at the local market was much more dependent on the season and location than it is now, and there was far less variety. There weren't fruits and vegetables being shipped in from the southern hemisphere during the off-season. There was far less interest in what we call ethnic foods - that is, dishes from outside your own culture, whatever that might have been - and if you were interested, you'd have had the devil's own time finding the ingredients. Packaged foods changed that by adding variety and removing the need for local or seasonally-available ingredients. The upshot of all this history lesson (I sound like such a geezer) is that many of us are the descendents of a trend toward spending less time in the kitchen because it was drudgery, with limited options. Convenience foods cut down on the time and opened up options as well, by offering "exotic" (yes, even Hamburger Helper™) dishes the home cook never would have dreamed up. I realize there were exceptions, but keep in mind that Julia Child was a revelation in the 1960's, and she only slowly began to help people realize that good food could be made at home, the ingredients were there to be had, and other cultures had something we could readily learn. This clearly doesn't address why people live now entirely on convenience foods - I'd have to go with "convenience", "laziness", "lack of imagination" and MAYBE "indifference to food"* as the most likely reasons. But there is a historical element at play here, and some of us are old enough to remember the change. Nancy "quick, where's my cane?" Smith *Given the rampant obesity in the U.S.A. I'm not so sure that indifference to food is a widespread phenomenon. But that's a topic for another thread.

Huh. It appears that while y'all were in Idaho Springs, Dillon, Keystone and points higher, I was in Frisco. Small world, isn't it? I was pretty happy with my early morning bicycle ride to Copper Mountain and back (10 - 11 miles) with my friend before breakfast, until I read about your exploits. Showoff. I'm really laughing at your comment about being a chemist but teaching physics. During my college years, a number of us noted the discrepancy between the two: either you 'got' physics, and were bound to major in physics, math or engineering; or you 'got' chemistry and were going into that field. Only a few people 'got' both physics and chemistry. I don't know what happened to them, but it probably involved a lot of money. How cool that your husband managed to use McKee for teaching chemistry! Frankly, I think I'd have gotten more out of the subject with that kind of lead-in! Then again, I was well out of college before it occurred to me that there's a connection between chemistry and cookery (and physics) - so, maybe it wouldn't have mattered. (Smithy makes a valiant attempt to return to topic) Y'all have a wonderful farmer's market! I'm looking forward to more of this blog! ...and... Have you made the sour cherry soup yet?

That could be a wonderful tag line! Since taking the braising class and learning about tagines I find myself less inclined to use our slow cooker, but that device is my husband's specialty because of its convenience and simplicity. I can do better ribs than his by browning them first and taking those extra steps he isn't willing to take, and those steps (rather than the equipment) may explain the differences in flavor and quality. Having said that, I'll also say that he makes darned good ribs and pork shoulder in our crock pot. We've never noticed everything tasting the same from one dish to the next. Now that I think of it, we almost exclusively cook pork in the crock pot. Maybe I'd sing a different tune if I tried chicken in it.

Thank you, Elie! Please make sure to let us Midwesterners know what kind of fish is best...if not species, at least general description as far as firmness, flavor and oil content so we can substitute if necessary. If I want fresh whole fish I'll pretty much have to stick to herring, whitefish or possibly lake trout. I can get any of those frozen and whole, as well as salmon. If I want to go with frozen filets the opportunities open up, and I can get tuna, cod, talapia, orange roughy or - maybe - snapper.

Yow....the mere idea of traffic *worse* than Egypt's makes me shudder. I've never been so terrified as the time we came back along the Nile highway toward Luxor after dark. Cairo is wild, but at least the gridlock generally keeps speeds too slow for serious damage if you're in another vehicle. At the risk of starting another of those pointless and interminable arguments about origin and pronunciation (please don't let's go there): Is samke harra specifically a Lebanese dish, or do variants exist across the Middle East? I'm going to have to look in my Egyptian cookbook to see if there's something like it in there.

Ooh, a samke harra cookoff thread! Sounds wonderful! I like the flavor combinations you're describing. I've never had them with fish. <looks around for a drooling emoticon>

(After massive portions of 15 other dishes:) Why won't you try the X? You don't like X? Should I fry you some eggs? Look, I can send the kids to pick up some pastries or something. Some cheese? Come on, that's not a big enough portion, to really taste X you need to at least... My husband's Ph.D. and post-doc work led to a lot of research in the Eastern Egyptian desert. I've gone to Egypt with him 7 times now, and each time I come away with more knowledge and love of the country. That exposure to Egypt and to Arabic (I'm actually taking classes now) has led to a broader interest in the Middle East in general. I'm looking forward to visiting more of the Middle Eastern countries, one day, but I always want to go back to Egypt, too. Madame Sabra (Coptic, so not Umm somebody) of the "eat, eat! you no like my cooking?" keeps promising to take me shopping and spend a day showing me how she makes her dishes, and I might actually have the language skills by our next visit. Maybe. I'd actually rather get that invitation from our Bedouin friends over in Mersa Alem, but it's harder to connect with them.

Wow. Look at those mountains! Behemoth, I'm loving this writeup. Thank you so much. The food business really makes me laugh. Our family, of generally British Isles descent, is well-known for putting too much food on the table (my grandmother was the champion) but we're pikers compared to you and yours. I've seen the same behavior in Egypt. It's daunting, because we can never figure out a graceful way to stop. We keep hearing, "Eat, eat! You no like my cooking?!" even as we groan. Am I correct in thinking that you ate WITH your relatives? Would it be the same if you were the guests of nonrelatives? One of the particularly daunting things about being fed in Egypt was that they'd lay this huge spread out in front of us and then disappear, refusing to eat with us. I suppose that's just the finest hospitality ("what's ours is yours") but we had trouble looking at the household's food budget for a week, spread out for our sole enjoyment, and them acting insulted if we didn't eat it all. Would you get that kind of treatment in Lebanon if you weren't among family? Finally - when you figure out how to make that m'tabbal and that samke harra, I hope you'll post the recipes. I'm still struggling to work out the best proportions for baba ghanoush, and I've never even heard of that fish but now I want to try it.

Wow! Well, well, well! Ever since my first attempt at mole poblano upthread we've had a couple of containers of frozen sauce in the freezer. I didn't have enough turkey the first time around, and as the days have lengthened and gotten warmer we've gotten more interested in cooking fresh ingredients than in using things from the freezer. This evening, while I was grocery shopping, I decided to change that. Turkey breasts were on sale, and looking pretty tasty, so I bought one. While I browned it in lard I thawed a quart of the mole sauce. Then I threw it all together into a casserole dish, which went into the oven at 350F for 45 minutes or so. You know, making that sauce was a lot of work, but the result tonight was divine. I think I may just do this again, after all. I know I'm glad to have another container of frozen leftovers from the first attempt. There's a 'local' sailboat race that runs from Sault Ste. Marie, ON to Duluth, MN. The Trans-Superior race course is something like 320 nautical miles (although few boats manage to stick to the course so closely), can take anywhere from 66 to 96 hours depending on your boat and the weather, and can be either a wonderful jaunt or, more likely, an exercise in masochism. Our running joke is that it only runs every other year because it takes that long for people to forget how miserable they were and be willing to do it again. Mole poblano: the Trans-Superior of the culinary world. I may just do it again.

Well, how about that - a question that hasn't been answered yet, and is in danger of sinking to the bottom of the thread like undercooked ravioli. I'm bringing this back up even though I'm not sure of the answer, so someone who REALLY knows may see it and respond. Here's what I know for sure: the pasta floats because it's less dense than the surrounding water. Here's what I think is happening: as the pasta cooks, the starches relax their little kinks and swell, but the swelling doesn't necessarily allow an equivalent amount of water to enter the space. That means the pasta expands and becomes less dense. The pockets of filling may provide extra bouyancy by swelling without taking on water, if the ravioli is well sealed, making essentially little flotation cushions. Straight pasta noodles definitely get "lighter" (less dense) as they cook - you can tell by the way they drift around in the water instead of trying to sit on the bottom. However, the geometry of relatively skinny noodles is such that they have a very high surface-to-volume ratio. The outer surface, that takes on the most water, never really protects the interior. A rounded fat piece like ravioli, or dumplings (they do the same thing as I recall) has a smaller surface to volume ratio, so they take on less water for the overall piece. That's what I think is happening. Anyone else? Edited for speling

As opposed to the smell? Or are you talking about situations where you can't sniff the fruit?

I'm going to follow up my own answer since I've learned that my "overstating the case" comment from yesterday was incorrect. I found, on a Coptic discussion forum, a thread discussing the fact that there are 250+ fasting days per year - pretty close to 2/3 of the year's worth. I haven't followed up to see what-all the fasts are for, know how long most of them last or how they're broken. Whether most Copts follow all those fast days seems to be up for debate - but clearly, we haven't learned as much from our friends there as I thought we had! I should also add that their Lenten season is 55 days long. I knew it was longer, but couldn't remember by how much.

Congratulations on the new house! May it see much joy within its walls! Our kitchen table is an oval Chromecraft (Chrome Craft? ChromeCraft?) thing with fake, or maybe it's resin-impregrated, wood laminate surfaces and brass-colored metal pedestal legs near either end. It has rounded edges that can't bruise. I would not have picked it, as I'm a bit of a purist about using wood, but I have to admit that it's nearly indestructible, it's comfortable to sit at and it looks good in a casual way. My husband strongly prefers this style, and I like it well enough that I'd be willing to get a bigger version of the same thing when we finally get a larger table to suit my entertaining preferences. (This is, after all, the place where we eat every day, dump our mail, spill coffee, and do all those other daily-living activities.) If we ever get a dining room, then a good wooden table would be in order there. Edited for clarity.