Holly Moore

I'm amazed the manager on duty at the Four Seasons did not handle the matter better. Were you complaining about the undercooked frozen fries or the visit by the security guard? Either should cost them a star/diamond.

For Four Seasons room service, that's a reasonable price - $6 for the steak and $11 for the trek to your room. And cheaper that a round trip cab fare to Geno's or Pat's. Considering your admitted condition, congrats on the sharpness of the image. The fries - they look frozen, which would be disappointing for the Four Seasons?

My understanding is that in a Maine Lobster Roll the lobster meat is cool and usually served with mayonnaise (Red's melted butter option is an exception) and that in a CT Lobster Roll the meat is warm and served with melted butter. As in clam chowders, they are considered two distinctly different approaches to lobster rolls. And if those guys in Groton can't take a joke ..... BTW Jason, I edited my post above. Steve's, my favorite Philadelphia Cheesesteak place does offer sweet peppers for $.75 extra.

Mayonnaise is fine for a lobster roll. Most places in Maine use mayonnaise, not butter. I think it's cute that CT has it's version of a lobster roll too. Actually CT's "lobster roll" is quite tasty. But as I was raised on Maine lobster rolls, I consider any other variation to be a pretender. Part of what makes a great lobster roll to me is the play between the coolness of the lobster meat and the heat of the bun and the crunch of the buttered toasted sides of a New England style hot dog bun, the softness of the inside of the bun and the sweet chewiness of the lobster meat.

Steve's Steaks gets five grease stains and I rate it the best cheesesteak in Philadelphia.

Celery is right tasty for a lobster salad but, to a Downeastener, adding celery to a lobster roll is akin to watering down the booze. I was also going to ask who gets the lobster roll, Rachel or Jason, as it takes over a pound of lobster meat to make the above lobster roll from Red's in Wiscasset ME.

OK, now you're starting to get on my nerves. Lobster salad for a lobster roll??????? Never, except at Maine McD's!!! A little mayonnaise or a little melted butter perhaps. But nothing more.

Untoasted.

Sounds like a good bread source, but a hoagie roll and a cheesesteak roll are different. More heft to a hoagie roll. You'll have to watch your meat to bread ratio. Perhaps some scooping of the bread or removal of the horizontal center third of the loaf. I don't recall ever seeing a grillman salt or pepper the meat. Definitely not before. Typically those options are left to the customer. Cheesesteaks and lousy french fries are the only places where I'll use ketchup. But I've only lived in Philadelphia for twenty-nine years. I think a lot of born and bred's skip all the condiments. Banana peppers strike me more as Chicago hot dog thing. I've never looked closely at the hot peppers at Pat's or Geno's, but I think they are more sliced hot italian peppers than banana peppers. No other condiments come to mind. You better start cooking fast. I think the Mummers Parade goes on national TV at 3 PM with the String Bands and that's the time to be chomping a cheesesteak.

All sorts of issues here starting with the thread title as it was originally posted. "Authentic" and "Philly" are superfluous. And cheesesteak is not two words. The original cheesesteak was built with provolone. But that is only because back then chemistry and plastics had not evolved to the point that Kraft had the technology available to conjure up CheezeWhiz. It was one of those eureka moments when a grill cook first nestled a cheesesteak with cheeze. Synergy in its purest form. A good sandwich became a great sandwich. Nowadays one doesn't even order a cheesesteak. "Whiz with" says it all. The bread indeed does make the cheesesteak. And Amaroso bakes that bread. In north Jersey, maybe a torpedo roll. Or a trip down the turnpike. Thin sliced ribeye is the way to go. And a Korean supermarket is a good place to buy it. We're not talking prime dry-aged ribeye for a cheesesteak. Think Elsie. Cooking is difficult. Yes, the steak is cooked on a grill. But it is cooked in vast quantities, so the meat is more steamed in its own juices than it is grilled like a steak or a burger. Maybe covering it with a pot lid as it cooks will hold in some of those juices. Peppers on a cheesesteak. Avant Garde. It is not done hereabouts. One can order a cheesesteak with sauce - a pizza steak. In my opinion the sauce detracts from the delicate balance of the blend of greases from the steak, the onions and the whiz. Mushrooms is another option but is considered touristry. Cheesesteak hoagies, with lettuce and tomato, are an acceptable variation if one won't be getting roughage elsewhere that day. As to that is the kind of Philly Cheese Steak found at Los Angeles' Farmer's Market.Edit: Semi-Correction - Just looked at the menu of my favorite cheesesteak place, Steve's King of Steaks. They do indeed offer sweet peppers as an option.

Today's NY Times article mentioned a few other long gone institutions including Don Roth's Blackhawk, home of the spinning salad bowl, where I hung out in the late '60's, my McDonald's years when they were headquartered at LaSalle and Wacker. It was over a scotch and soda at the Blackhawk's bar that I watched man first walk on the moon. But I digress. As soon as I saw the article I knew that sometime before February 28th I'll make it to Chicago for a final meal or two at Befghoff's.

Sounds great, John. Please add it to Recipe Gullet if you want to. For those who don't have a deep fryer, I think it would cook up just as well in a cast iron skillet with two or three inches of oil. My initiation to the Italian Hot Dog and the Italian Sausage was at a long gone place called Pizza Mia, on Route 46 approaching Denville NJ. He baked his own pizza bread and it was a special treat when the bread was still warm from the pizza oven. In the center of the counter was a grill with plexiglass on three sides to protect the customers and a lip all away around. The peppers, onions and potatoes were semi-cooked and sitting on one side. The hot dogs and sausages, on the other. When a hot dog or sausage was ordered, everything was pulled into the hot oil in the center and finished off. Once done it, along with a healthy dose of the cooking oil, everything got heaped into the slice of pizza bread. Pizza Mia also did a roast beef sub (I think it was called a sub) on a whole round of pizza bread, sliced in half. It could have gone up against any Philadelphia hoagie.

Re dress suggestions - I try to wear a mustard colored shirt - anyone who has shared a table with me understands why I choose clothes to match the meal colors. There are only a few seats - catch as catch can. I've always been able to grab a seat. They turn over quickly.

There's a communal table that seats about 8 and a counter with stools running along the wall and across the window. There have always been a few kids with parents. Other than that - other people who eat hot dogs.

I used to feel that way. But now think it's only essential for reviews and then only before you've eaten there. The depth of information you can get from face to face conversation usually makes for a much more interesting write-up. If I'm interested in the place, really like it, or have questions, I'll wait until after I've eaten and paid and then introduce myself. Doesn't always work since I'm taking a lot of pictures and owners and employees get justifiably curious. Introducing myself often gets me on the other side of the counter/in the kitchen which makes for some neat pics and better information on the process. As to the Italian Dog - just like North Jersey, the peppers, onions and potatoes usually overwhelm a single dog. In North Jersey I always order a double dog or, even more to my taste, a double sausage. I didn't think about it at Casino Tony Goes. Actually when served on a long roll, as both places do, I'm thinking the Sabrett's dog from Coney Joe's and the toppings and grease from Casino Tony Goes. So has anyone tried Coney Joe's loose meat burger yet?

I don't remember other than they were not oozing booze. Soaking can't hurt.

Maybe five or six years ago I bought my staff fruit cakes from the Chef's Market on South Street. Nobody quit or filed a labor grievance or anything, so I guess they went over ok. Actually they were excellent. Don't know if they're still doing them or if the quality is the same now.

With words like wonk or geek - I'd look at who is saying them. In the case of the Philadelphia Weekly - I suggest that Kirsten and Lauren see themselves as the high school varsity jocks (real journalists paid real money) and they look down upon eGullet posters the same way jocks view those picked last when choosing sides. They say wonk/geek out of anything but respect - Sort of a verbal wedgie to the non-print media eGullet poster. That said, I don't believe that Kirsten, at least, was intentionally disparaging. But her words belie her attitude about the eGullet Forums vis a vis a newspaper - even though, pardon my emoticon to come - the price of the Philadelphia Weekly and theGullet Forums in terms of cash outlay is exactly the same.

I am of a certain age that I will always think of the Philadelphia Weekly as the Welcomat (when the Welcomat decided to go head to head agains the City Paper ten or fifteen years ago, they changed the name to Philadelphia Weekly). I miss aspects of the Welcomat, especially the gigantic letters section. It was the Welcomat and editor Dan Rottenberg in particular that first encouraged my writing - and it started off in their Letters section. Even the New York Times has gotten our site address wrong, eGullet.Com instead of eGullet.org. So I can't come down on the Philadelphia Weekly all that hard for that. But "...the wonky, emoticon-happy food geeks who surf the site..." is another matter. I don't take that as teasing. Not at all. That's a holier than though attitude that, as I said before, doesn't get what eGullet is all about and doesn't understand eGullet's influence nationally and internationally. Put much of the writing found on our forums against the Philadelphia Weekly food coverage - and we'd kick ass in terms of style, content and timeliness.

One of my peeves. It is a sterotypical cliche, popular with the print media, that intentionally or unintentionally minimalizes eGullet's content and our members' knowledge and experience. Kinda like when wagon builders made fun of the automobile. Not thin-skinned as much as proud of what eGullet and our members are accomplishing in food related news and discussion.

Yeah, that's us, I guess. (thus confirming stereotype) ← A while back either Lauren McCutcheon or her editor at the Philadelphia Weekly, referring to eGullet member posts on McCutcheon's totally biased slam of the revamped Old Original Bookbinders, used very similar short-sighted, snide terms in referring to eGullet members. Back then I commented that they didn't get eGullet. Looks like they never will, which, while sad, is what I expect from the Philadelphia Weekly.

Casino Al Goes' version of the Italian Hot Dog Coney Island Joe's For comparison - a North Jersey Italian Hot Dog from Tommy's Italian Sausage in Elizabeth NJ and, on the right, Jimmy Buff's version.

I hit both places today. Both serve good dogs. Neither serves what I consider to be the North Jersey Italian Hot Dog of my youth. As has been pointed out above, the North Jersey version is fried in oil, topped with veggies fried in oil, and is served pita style in round bread baked in a pizza oven. What I missed about both Casiono Tony Goes and Coney Joe's was the grease factor. In a classic North Jersey version of the Italian Hot Dog, everything oozes together. That is a good thing. Surprisingly, I didn't miss the pocket bread way of serving the dogs. My frustration with North Jersey Italian Dogs is that it is very difficult to get all the ingredients in one bite. One needs to eat through the thick layer of potatoes to get to the rest or the sandwich. With the South Jersey version, the potatoes, onions and peppers are a topping, like lettuce and tomato on a burger. As such one can bite into the dog and get some of everything. Would that there was more grease binding everything together. Grease wise Casino Tony Goes wins out. Also I preferred their peppers, onions and potatoes. My complaint, the dog got lost on the bun. I didn't realize it until I got home and looked at the menu - I could have ordered a double dog, just like the North Jersey version. They win heritage-wise too. I met the daugher and granddaughter of the founder. The place has been there since 1935. Heritage and tradition always makes a hot dog taste better to me. The folks at Coney Joe's said their Italian Dog is still a work in progress. They use a jumbo Sabrett's frank. My main problem was the grease factor. Coney Joe's crew looked at me strangely when I complained my dog wasn't greasy enough. Fortunately I am used to such looks. Also their peppers and onions lack the soul of those at Casino Tony goes. Pseudo Italian, sorta. John, I din't think that Casino Tony Goes version is a rip off of the North Jersey version. Rather great minds working in the same direction. Founder Canio (Tony) Sbarro was born in Italy. He didn't care much for the basic New York dog. So when he opened his place he added the sauteed potatoes, onions and peppers. I'm buying into their claim that both are originals - that there are two distinct Italian Dogs - North Jersey and South Jersey. As to the name "Casino Tony Goes." Tony was always heading out to pick up supplies - especially fresh produce. People would stop him to tak. Tony, in a rush to get back to his restaurant always told them in broken English, "Gotta go, gotta go." That's the stuff of nicknames. Tony's became "Tony Goes." I'll post pics as soon as I fine the cord that connects my camera to the PC. For the GPS enabled, addresses of both places. Both are closed on Sunday. Casino Tony Goes: 15 Anderson Street, Trenton NJ. Coney Joe's: 1 E. Trenton Avenue, Morrisville PA

Johnnie's Dog House in Wayne comes close. The bun has nary a poppyseed, but the relish is neon green.

When I lived in Wisconsins natives told me that it is a state law that apple pie has to be served with Wisconsin cheese. But they also promised me that the winters in central Wisconsin wouldn't be all that bad, so their credibility is less than 100%