Holly Moore

I can see how the Right Honorable F. Morris Chatters' tender consolation could provide comfort during hospice care, but I sense he is best suited to the Carnegie Deli segment of the hospitality industry.

I was being somewhat-to-quite facetious, but couldn't find the right emoticon. By the way, my Philadelphia-based business partner was 'shushed' for cheering too loudly at a Vancouver Canucks hockey game. He also left an impressive midden of peanut shells under his and adjacent seats but was not actually arrested. Alas eGullet lacks emoticons for the more subtle emotions. But I recognized your facetiousity. It is an effective strategy to minimize another's point which is why I attempted to defacetify your observation. -EDITED - Well done on the first thought. It's called the food service industry after all and perhaps that's what's so very attractive about the vast corpus of humanity that swells its ranks. On your second thought, legion are the stories that most restaurauteurs and chefs have about intransigent/PMessy/snobby/fornicating-in-the-coat closet/projectile vomiting/know-it-all/leglessly drunk dinner guests. But the storyteller isn't complaining, he's sharing his life and more often than not, he's laughing. I enjoy hearing those stories every bit as much as I look forward to stepping over the protaganists on my way out the door. True. And such tales and complaints are a great way to let off steam - privately, with a friend. But if a restaurateur does so in front of his staff he is validating and reinforcing such attitudes about customers with his staff. Everyone has those chalk-on-the-blackboard stimuli that turn a sinner into Billy Graham. One of mine is when hospitality is downplayed within the restaurant business. I'll end my sermon with the words of hotelier Elsworth M. Statler that I read by the door every day as I headed to class during my hotel/restaurant management student days. "Life is service. The one who progresses is the one who gives his fellow human beings a little more, a little better service."

I'm not sure "unusually polite" applies to my experience. Just not unusally obnoxious. I was fortunate in that my restaurant was an upscale cafe whose menu probably did not appeal to the shot and beer crowd. We rarely served the "loud" customer base you'd find at a sports bar. But I'd say our customer base was typical of the Philadelphia Restaurant Renaissance restaurants. I'd submit that our guests were the same as those who now patronize Philadelphia's BYO's. I'm not sure what you mean by 20 years in the front trench. If you're speaking as a food writer, you've got a few fine dining years on me. I traded in my linen napkin for a moist towelette after 13 years. But over those 13 high-on-the-hog years I did not share your experiences with neighboring diner behavior. A few perhaps, but far more the exception than the rule. I don't agree that guest obnoxiousness grows with check average. There are obnoxious guests at all levels. Perhaps they stand out more in the more sedate atmosphere of a mega-star restaurant. Perhaps, as they amassed their money, they fine-tuned their obnoxiousness in the process. It is not that the customer is always right. It is that the customer is my guest. My job is to make my guest feel comfortable. Hospitality. I stand behind what I said earlier. A skilled server can artfully turn around all but the most obnoxious customer. My positive experience with customers lies more in that I hired great servers most of whom stayed with me the entire time I had my restaurant. When a restaurateur complains about his obnoxious customers I'm willing to bet that restaurateur does not get the front-of-the-house / hospitality.

In four years of owning my restaurant I had to ask maybe 5 tables to leave. In my experience guests are rarely as you paint them, Jamie. And when they are, a skilled server almost always can easily take control of the guests and in most cases win them over as fans. I see diners as guests first and customers second. A cliche, I know. But I truly believe it. Of all the restaurants in all the world or at least all of Philadelphia, those guests chose my restaurant. I owe them a great experience. Big deal if the guests don't get the sweat and toil that happens in the kitchen. I don't want them to think about it. I just want them to have a good time, eat well, pay the check and come back often. Along with being civil, or at least trainable, that's their job and responsibility. Nothing more. And yes I want them to let their server or me know if there is a major or minor problem. If it is important enough to a guest that he raises an issue, it is important enough to me, as his host, that I try to resolve it or at least come up with a solution that neither spoils the guest's evening or embarasses my restaurant or staff. No shows are indeed the scum of the earth. But like ice machines that only break down on Saturday night they are a fact of life in the restaurant business. My rationalization - anyone who is a no-show is probably someone I didn't want in my restaurant. And on the days it mattered, the weekends, we had standbys ready to replace them. So no harm as far as I'm concerned. The no-shows lost out on a great experience and we got to serve guests who really wanted to eat in our restaurant.

David Hagedorn, the author of the first essay, according to the Post is/was a "Chef-Owner." His essay is a living case study proving that not all chefs are cut out to be restaurant owners. Hagedorn loves cooking, not the restaurant business - or at least not the front of the house portion of the restaurant business - ie Customers. He is a back of the house kind of guy. Don't really have deal with customers back there. One or two intermediaries between chef and customer. The chef can focus on the food, which is what drove him into the business in the first place. Not all chefs are cut out to be restaurant owners especially when that means interacting with customers. Could be the artist/craftsman creative personality. I'm guessing many a chef, including David Hagedorn, watched Hell's Kitchen and idolized Gordon Ramsay for his get-outta-my-face and if you don't like it get-outta-my-restaurant attitude towards guests.

I mentioned Your Place earlier in the thread, but it's perfect for your criteria. Some of the best hamburgers in the land served up in a dimly lit shack between the Market and the Cruise Ship landing. Fortunately it looks sufficiently seedy that most tourists avoid the place, but the burgers are greasy good and the staff are three very nice gals who know their way around a grill.

Wow. I had always thought that newpaper pay being what it is, burglars would not be all that interested in a columnist's comings and goings. Then again maybe the Inquirer pays better than the City Paper used to. I also figured that burglars read the Daily News; not the Inquirer. I do miss those "on vacation boxes." Every once in a while there were some very funny explanations for a columnist's absence.

Rarely With maybe one exception, every time I've mentioned something to Michael he's known about it for ages.

How come no typical editorial announcement such as "Michael Klein is taking some time off from Table Talk" or "During the summer Michael Klein has a hard time getting his act together on Mondays."

Welcome to eGullet, Ed. A few random answers. Rocky ran both the art museum steps and through the Italian market, so there is a theme to visiting both. I'm pretty sure the the Italian Market is where Rocky punched out the side of beef - I'm guessing at Esposito's though no one has claimed bragging rights to that particular scene. Things to see in the Italian Market: Fante's for a great selection of kitchen equipment and espresso makers. D'Angelo's for sausages, pates and exotic meats. Claudio's and DiBruno Brothers for Italian Deli and specialties. George's Sandwiches for a tripe sandwich. Good pork and beef too. There are two George's in the Market. You want the one on the west side of 9th Street a couple of storefronts south of Christian. Popular with tourists does not equate to tourist traps. And both Gino's and Pat's are more popular with locals than tourists. I prefer Gino's for their cheesesteaks - and yes you have to order a "whiz, with" meaning with Cheeze Whiz and fried onions - and Pat's for the history and for their South Philly attitude. I steer all visitors to Carman's Country Kitchen at 11th and Wharton for Brunch. It's a totally unique experience - both because of Carman and the combinations she comes up with for the specials. Carman's is busy on the weekend so call the day you are coming for reservations and be on time or you'll lose the reservation. Philadelphia is becoming or has become the city of BYO's. There are a bunch of good ones. Most have been discussed here. Django often gets top ratings. At Reading Terminal Market - DeNic's for a roast pork sandwich with greens and aged provolone, Fishers pretzels, Bassett's Ice Cream and breakfast at Jack McDavid's Down Home Diner. A meal at the counter of the Dutch eating place is a lot of fun and good eating, too. Edit: rlibkind and I were composing at the same time, so there is some duplication. Honest, I wasn't cribbing from his.

My guess is that they learned the hard way that mid July is not the time to open a new restaurant in Philadelphia - especially not the time if cash is tight as I suspect may be the case with Fat Daddies. Therefore they decided to take the rest of August off, perhaps to get their act more in shape, and are reopening just after Labor Day. At which time they will learn the hard way that September usually sucks as much as August and that the restaurant business in Philadelphia traditionally does not pick up until after the Jewish Holidays come late September or early October.

As good as the frozen fry may be, it will never be as good as a properly prepared fresh cut french fry. That said, fresh cut fries require a committment to quality. The blanching process has to be followed. And, most importantly, the fries need to be finished fried in small batches and pretty much to order. If this won't be possible it is probably best to go the top quality frozen fry route. If it is possible, the world, including me, will be a path to your door.

Dutton's Doghouse in Boothbay Harbor ME.

Go figure. I was thinking that might have been the case which is why I hedged in my post above. Even though I always list Rutts as one of my favorite dogs, I'm still partial to a grilled bun or a grilled and buttered bun. Probably why New England style buns are my favorite. The lend themselves to grilling.

Rutt's calls a dog that is not cooked until the casing bursts an "In Out Dog."

Good idea, laying a guilt trip on Shola. Whatever it takes to push the edge a tad more.

Yes there are small pans with rollers on them that the better goes into. These then sit on a cooler portion of the grill and, after removing the caramelized bun from the grill you pull it over the rollers for a coating of butter. Butter Spreader

Egads. I hope I'm right.

My original post was leading in that I really prefer a grilled bun and start drooling when the bun is grilled and buttered. That alone may be reason enough for you to stick with steaming. But in my old horse, old tricks way of looking at things: Steamed bun - steamed or dirty water dog. Grilled bun - grilled or fried dog. That said, I'm not sure whether or not Rutt's grills or steams their buns. It's been too long. I've got to get back by summer's end. A reputation for great fries will get you as much or more business than a reputation for great dogs. If there is any way you can squeeze it in and make it work, it should pay off huge in the long run.

Holly, IIRC, the Italian dogs are beef dogs, and they are deep fried. (John, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Tommy uses Best, or am I confusing him with Jerry's down the block?). Certainly there are some good pork and pork/beef dogs that deep fry well, but all-beef can work, too. ← Italian dogs are a breed all their own. I was thinking more of a Rutt or similar traditional Jersey fried dog which is typically a beef/pork blend like Thumann's. But based on Eric's reply here they will be frying beef dogs with natural casing.

Great start Eric. Good luck with the City Fathers. Sounds like you've done your homework. And congrats on your tenacity to get this far. Three questions. First, what is flash frying? Basic deep fat frying or a new technique? If deep fat frying have you tried it with an all beef dog? Hot Dog John is the expert on such matters, but my understanding is that most places use a pork dog because it fries up better. Question two, the hot dog bun. Will you be grilling it or toasting the bun? Will you be going the extra step and buttering it too. Many a poorly attended to bun have ruined perfectly cooked hot dogs. Final question, the french fries. Will they be fresh cut? Hopefully yes. If so will they be: 1) twice fried ala the original McDonald's dog, 2) thicker cut than shoe string - 1/4" or 3/8" and 3) cooked to order. Answer yes all along here and you've picked up at least one guarenteed fan. Here's wishing you great success. Do keep us posted.

Jack McDavid of Food Channel's Grillin' and Chillin' and of Jack's Firehouse and the Down Home Diner in Philadelphia did bear steak with Coca Cola Sauce for the James Beard House a few years ago. The recipe originated when Jack was cooking at Le Bec-Fin. One of the Sous Chefs kidded him, "All you Americans know is ketchup and Coca-Cola." Jack picked up the gauntlet and delivered a highly respectable Coca-Cola sauce.

I finally remembered to make it to the STH for one of my typical 4:30 lunches. Didn't remember the address though and was searching Race Street. No luck so I phoned eGullet PA Board Tech Support. Katie even knew the exact street number, which is good because it's not easy to find by name. At Katie's insistance I started with the spicy dumplings. First dumpling and I knew these were the best dumplings I recall ever biting into. Probably more the sauce than the dumpling itself. To etch the moment forever into my subconscious, I happened to look up and out the window after that first bite. What to my wonderous eyes should appear but one of those open air tourist trolley's arolling up Arch Street - its rear half jam packed with a bevy of nuns dressed in their traditional, pure-as-snow whites from ankle to top of head. A moment of splendor. I had tried to order the dumplings and tell the waitress to come back in a few minutes for the rest of my order. She nodded and stood there waiting. I tried again. Another smiling nod, and she still stood over me, pen poised and pad ready. Unable to handle the pressure I ordered the first dish that struck my eye, shrimp with garlic sauce. Quite good, and plenty of perfectly cooked large shrimp. I'll be more adventurous next time. Great place. I just need to make one thing perfectly clear. It was eGullet and not the Philly Weekly that got me there.

B. Natty it is if you ever get your Zydeco rap group going.

Get thee quickly to a Wendy's and buy a bowl of chili. Absent a jail sentence you might raise enough money to outfit your entire kitchen.