Holly Moore

Greetings Porthos, No disrepect taken. As you point out, the purpose of the eGullet Forums is to read, chew and discuss. "Disagree" is in there somewhere. Many restaurant reviews do not blatently tell readers to patronize or avoid a restaurant. More often than not it is implied - an experience is related and the reader is left to form his/her own decision.

Not sure if it is from the Godfather or Goodfellas, or something else, but, "I keep trying to get out of this and youse keep dragging me back in." Between opening my own forty some seat restaurant in the early 80's, working with franchisees for ten years before that, teaching a couple of years at the Restaurant School and writing a newspaper column on food and restaurants, I have experienced a lot of people opening their first restaurants. Other than the franchisees, the restaurants have usually been small, under financed, and a life's dream come true. My image is not idealistic. It is representative of many if not most who open their first small restaurant. But yes, I am emotionally invested in seeing any small, independent, first time restaurant succeed. There is business and there is business. It is not all the same. Most people who open their first small restaurant, or any small business, do so with an entrepreneurial passion and drive that deserves more than a simplistic "business is business" mentality. Anyone who has the balls to put it on the line and follow their dream should be given the benefit of the doubt, especially for the first two or three months. We all know that the odds don't favor any such restaurant's long term success. Give them some time to get on their feet. I am not all that concerned if a corporate restaurant like Oceanaire or even one of Starr's places gets kicked around. They have the staying power that most small, new businesses lack. I won't smirk, except perhaps in the case of a Olive Garden or Red Lobster, but you're right, I am not going to have the same feelings I have for a small, first time restaurant. Bigboss - I have graded essays written by chefs training students, I assure you that, for a "cook," you are way above average, articulation-wise. I have not meant to give the impression that I think you are unfair by nature - just that I believe a specific post to be unfair.

A few responses to some recent posts. 1. For reasons stated earlier, I did react more intensely because the poster is a restaurant professional - though I do not know his name nor if we have ever met. But I would react strongly to such a post, no matter the writer's background. 2. The eGullet Forums are media. They likely have more impact than many other forms of food and restaurant focused media. eGullet and similar discussion forums are unique in that their content is not generated by editorially supervised writers. As a result guidelines, other than those in a forum's membership agreement, have not been developed or adopted. Not sure they ever can be. Which calls for self responsibility - a self-imposed sense of fairness. To paraphrase Cornell University's motto, "with freedom comes responsibility." 3. The velocity and immediacy of the internet does not take away one's duty to be fair and responsible. Such obligation should not change just because it takes minutes not days to publish. 4. If it looks like a review and talks like a review, it is a review. Doesn't matter if it is written by a professional reviewer or an eGullet poster. A lengthly bite-by-bite recap of a meal that is summed up as "the most underwhelming meal I’ve had in this city in ten years," is a review. 5. The right to rant: I like V's equivalent of counting to 10 - waiting a couple of days before pounding the keyboard. Beyond that, consider the impact of the rant on the subject of the rant. 6. As V. has pointed out the chef/owner of James has respectable credentials and proven skills. That being the case, the meal bigboss endured was either an abnormality or typical of a very new kitchen. If the former, it could have been because the chef was cooking for friends who were also restaurant kitchen professionals. Again, going back to my reviewing days, some unexpectedly poor meals came from very good restaurants who recognized me and tried too hard because they were cooking for a reviewer.

Not the restaurant industry. Again, I am speaking specifically about a public restaurant review, whomever writes it. Beyond that I still maintain there had to be a lot of misunderstanding / miscommunication / opposing expectations concerning the words "cook for you." I totally agree that $90 is a lot to pay for a disappointing meal. There is no margin for error at that price point. But the constructive and positive way to communicate this to a just-open restaurant is one-to-one feedback.

I am inclined to agree with you on that Holly but that is exactly what Frank Bruni's first look/Blog in the New York Times does quite often under the guise of "initial impressions". Edited to add: Specifically regarding GILT 50th/Madison for example. ← Edit: * Except, of course, for Frank Bruni of the New York Times.

Question: Why did James deserve better, to borrow your melodramatic phrasing? I'm not seeing how they deserve anything simply by virtue of being a new restaurant. It sounds like they served an overpriced mediocre-at-best meal to industry professionals, and friends at that. Now this apparently unfortunate experience is being discussed on an internet forum. Big deal. I doubt too many people will seriously be dissuaded from going to this restaurant simply because of this thread (as was stated by another poster). In short, James will not fail as a restaurant because someone went on a rant on the internet. Rather, the demise of the restaurant will occur if they continue to serve sub-par food at inflated prices. So, assuming those who run James are intent on it being a fine dining restaurant, this thread should in the long run have a positive effect. That is, they should be checking out these sorts of forums, taking in negative feedback, and improving their restaurant by ensuring that something like what was described at the start of this thread never happens again. ← Greetings Noob, and welcome to eGullet. I think I have explained why I believe any new restaurant deserves a break for the first few weeks. But let me take James and bigboss out of the equation and try another approach from the point of view of someone who reviewed restaurants for a few years. It is an unwritten rule for most restaurant reviewers that they will not lambaste a restaurant during its first few weeks of operation. A couple of reasons. First it is unfair to the restaurant just getting started. Second, it can be unfair to the reader - the review may or may not represent the experience the reader would receive a month or so down the road. A post on a respected and broadly read web site such as the eGullet forums can have significant impact on a restaurant. However, as long as a member posts within the scope of the Membership Agreement they can offer opinions about a restaurant without observing the traditional guidelines of newspaper restaurant reviewing and without any editorial influence. This can create great content. And there is a balance because others have equal access and can offer opposing points of view. That balance possibly makes the eGullet Forums fairer to a restaurant than other forms of media. The drawback is that established conventions of restaurant reviewing fall by the wayside. Sometimes that is trivial. Other times it can impact the success of a new restaurant. If positive, cool. If negative, it is a serious responsibility. As this thread evidences, people may reconsider their decision to try a new restaurant. Word of mouth is generated. Most Philadelphia food writers and restaurant reviewers read eGullet and may be at least a bit influenced. A post like the one that initiated this thread will not put a new restaurant out of business. And yes, a smart restaurateur will react to customer concerns and learn. But such a post makes it tough for a new restaurant - scares away some badly needed customers, distracts and possibly demoralizes the restaurant staff when they should be concentrating on understanding and perfecting their new business. Most newspapers of note, out of fairness, would not publish such a review about a restaurant that has been open for less than a month. There is a responsibility to be fair that comes with writing about a restaurant whether that writer is a paid restaurant reviewer or a poster to a web site such as the eGullet Forums. And publicly blasting a new restaurant in its first month is simply not fair.

We aren't going to agree on this one. Had James been open longer I would have no issues at all with the post. But we're talking about a small husband/wife restaurant, just opening their first proprietorship, perhaps a life's savings invested. James or any similar restaurant deserves to be cut a break at the start. They have enough hurdles the first few weeks without some major bad publicity. When someone has serious kitchen experience I guess I'm expecting more empathy for and support of a new restaurant, even one that disappoints. That community thing I was talking about before. Question - did your friends or you mention those problems to the hostess or the chef that evening? It sounds like the dining experience was sufficiently spoiled that some honest confrontation would have benefited both sides. Of course you have no obligation to do so, especially since you were paying guests and not comps. But some on-the-spot candor would have been doing them a favor. I may have been overly dramatic in "they deserve better." I admit I'm hypersensitive about giving new restaurants the benefit of the doubt. It is one of those few buttons that, when pushed, gets me going. Probably because I have been through opening my own restaurant and because I have seen a lot of others go through it and many not making it. Sidebar: It's my experience that the odds of getting a poor meal and poor service are greater in a slow, uncrowded restaurant than one that is buzzing along. Not logical, but all too often the case.

I'm in, though not all that good at sharing. Could a restaurant paying top price get a comprable porterhouse from Wells? In the 90's I unsuccessfully pressured Jack McDavid to take the small retail space next to the Firehouse and open it up as a farmers market. He was getting outstanding lamb, produce and even beef from local farms the like of which I don't see available retail in Philadelphia.

Having spent a portion my formative years in a few kitchens, my sensibilities aren't all that delicate. Good for Chef Lacroix for chewing you out in private in his office rather than yelling at you across the kitchen or in the dining room.

Depending on US AIR's promptness from Phialdelphia to SFO, I will have between two and six hours layover before a midnight flight to Hong Kong. Any recommends for either an in-airport or an easy BART-ride light dinner?

It is not an issue of "censorship." Rather, it is a matter of fairness and timing. Best as I can tell James was open between two and three weeks when this thread was posted. That is too soon to publicly blast a small, new, independent restaurant. Restaurant reviewers mostly understand that and I would hope that the same goes for restaurant professionals. A phone call or an email to James or to any new restaurant would have been both far more helpful and far less damaging. Both as a restaurateur back when quiches we considered nouvelle and as an observer of the craft since, I have always appreciated the support of restaurants within the community. When I opened my place I was amazed by the support and help from my nearest competitors and from the entire Philadelphia restaurant community. I did my best to pass it on once we were no longer the new kid on the block. I expect the same of today's restaurant community. James deserved better. Especially from a restaurant professional.

I'd say it was more a misunderstanding than a practical joke. I doubt if there was any malice or trickery intended on James' part. What was interpreted as "we'd like to cook for you" was likely intended, perhaps ineptly, as "you have to try our tasting menu - we'll thow in some surprises." The new restaurant owners might have thought, "Isn't this nice, friends coming to support our new venture." Sounds more like miscommunication than anything else. BigBoss's write-up is a rather harsh review for a very new restaurant. Most professional reviewers give a place some time to get all the kinks worked out. Most chefs will complain that it is unfair for a review to be aired so soon after a restaurant's opening. I know what "they" say - once a restaurant starts collecting money for their meals, they are fair game. But still, I would hope for some empathy and understanding for a very new restaurant. And, not to take anything away from the credibility of BigBoss's observations, I hope others will look for themselves. Anyone who has put their dreams and soul into opening their own restaurant deserves, at least for the first few weeks, some tolerance and, perhaps, private rather than public feedback.

Sounds like just the dish for Barclay Prime to offer as an alternative to their ultra costly cheesesteak.

Any reputable mainstream media outlet does not permit its critics to accept comps. ← We've covered this ground so many times, it's surprising to me that you'd persist in making such an absolute statement. The New York Times, for example, allows most of its critics to accept comps: the theater critic, opera critic, etc., all get their admissions comped, as do the sports writers. Pretty much the only critics at the New York Times who aren't routinely comped are the food critics and travel writers(though other writers for the dining section and the paper in general are routinely comped meals, as is evident from attending various press previews where you can usually spot one or two Times writers along with many other "reputable" journalists mixed in among the disreputable riffraff). In addition, it's primarily the small subset of newspaper restaurant reviewers who operate under a no-comps policy. In the larger world of "reputable" food journalism, writers take comps all the time. You can be sure that most every restaurant-related article in the mainstream, reputable glossy food magazines, for example, is the result of numerous comps. The point being, no-comps policies are the exception not the norm. Moreover, it's rarely disclosed in mainstream media. Bloggers who accept comps and disclose those comps are actually adhering to a higher standard than most of the reputable mainstream outlets. ← Not sure who is surprising you with thier persistance - but in the quotation cited I am speaking to perception, not practice. To the point of perception, one wonders why glossy food publications do not aknowledge that "most of their restaurant related articles are the results of numerous comps." If a writer was foolish enough to add, "Thanks to all the restuarants mentioned in my article for the free meals and for chipping in on my hotel and air costs," what are the odds such a sentence would be edited out?

Anyone know if Suagy Dogs are still available in Providence at either Shaw's or Stop and Shop?

It depends on the intent of the blog. Some blogs are written as a lark - fun for the writer and not looking to be taken all that seriously. Others are written to be newsworthy, to impact the reader's perception. In the case of the former, there is no problem with comps. However, when a blog writer aspires to reviewer status, comps are as much of an issue for the blog as for a more established form of media. Stating one has been comped does not make the comp acceptable. It is akin to a politician saying that superbox tickets for a Raven's game doesn't influence his opinion. A comp may not blatantly influence a senator's or a writer's experience, but it can make a writer, perhaps even subconsciously, prone to give the restaurant the benefit of the doubt and uneasy to write anything harshly negative. All reviews should be taken with a few grains of salt. Comped reviews merit a couple of tablespoonfuls.

Might be fun to see what the students at the Pastry Shop at the Restaurant School come up with.

How about inviting local chef's and butchers to mix up and serve their blends of scrapple? It would also be interesting to compare scrapple to liver mush, goetta and any other variations out there.

Comps either bias a writer or give the perception of bias.

Them were the days. In current times, said hamburger can arrive on all manner of bakery product, most of which are more stylish and less functional (as in staying together) than the perfect hamburger compliment, the "soft bun." I'm rooting for Louis Lunch in New Haven - both for the oldest and one of the best.

Butter. Just butter.

There are times I favor a rowdy cocktail sauce. Felix's in New Orleans, at least as it was in the '70's, two dozen of their finest, shucked to order and chased down by mugs of ice cold draft beer.

Maybe your older brother who introduced you to the wonderful world of grease.

This is the same production company that liquors up the participants of Project Runway for the reunion show prior to their finals. No surprise the booze showed up just after the last California competition.

So today, in Nashville, a woman asked me, "Aren't you the guy on the Food Network, that dectective who looks for restaurants?" I've been kidding before about Chris and I looking so much alike, but we are at the point now where we need to settle which one of us is the evil twin.