rcianci

Dave McMillan, owner of Joe Beef and a member of this forum, could very easily take this discussion out of the realm of the hypothetical and possibly even end it, by telling his side of the story, or apologizing. As for davecap, I'll take his word until I have a reason not to. ← Dave M has not been an active eG forum participant for some time. The last time I was at JB, I spoke to Dave about this incident and there are indeed extenuating circumstances. However it would be a no win situation for him to engage in this incessant debate. You should remember that he left the multi-establishment corporate restaurant scene in order to concentrate on his own place and to report to himself. It is his business and within the laws of the land he can conduct himself as he sees fit. Is it smart to be rude or treat a potential customer with disdain? Probably not. Would he do the same thing again? I'm not sure; we'll have to ask him. Let us not forget that there is not but one set of rules for how you run a business; service or otherwise. Marco Pierre White who became the first English born chef to garner 3 Michelin stars (he remains the youngest to do so) would, on occasion, literally throw customers out the door if they pissed him off. He became revered throughout England as the Bad Boy Chef and his multi-starred establishments were extremely successful. Is that what we know as Joe Beef? Not at all. Those of us who patronise the restaurant see it as a wonderful little oasis where the service is great, the decor unpretentious, the food fabulous and the overall experience one of the very best in our city of great restaurants. ← Dave McMillan is listed as a participating member in the rolls. There is nothing to stop him, if he chooses to post. I'd love to ask him if he'd again chew out a guest who called late to cancel, but he'd have to be online for me to do that since I won't be going to his restaurant any time soon. Gruyere, you are the third person in this discussion to suggest that there are "extenuating circumstances" without actually stating those circumstances. So I guess we can assume those "circumstances" wouldn't hold up in the light of day. I am aware of Dave McMillan's story and his stated reasons for opening Joe Beef. I am aware that it is his business. I know what it is like to eat there. None of that gives him the right to be rude. Please try to get that. On this side of the Atlantic, Frank Bruni gave Gordon Ramsay only 2 stars. I guess not everyone is impressed with "bad boys."

Dave McMillan, owner of Joe Beef and a member of this forum, could very easily take this discussion out of the realm of the hypothetical and possibly even end it, by telling his side of the story, or apologizing. As for davecap, I'll take his word until I have a reason not to.

Schwartz's in Montreal. Though I've never had to wait as long as an hour, I'd gladly do so. Their smoked meat is so worth it.

If a customer is forced to wait longer than whatever the restaurant's stated alloted time that a reservation will be held until the table is given away in case of lateness or no show, then the appropriate thing to do is for the restaurant to make the delay as tolerable as possible by providing a round of drinks or appetizers at the bar without charge. I've shaken many a free drink in my day and that's the cost to the restaurant for overbooking. However, if the restaurant does allot a reasonable amount of time for guests to eat without being rushed, gets the food out of the kitchen in a timely fashion, etc. they often end up having to buy the "campers" that are screwing everything up a round of after dinner drinks to get them to unass the chairs in the dining room. So the restaurant, even when they're doing everything right, ends up giving stuff away just to appease everyone. When's the last time your appointment at the doctor, dentist or hairdresser was actually on time? If it wasn't, did they provide refreshments or a discount?? ← My hairdresser is always on time. My doctor and my dentist not so much, but then they're not in the business of pleasing the public, are they?

Doc, you might be the last of a dying breed both in not charging your less reliable clients and in being fair minded toward the restaurants. My doctor's office didn't used to charge me either, not that I'd ever no-show without at least a courtesy phone call, but apparently enough clientele abused the priviledge to make the rest of us have to suffer for their lack of courtesy and responsibility. It's an accepted practice in many industries. "Time is money" as they say, and most professionals charge for their time. Not showing up for an appointment with most doctors, lawyers, accountants or even hairdressers will cost you. It's simply accepted. I simply don't see a leap of logic to the "hospitality industry". Hotels do it all the time. The masseuse at the spa would charge you for a no-show. How is a restaurant different?? This is particularly more of a problem for a smaller restaurant. My current place of employ has 28 seats in the dining room. We don't get a lot of walk-in traffic because folks understand that we fill up quickly (at least on weekends) and have all those seats timed out like a military exercise. It isn't any less rude to cancel out at a larger restaurant than a smaller one, but it really hurts the smaller restaurant operator when folks no-call and no-show. Then we've turned down a significant percentage of the evening's business and couldn't even take those few walk-in clients because we didn't know you were planning to screw us over. Has common courtesy gone the way of the dodo?? Is it too much to expect that folks would pick up the phone just as they did when they thought they were coming and let us know we could re-book those seats? Is it too much to expect that folks wouldn't plan a full day for their toddler and then hope to drag their overtired little asses into a nice restaurant?? Seriously?? ← Yes, seriously. You and your business are simply not as important to those people as their child and whatever situation of the moment is causing them to cancel. Call them names, express your resentment, rail against the cruel world if it makes you feel better. You have no power in that situation. As has been stated before on this thread, there is no contract real or implied. Reservations are a courtesy of the business. I am starting to agree that requiring a credit card for reservations is the cleanest solution to this problem. Yelling at your customers is just self defeating. Finally, not every restaurant makes money by turnover. Other models exist. In Montreal, people dine out more frequently than in other cities. There are advantages to cultivating a large regular clientele. Also the standard of hospitality is different from most places I've been in the States and part of that standard is not rushing people out the door.

"Gee, we have more no-shows than ever. I wonder why?"

A "true emergency" being defined as being hooked to dialysis or EKG machines or being in a full body cast in a hospital bed, I presume? That's what qualifies for me. A meltdown from an overtired toddler with parents that lack presence of forethought does not qualify as an "emergency" in my book. That qualifies as a predictable end to the day's events. The very doctors, dentists, lawyers and accountants that are appalled at the thought of having their credit cards charged for no-shows think nothing of charging you should you cancel or no-show for your scheduled appointment with them with less than 24 hours notice. What I can't understand is why they can't see how it's the same thing. Just because we all have to eat to survive doesn't make tying up the restaurant's resources (the free table at which another party might sit and pay) and cancelling without notice any less an egregiously rude thing to do. Try hunkering down for a nap in your doctor's exam room and see how they feel about you then. Try throwing a tea party in the one and only dressing room at your favorite high end boutique and see if you remain their favorite client. It's no different. The folks that "camp out" at restaurant tables are guilty of this as well but at least the restaurant got paid by them once. The no-shows are just selfish and rude. It's a business, not a charity. And folks wonder why restaurants go out of business with such regularity? There is no other industry that's expected to "suck it up" and take it when shafted by their clientele. Even other members of the "hospitality" industry like hotels will take a credit card number and charge you if you dont show up, and no one bats an eyelash. Why should restaurants have to bear the economic brunt of the collective rudeness of a clueless and entitled clientele? ← Sounds like people don't cut each other any slack whatsoever where you're from. In Montreal, unless a restaurant has an explicit policy of "seatings", the rule in most high end places is that your table is your table for the night. You can sit there as long as you like without being guilty of anything other than having a good time.

I see from this link, Florida Film, Food, and Wine Celebration, that Picard is in the States promoting the book. Does anyone know his itinerary? Also I now see the book listed on Border's and Amazon's websites. However, when I click through the details page, it says the book is currently unavailable.

Hmm.. but think about it, you could recommend the place to friends you don't really like, who regularly show up late for reservations, just becuase you know there is a chance they could get a major dressing down. I like it, I like it... ← Why didn't I think of that? Where's my phone list?

Finally! It amazes me that people here think that the owner (who answered the phone) doesn't have the right to run his own damm business the way he likes. It's the reason most of us start our own business, in fact in my case, the only reason. I am sure that Dave is looking at this thread and laughing his ass off. I know I would be if I was him. "Gee, I might have been rude to the guy but look at all the free advertising I just got." No such thing as bad press. ← I'm not sure that owning a restaurant gives you the right to be rude to customers any more than being able to afford your prices gives customers the right to be rude to you. If a chef/owner was rude to me, I don't think I'd go back to his or her restaurant no matter how good the food. ← Why would a chef/owner be rude to you in particular? ← Maybe you should ask the hypothetical chef/owner for the particulars. Seriously though, I sympathize with davecap, the original poster. It's hard to follow through on plans when you have young children. According to davecap's posts, his daughter is well behaved and he's had good luck bringing her to another "casual fine dining" establishment, Au Pied de Cochon. (Which given just how loud and chaotic that place gets, is pretty remarkable.) Looks like this time though his luck ran out. I just wish there had been better presumption of good will on the part of the owner, Dave McMillan seeing as he has a young kid himself. The whole incident has left a bad taste in my mouth and I don't feel as gung-ho about recommending Joe Beef as I did before. It's been suggested that an owner can run his or her restaurant as he or she pleases, as though running a business were somehow the same as free speech. It isn't. Once one engages in commerce with the public, one is subject to all sorts of rules and regulations as well as to expectations of professional conduct. One can't do exactly as one pleases or one winds up, sued, fined, jailed, or without customers. And though no laws were broken here, the professionalism did slip. I realize that last minute cancellations are a problem, one of many problems restaurant owners face. But they are not the customer's problem. We customers have our own problems. We are dining out in your restaurant not because we want to share in your problems, but because we want to forget our own for a while.

Finally! It amazes me that people here think that the owner (who answered the phone) doesn't have the right to run his own damm business the way he likes. It's the reason most of us start our own business, in fact in my case, the only reason. I am sure that Dave is looking at this thread and laughing his ass off. I know I would be if I was him. "Gee, I might have been rude to the guy but look at all the free advertising I just got." No such thing as bad press. ← I'm not sure that owning a restaurant gives you the right to be rude to customers any more than being able to afford your prices gives customers the right to be rude to you. If a chef/owner was rude to me, I don't think I'd go back to his or her restaurant no matter how good the food.

Last I looked Joe Beef had 25 seats (not tables, seats). There are two seatings a night. There is an outdoor terrace, but last I heard it was only for private parties and it's closed this time of year anyway.

Still trying to figure out why they didn't just put those ostrich eggs on the fire and eat roasted egg instead of having to pick the sand and embers off that cow patty looking thing. No pan needed to improve on their technique. I guess that says a lot about tradition. ← Um... Because then the empty egg shell can be used as a vessel for carrying water?

Sorry Lesley, I didn't make myself clear. I only meant that Joe Beef is not a "white tablecloth" sort of place. Someone upthread used the term "intimate fine dining" and it called that picture into my head. I wanted to convey how Joe Beef differs from that image. The ambiance is quite casual. The mood is sometimes like a party. I wasn't disparaging the food at all. I had, in fact, one of the better meals of my life there last September.

For the record, Joe Beef is not a "fine dining" establishment. At its best, it's a really good party, (one presided over by a generous, ebullient host), disguised as a tiny bistro.

Yeah, OK. Good point, Lesley.

That's what I can't get over. Joe Beef is tiny. Who the hell would want a tired, cranky three year old in that dining room?

The original poster was being courteous by calling the restaurant. Canceled reservations are par for the course if one is in the restaurant business. They are not the customer's problem. The only professional response on the restaurant's part was to be courteous back. This discussion seems to be getting nowhere with both sides entrenched. I've stated my views of the situation and I will not be posting further on this topic. I have to say though that the level of professionalism, graciousness and courtesy that I've experienced eating out in Montreal has always been head and shoulders above what I've had to put up with in the States, which makes the behavior of the worker at Joe Beef and some of the comments posted on this board all the more baffling to me.

The child was three years old. The child was tired. The child's needs come first. Between the clients and the restaurant, no contract existed that would be recognized by any nation except the imagination. The restaurant worker did wrong and the owners should apologize.

That menu just screams microwave, frialator and frozen portion control.

I'm on Anise's mailing list. I just received this email: La Grande Finale Anise a cinq ans! Cinq ans de saveurs, de plaisirs et de magnifiques souvenirs en cuisine, dans la salle et avec nos convives. Anise vous fait ses adieux! Pour célébrer cet anniversaire, faire ses adieux et faire honneur à tous ceux qui l'ont supportée durant ces années, la chef Racha Bassoul vous propose la Grande Finale: Un dernier voyage sur La route des épices avec François Chartier dans le cadre du festival Montréal en lumière Les 22, 23, 24, 27, 28 février et 2 et 3 mars 2007 http://www.anise.ca/fml07.html Ah well, at least they're going out with a bang.

For this Vermonter, it's vibrant, cosmopolitan Montreal over conservative Quebec City any day of the week. As for accommodations, I’ve stayed at the St. Paul many times and enjoyed it, though I know that many people find the hotel a bit cold. Also Cube, their fine restaurant, has closed. Still, there are many other fine boutique hotels in Old Montreal: Hotel St. James Hotel Place d'Armes Hotel Gault Hotel Nelligan I think you be able to find some place that will please you. Here are the places I go for great food and wine. Fine Dining Anise (French with subtle Middle Eastern influences) Brunoise La Chronique Le Club Chasse et Peche Serious Restaurants with deceptively casual atmosphere Au Pied de Cochon Joe Beef Favorite Places for lunch Olive & Gourmando Schwartz's While there are a few “see and be seen” places in Montreal where you’ll find plenty of attitude, (Cavalli comes to mind), you’ll find none at any of the places I mentioned above. What you’ll find instead is supremely competent professional service coupled with a relaxed, friendly, welcoming attitude. It has spoiled me for restaurant service in the States.

Can you get ahold of corn syrup? If so, here's a fairly reliable marshmallow recipe.

Great photos, Daniel! You make me wish I was dining at APdC tonight. Too bad about the tomatoes in the salad, though I've sometimes wondered if Picard uses "golfball" tomatoes in certain dishes because he likes them. Case in point. When I ate there a couple of years ago, I ordered the pig's foot (the smaller one, not the one stuffed with foie gras.) It came on a bed of Picard's wonderful garlic, olive oil, and fresh cheese curd enriched mashed potatoes with two(!) of those fried gristle cakes on the side. The pigs foot (crispy skin, moist tender flavorful meat) was topped with a fine dice of "golfball" tomatoes in a light vinegarette. The texture of the tomatoes in this dressing somehow served to lift and lighten what would have otherwise been a delicious, yet leaden plate of food. If the tomatoes had been riper, more luscious, I'm not sure they would have had the same effect. On a salad, that tomato vinegarette would have been insipid and boring, but in this dish, it made total sense.

French with a Mexican Twist.. I dont know if I am ready for that. But I would be into trying those other markets.. Thanks for your suggestions.. ← The chef at Jolifou did a stage at Coyote Cafe. So his food is French with a U.S. Southwestern twist. It's not Tex-Mex by any stretch of the imagination.