jgould

without contradicting any of the above comments, this what I got out of the article: 1. savour what you eat & eat slowly, enjoy, resting cutlery between bites 2. meals should consist of several courses, but fairly small 3. eat less, try to take longer (when able) 4. "real" food, e.g., unprocessed, not "invented" or "processed" foods. 5. do not snack 6. no fried foods, except steak frites common sense or the French way?? who knows, but if follow the simple, but difficult rules, one "should" lose weight, regardless of male or female. its almost impossible to lose weight in the US. we huge processed portions very fast, lots of fried foods, super-sized soft drinks, snack on junk all day, & feel screwed if portions are on the small size in restaurants. next time, notice how many rest their cutlery between bites. no wonder 60% of US are overweight!!!

merci beaucoup Monsieur Ptipois so there seems to be: a) the "filet" steaks: filet mignons, tournedos, châteaubriand b) the "boeuf" steaks: contre/faux-filet c) the "côte" steaks: entrecôte, & the noix d'entrecôte d) the "others": bifteck d'onglet, bifteck de hampe, bifteck de flanchet, bavette d'aloyau

really great article Katie. brings back so many 'Q' memories. i can still "taste" Sweatman's even though its been several yrs since i've been. thx again!!

i believe i can now answer my own questions:

they have their liquor license, & i believe they also have a corkage fee, although not sure; therefore, you should call ahead to check. enjoy! i went last night & had their Burgundy Festival prix fixe - excellent!

thx swissmiss for your comments & interest.

back to the topic: a) an onglet (french) aka hangar steak in the US; also known as a top skirt?? b) a skirt steak IS the diaphragm = ??? in french. c) a hampe aka skirt as in french cuts???; however hampe translates to pole; skirt translates into jupe. what is the equivalent of a skirt steak?? OR is an onglet the same as a skirt steak in France???? d) a US flank steak = a bifteck d'flanchet or la bavette??? e) as per anthony bourdain's new book, he refers to a bavette as an onglet?? f) what is the difference between a chateaubriand - vs. - chateaubriant? g) what exactly are Tournedos? if located posterior to the filet mignons cut, then what is a filet steak???

i'm somewhat surprised @ the lack of responses from egullet's NYC francophiles?? i know Gavroche is not in the Meatpacking District, nor SoHo, nor TriBeCa, nor the E. Village, but W14th is on the border of Chelsea, an excellent jumping off area if one wants - what am i missing??

1st VOTE, - then go to Restaurent Gavroche on W14th, just west of 7th ave. this is about as close as one can get to a authentic French restaurant in NYC! the chef co-owner is French, the other co-owner is French & wonderful. the employees are mostly French, & the bartender is French, the vin carte is French! Philippe Roussel has a long successful pedigree at a number of Manhattan restaurants. these 2 weeks are devoted to a Burgundy Festival where Chef Roussel has imported his father, a Commandeur in the Chevalier Tastevin, to prepare a special prix fixe bourgogne menu. i have been to the restaurant on a number of occassions & have always been treated & fed "tres bien". i am NOT associated with the restaurant in any way. only that when i find the type of restaurant i look for, i tend to become an advocate. would be interested in other opinions. bon appetit!

interestingly, i haven't seen a bone-in sirloin cut in a long time, most are the boneless top sirloin, even in very good butcher shops!! "supposedly, the best sirloin cut is the flat-bone.

Carlsbad: "In the U.S., if the short loin is cut into T-bone and porterhouse steaks, that butt end of the tenderloin becomes part of the sirloin steaks." actually that butt end of the tenderloin becomes the filet part of the t-bone ot porterhouse, not of the sirloin steaks, IF we are talking US cuts. the sirloin is anterior to the short loin; therefore, a steak cannot be both a sirloin & a top loin strip if from the short loin!! HOWEVER, there is a well-known steakhouse here in NYC that calls their NY strip a sirloin strip!!?? & i believe it is the ONLY one that does. all the others use the correct term "NY strip". why they do this, i do not know, but it is clearly a top loin strip. "The contrefilet (aka faux filet) is the upper cut of the loin, on the other side of the t-shaped bone. Together with the tenderloin, it makes up the short loin." we are both saying the same thing: short loin, part of the loin, = the tenderloin + the TOP loin. the filet mignon from narrow end of the tenderloin, tournedos from the area of the tenderloin just posterior to where the filet mignon is cut (see below); the contre/faux-filet/ny strip from the top loin "As far as I can decipher, there is no real difference between medaillons (medallions in English) and tournedos. In the American version of Paul Bocuse's French Cooking for instance, which does suffer in the translation, he says, "The medaillon is a sort of tournedos (sic). They are both broiled or sauteed and garnished the same way. All the recipes for tournedos are applicable to medallions." Perhaps I have missed some nuance in these names, however. Tournedos come from the area next to the filet mignon as the tenderloin muscle gets larger. I am not sure what French butchers call steaks cut from the butt end of the tenderloin, but perhaps they are also called tournedos." i believe you are correct re: tournedos/medaillons. could say Tournedos are medaillon-like cuts, similar to "thick" discs (?) from the area just back of where the filet mignon is cut. now assume the difference between a tournedos & a filet mignon, besides location along the tenderloin, has to do with thickness (???) "Whew! Sorry if that was too long." NON!! that was NOT too long. very detailed & much appreciated. without responding to each well-made point, it is very refreshing to have this type of detailed interchange. many thanks to both you & Ptipois.

i'm not as technically proficient as you in that i don't know how to use the "quote" in the same way you do. so i'm deleting the parts we seem to agree on & honing in on the parts that are still open to interpretation - d'accord? Oui, mais. In France, nobody ever uses bavette for stews. It's all grilling stuff. As for "bavette d'aloyau", the term does make sense and doesn't sound pleonastic to me, because bavette is part of the sirloin (aloyau) so "d'" is understood as a partitive (bavette d'aloyau being part of a larger cut). (Phew, butchery is SO subtle!) totally agree & now believe this term bavette d'aloyau makes sense to me. Larousse does specify 2 different bavettes, 1 for stews & the other for grilling. brisket (beef) = la poitrine de boeuf. I fondly remember some brisket breakfasts from New York City, long ago. actually beef brisket is more associated with Texas-style barbeque vs. the South's use of pork for barbecues. I didn't know there was anything in the US actually called "steak frites". Anyway it does make sense that the American version should be prepared with the most convenient cuts of beef, i.e. the NY strip (faux-filet-frites is quite delicious here too). I like steak-frites but I believe the best combination with frites is not steak but roast chicken (yum!). spoken like a true Frenchman. poulet rôti seems to be the meal of choice in France. CORRECTION: what i should have said was: when translating "faux" as false, instead of wrong, makes more sense. therefore, a faux filet, only in my opinion, could be construed as referring to a very specific cut, i.e., the strip part of the t-bone cut more in the shape of a filet mignon-type cut, i.e., somewhat squarish. does this make sense to you? Do not get confused with the French term "filet". It only means "tenderloin". In a T-bone, the "filet" part is the tenderloin part (i.e. the smaller one) whereas the "contrefilet" part is the same as the "faux-filet" part, i.e. the larger part,, i.e. the porterhouse. Does this sound correct to you? non, the tenderloin is a relatively large area of "The Loin" & mistakenly referred to as a "filet". a filet mignon, is a "cut" from the middle of the tenderloin, roundish & relatively small; however, quite thick, but lean (very little marbling/fat) & therefore not that tasty, thus the reason why a "filet mignon" is usually accompanied by a sauce. on the other hand, a porterhouse & T-bone cuts are characterized by a cross cut which includes both a "filet" & the strip separated by the "t-bone". the filet part is from the tenderloin, & the strip part is from the top loin. each strip can be carved out to serve the ny strip. the difference between a t-bone & the porterhouse is the porterhouse's filet is larger, & when compared with the t-bone, the strip also "seems" a little larger. by describing the "faux-filet" as the strip from the t-bone distinguishes it from the "contre-filet" strip cut from the porterhouse. although, i don't really know if this is accurate OR is this cutting too many fine hairs, & that, practically, the contre-filet = the faux-filet = the ny strip????? the string works like this: Loin = Short Loin (tenderloin aka the "filet" + the top loin aka the strip aka ny strip, etc...) + the Sirloin - vs. - the French string: Surloigne aka sirloin = filet + contre/faux-filet + romsteck + bavette. OK, I think I can visualize this. "Surlonge" sounds like a plausible origin for the word "sirloin" too. is it "surloigne" or "surlonge"? I don't know exactly what a "filet mignon" is in a beef context. In France, the term is used to describe a very small and tender cut, and is more frequently heard concerning pork tenderloin (sold whole). I think I vaguely remember that filet mignon de bœuf is another name for filet (tenderloin), but I'm not sure. If it is so, then in a T-bone you have filet (mignon) on one side and faux-filet (NY strip) on the other side. as i described above, the "filet mignon" is a specifice beef cut & is NOT another name for filet or tenderloin. it IS a roundish cut from the middle of the tenderloin - vs. - the T-bone/porterhouse cuts comprised of a FILET (not filet mignon) on 1 side of the bone & the faux/contre-filet/ny strip on the other side. thanks very much!!! i very much enjoy this interchange. Oh, so do I! But I wish I knew more about butchery. That's one fascinating subject! i think between the 2 of us we know more than most. even butchers here in NYC, don't know the difference & quite frequently i overhear them giving customers false information about different cuts!!! by the way, what the hell does "pleonastic" mean??

MERCI, again! hopefulli i am adding my comments correctly so it is easier for you to follow. also, thx very much for the chart, it is what i have been searching for, but could never find, till you kindly provided!! Maybe because "bavette" is not a term used in Canada. Please take a look at this other document, it is interesting because the French cuts of beef are clearly named and pointed at. Thus you can see there are two "bavettes", both in a zone located on the animal's side. The top bavette (plain "bavette") may be what I've heard described as "bavette d'aloyau", the bottom one is "bavette à bifteck". The muscles from this lateral zone of the animal are characterized by their long fibres, hence a similarity between the cuts. Hampe, aiguillette baronne, onglet, bavette, etc. yes there are 2 bavettes, 1 for stews, the other for grilling. from the chart i saw, it appears the top bavette is the cut for grilling, contrary to your statement above, but then again, i could be misinterpreting the "top from the bottom". 1 clarification: a bavette is the undercut of the sirloin, whereas aloyau = sirloin; therefore, i believe a "bavette d'aloyau" is saying the same thing TWICE. & clearly, a bavette is a different cut than the onglet. However bavette is bavette, hampe is hampe and onglet is onglet. None should be confused with the other. Furthermore bavette could not be the French word for onglet, both being French words. I wouldn't trust the expertise of anyone getting confused between those cuts. Anyway, a professional butcher would help you on this topic more than I could. I believe flank steak is flanchet, however I've never been able to find out what French cut was equivalent to the brisket. voila - now at least i can help u a little - brisket (beef) = la poitrine de boeuf. Steak-frites in France is a generic term. But traditionally, to deserve this name, the steak should be chosen amongst the not-too-costly cuts, the long-fibred ones, like bavette, aiguillette, the more mysterious - and quite delicious - poire or araignée (I don't know where these are cut) or, in the worst case, tranche à bifteck. Onglet has become, rather recently, quite fancy and somewhat hard to find. It used to be almost impossible to find in butcher shops because all the available onglet went to restaurants. Also, butchers used not to carry onglet, but tripiers (organ meat vendors) did, as they sold veal onglet too. Now that most tripiers have disappeared, a reliable butcher is the only place where you can hope to find onglet, even if you have to order it in advance. Anyway, at a restaurant, when you order a piece of steak with frites, most of the time the cut of beef will be mentioned: onglet-frites, entrecôte-frites, faux-filet-frites, pavé de rumsteak-frites. interesting, sounds like you live in Paris? here in US, normally steak frites is not as detailed, although many restaurants do interpret the french underneath, but usually refer to steak frites as a sirloin, which here can mean a sirloin strip = ny strip. unnecessarily confusing because here these ARE 2 different cuts; whereas in France, it seems a sirloin is a more all-encompassing term referring to the sirloin AND the top loin cuts!!! As for fajitas and skirt steak, I believe that skirt steak is a much sought-after cut in Latin America in general, for it is large and flat and may be rolled up and stuffed. That is the basis for the Argentinian matambre for instance. Also, Venezuela and, I think, Brazil have some skirt steak specialties. I don't know about this but I think faux-filet is very likely to be the larger part of the t-bone. It is a flattish, regular-shaped, very tender muscle lined with a layer of fat. The muscle on the other side of the t-bone is, I believe, tenderloin (filet). Faux-filet is considered "faux" (false) because it sort of resembles tenderloin, being very tender and tasty, but is not actually tenderloin. thanks, your explanation clears up the "faux" issue & now the term makes more sense. as well as faux-filet possibly being the filet cut from the T-bone - vs. - the contre-filet being the filet cut from the porterhouse (???) I think the ribeye is the "noix d'entrecôte. If what you call "top loin" is the front part of it, there it is. the string works like this: Loin = Short Loin (tenderloin aka the "filet" + the top loin aka the strip aka ny strip, etc...) + the Sirloin - vs. - the French string: Surloigne aka sirloin = filet + contre/faux-filet + romsteck + bavette. Yes, the faux-filet seems to be opposite the filet, and given the shape of a slice of faux-filet, it does deserve the name "strip", so that must be it. actually given your excellent explanation of a faux-filet; i would add that a faux-filet is cut (i think) similarly to a filet mignon in size, small & squarish, hence the name reference: faux/false, i.e. a "false" filet mignon (vs. your stating it is the shape of a strip). whereas, a contre-filet cut is similar to a strip, aka ny strip, rectangularish in size. using all this & the above, the faux & the contre terms now appear to make sense. however, i wonder if restaurants or chefs would agree with this??? That's why I do believe that it's the noix d'entrecôte. makes sense to me (assume noix =eye in French) Well, you know, things are even more complicated than this. If most cuts of beef are the object of a relative consensus amongst French butchers from North to South and from East to West, you have to take into account the innumerable vernacular and provincial terms describing some of them. Including some that are not mentioned on the maps and diagrams but that butchers seem to keep lovingly to themselves and their beloved clients... For instance how easily can you get a piece of poire or araignée if you're not in excellent terms with your neighborhood butcher? Not easily. You probably won't even hear of it. And if I go to a Parisian butcher and ask for a couple of galinettes (a very gelatinous part of the shin, oblong-shaped with a sinew at each end), he may not understand what I'm talking about if he's not from the region of Auvergne or Limousin. If he doesn't understand I may use the term "carotte" and that will do. But some cuts of beef bear different names in some regions and the whole thing is pretty confusing. ← thanks very much!!! i very much enjoy this interchange.

merci beaucoup!!! added site to my favorites for future reference. fyi: did not see any reference to "bavette"? Tony Bourdain in his most recent book, refers to a bavette as the french word for onglet!!?? which doesn't make any sense in that an onglet IS the french word for hangar steak!! so much for his "expertise"? the "surloigne" of a French steer encompasses the tenderloin, the contre/faux-filet, the romsteck, & the BAVETTE, aka our boneless top sirloin - vs. - a US steer's loin section (short loin=tenderloin & top loin + the sirloin), & rump section funny, in this country, a skirt (hampe) steak is the more expensive/lb, followed by the hangar (onglet), with a flank (bifteck de flanchet) steak being the least expensive of the 3 "comparable" cuts. skirt is more associated with fajitas & philly steaks, flank with london broils, & hangar with steak frites (whereas in france, steak frites is more likely to be a rump steak). i wonder if skirt is actually the cut served in restaurants serving fajitas, or is it from the cheaper flank section??? another observation: i also "used" to believe a "faux (wrong) filet" referred to a ribeye as per your above meat chart link; however, in numerous french cookbooks, a faux-filet is catagorized as the same as a "contre (against/opposite) filet", which does seem odd that 2 terms would describe the same cut - supposedly, the difference is in the shape of the cut: the faux-filet being in the shape of a filet mignon - vs. - the contre-filet which has a more rectangular shape as has its equal, the ny strip. i think the ribeye definition better re: the term "faux"-filet, but i assume they know more than i. there doesn't appear to be a comparable french cut for our ribeye, which is why the "faux-filet" term would be a good fit for being the proper french term. the closest would be a very trimmed, boneless entrecote from the middle of the rib section. in that this string is about french terms for beef/boeuf cuts, don't want to even think about touching upon the definition of a "delmonico" vs. a "club steak"!!!

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hopefully, not beating a dead "cheval", oops i mean boeuf, after rumaging through a couple of books, it appears the French via Patricia Wells, Tony Bourdain, & others make no allowance for a skirt steak in France. Wells lumps a flank & a hangar together without distinguishing between the two. as per Boudain, he refers to an onglet being the same as a bavette, but neither mention a skirt steak. as per my previous comments, & according to USA beef cuts, a flank steak is from the flank section, & a skirt (the diaphragm) & the hangar (supporting muscles to the diaphragm) are both from the plate section; therefore, these are 3 distinct cuts. in France, the hangar is the onglet, the flank is the bavette de flanchet & by deduction, the skirt "must be" la hampe(??). OR, in France a hangar steak is both an onglet AND la bavette a la the flank??? in Larousse, the french beef cuts diagram shows a hamp, flanchet, but no onglet!!!! :) 1 correction: a cote de boeuf is a large 1-ribbed rib steak; a 2-3 ribbed rib steak is a rib roast. an entrecote is a boneless rib steak or with a relatively thin 1-rib depending on the chef's definition. sorry for the error & confusion.

thanks so much for those who took the time to respond. did go back & read mr. baruch's string which was also helpful, also thanks for the link. as for what i have learned, again thanks to everyone, is the following: faux-filet same as a contre-filet, aka, our ny strip, but with the difference as to shape of the cut. onglet, aka la bavette, as per a. bourdain's new book, is a hangar steak. la hampe is a skirt steak. both the hangar & skirt from the steer's plate section. bavette de flanchet is a flank steak, from the steer's flank section. entrecote generally considered a deboned OR a 1-bone rib steak - vs - our ribeye cut which is the "eye" of the deboned & trimmed rib steak cut similar to a ny strip. cote de boeuf is a 2-3 boned rib steak either cooked like a roast beef or grilled depending on thickness. steak frites "seems" to suggest a round or rump steak, but in better restaurants could be a ny strip, ribeye, etc...

curious about French cuts of beef which is very confusing vis-à-vis US cuts. a. what is the difference between a faux-filet & a contre-filet; & what is its (their) US equivalent?? b. an onglet = our hangar steak (from a steer's plate section, also referred to as la bavette, correct or incorrect?? c. a hampe = our skirt steak? (also from the plate section)?? is this the correct French term?? d. a bavette de flanchet = our flank steak? (from the flank section) is this the correct French term? at numerous places, so many of the above terms are used interchangeably that it becomes difficult to determine exactly what cut is being referred to. e.g., an entrecote can be either a rib steak, a rib eye, or a ny strip, depending what restaurant you are in or what the chef determines his definition to be. generally i see references to either an onglet or a bavette which "seems" it could be either a skirt or a flank steak. as u know, in order of price, expensive-to-cheapest cut, the onglet is the most expensive/lb, followed by a skirt steak, with the flank the cheapest cut of the 3. it is the onglet that appears to be served most often in bistros/restaurants in the US; however, it seems that most cannot distinguish between the 3 cuts; therefore, allowing restaurants to serve a flank (bavette de flanchet?) steak when the menu states a hangar (onglet). same is somewhat true re: "steak frites" which can be an onglet, skirt, ny strip, ribeye depending on the restaurant!!

This seems very strange to me, as there are plenty of excellent French restaurants that are not staffed nor overwhelmingly frequented by French people. I mean, whatever floats your boat, of course... but I certainly wouldn't make the presence of a bunch of French-speaking people a prerequisite for my enjoyment of a bistro in New York City. JESUS, MOTHER OF GOD, ETC, ETC.... do u get off on dissecting every little piece of minutiae? why i'm responding i don't know, except for the fact i started the thread, which i thought would be interesting & ellicit comments other than the BS it has engendered. for the record, it WOULD seem strange to u, but it IS the little things that add up to make a restaurant whatever u want it to be in your eyes. that set of criteria may not be someone else's, but to nit pick someone else's adds little! its also odd (to me) that "some" do NOT pick up on the subtleness of when visiting mexican restaurants, it "seems" like there are a lot of mexicans working there speaking in their native tongue. it "seems" that when visiting chinese, japanese, ITALIAN, argentine, etc, etc, etc.... there is mostly each of those ethnic groups working there!!! is it a prerequisite - DUH, but it does ADD... i assume the nitpickers will have fun with this post, instead of the intent of the thread as stated in the initial post at the top!! as edward r. murrow said, "goodnite from paris"

had the very same time warp experience @ le veau d'or. never returned, & as a result of your comments, understand it hasn't changed a bit. but then again, why should it have since it has been doing the same since 1943. unfortunately, the stranger should be doing a little promoting instead of continuing the sacred secret, possibly a good place to take a mistress, but thats another thread. as to tout va bien, used to go all the time. food just acceptable, except for the frozen or canned vegetables. ambiance good, after pre-theatre crowd departs. bar somewhat dominated (@least when i used to go) by neighborhood regulars, which can be "interesting" depending... father owns the building + other buildings so overhead lower than most. jubilee 51 opened up in the tout va bien's sister bistro, le sans culotte, space couple of doors down. building also owned by tout's owner! so far, enjoyable. see my post under the jubilee 51 thread. hopefully helpful

[quote=JG 1) how can u judge or comment when u have never been to one of the finest french/seafood restaurants in the City? it is one of the very few that many use as a standard. what explanation would u like????? 4) thats what i said, what statement are u referring to??? its obvious u either did not read the below comment, or misinterpreted, please reread: "le jardin bistro: may be good, but travelling down to cleveland place, just to save $'s, i don't think so. if in the area, balthazar a much better choice, which wasn't on the list because it is just too crowded, & therefore very difficult to just walk-in like many of the others." [quote=SOBA I'm not offended at all, just a mite confused. (insert sarcasm emoticon here) 1. I asked for clarification regarding Le Bernardin. Perhaps someone else will deign to respond, if you won't. If you give an example without any context, then don't act surprised when someone asks for an explanation. I might check Montparnasse out if you recommend it 3. Many people on this board, such as Suzanne and I like Jarnac. You discount it as "english-owned" and "another-french themed copy". Based on this logic, all good French restaurants should be owned by and run by French people, right? God forbid that Jean Georges should open a Chinese-French place and call it "66", can't possibly be good -- the man's not even Chinese to begin with. Hope that was clear as a bell. soba JG: overlooking your "insert sarcasm emoticon here" which is quite immature & unprofessional, particularly in such a wonderful forum such as egullet. 1. re: your clarification question re: le bernardin, THAT WAS THE RESTAURANT I WAS REFERRING TO ABOVE!!! might be a good idea to reread before commenting in the future 4. refer to to bux's le jardin critique i would recommend u try montparnasse at least once to determine whether u would like or not. 3. that is certainly non-linear logic, which doesn't quite work. jarnac is a fine restaurant, my preference when going to a french bistro/restaurant is that it have FRENCH people speaking french. it adds to the ambiance & general level of enjoyment & lends itself to some authenticity. the fact that jarnac is english-owned & run does NOT make it bad, but less of a "general" ambiance. this is a very subtle point, but hopefully u will comprehend. & unfortunately, it sounds like u are not at all familar with jean george's background, if u were, then u would understand the concept of "66". & no, it was more like fog!

that pretty much says it all!

You also say: Furthermore, you also say: Smells like you've discounted it to me. Soba its not worth the arguement, i don't understand ANY of your comments - its obvious u have not been to a number of these restaurants u're commenting on. zeroing in on a very minor point, le jardin bistro is not worth a detour. while it may be a choice if one lives nearby, it would be odd, with all the choices nearby, one would CHOOSE that particular place. i assume u will take issue with that statement simply to disagree, so be it.

Well: 1. I've never been to Le Bernardin, so perhaps an explanation should be forthcoming. 2. Mmmm, I'm not sure GT and Home Restaurant qualify as temples of "haute cuisine" in the same way that ADNY and Per Se do. 3. I believe I said You discount Jarnac as not even worth going to because it is "english-owned" and "another french-themed copy". Gee, Le Cirque 2000 is owned by an Italian family. Must not be worth going to, cuz those Italians don't know a thing about haute cuisine....right? Soba ok, if u want a debate, let's go, & don't go getting all offended when challenged: 1) how can u judge or comment when u have never been to one of the finest french/seafood restaurants in the City? it is one of the very few that many use as a standard. what explanation would u like????? 2) what is your point????? 3) yes it does - reread my comments, then u may understand 4) thats what i said, what statement are u referring to??? its obvious u either did not read the below comment, or misinterpreted, please reread: "le jardin bistro: may be good, but travelling down to cleveland place, just to save $'s, i don't think so. if in the area, balthazar a much better choice, which wasn't on the list because it is just too crowded, & therefore very difficult to just walk-in like many of the others." where was le cirque 2000 mentioned? btw, isn't le cirque somewhat family-run?? doesn't le cirque qualify as an excellent example of my comments re: owner operated, hands-on, etc, etc... did u really read the comments as they referred to the topic??????????