Philadelphia Tasters' Club

[wkl]

pomme lambic anyone????

[Vadouvan]

pomme lambic anyone????

The new Pomme Vert Lambic is like the Appletini of beers......

Sorbet is way too cold, even if it was just ice, the cold kills your taste perception.

Room temp seltzer water it is.

[MarketStEl]

Well, it looks like this is shaping up nicely....

will we be informed about time, place and requirements to participate?

[dagordon]

Rosengarten mentions the method of pouring some oil directly into your cupped palm, taught to him by Marcella Hazan, but then says that wine glasses will probably be more practical... also mentions chunks of bread (and water) as palate cleansers.

btw, rosengarten's latest shipment of oils for his "fresh pressed olive oil club" are freaking outstanding (imho -- i'm no expert). really rich, much more so than previous shipments. and they have pressing dates on the bottles of this past november, as in two months ago.

info about this latest batch of oils is here.

might be fun to see if you can convince them to contribute some bottles, 703.394.4931 is the phone number

[hathor]

Here are some of my notes from olive oil tasting classes at Ital.cook.

Vadouvan: you are 100% right...apples and sparking water. And be prepared to want to drink a lot of red wine afterwards, to clean the pipes.

Depending on when you are doing the tasting, I'd love to be involved. If possible.

ORGANOLEPTIC SENSATIONS TYPICAL OF EXTRA VIRGIN OLIVE OIL:

Fruity: aroma reminiscent of the smell and taste of olive (green or ripe): can be light, medium or intense.

Bitter: taste, more or less pleasant according to degree of intensity, of oil obtained from green olives.

Sharp: pungent sensation (from the poly phenols) typical of green, or barely ripe, olives.

Sweet: smooth, pleasant taste of an oil where bitter or sharp tastes are not predominant

Other positive sensations: apple, grass, almond, leaf, tomato, pine nut, walnut, artichoke etc…

Man cannot, in any way, improve the natural quality of an oil: it will be at its best when all the phases of production have been carried out correctly (growing, general health of the olives, ripening time, harvesting and conservation of the olives, processing, conservation of the oil).

Any error or unfortunate circumstance, occurring in any of these phases can negatively influence, even severely, the quality of the end product (defects will be apparent).

MAIN DEFECTS OF EXTRA VIRGIN OLIVE OIL:

Mold: comes from olives where fungi and yeasts have developed because of damp conditions

Heated: comes from olives which have been stored for too long in deep layers or in sacks and have undergone fermentation (mainly lactic).

Winey or vinegary: comes from olives that have undergone alcoholic or vinegar fermentation.

Marc: characteristic aroma from oil which has been in contact with its own lees for too long.

Rancid: characteristic aroma of oxidized oils exposed to air, light and high temperatures.

Regards,

Judith

[Rich Pawlak]

R. Evan Turney, Exec Chef at Mercato and Valanni, might be an excellent person to chat with at this tatsing, since he offers daily "flights" of olive oils at Mercato.

[Vadouvan]

Interesting, by daily flights , the oils change every day ?

That statement certainly helps to develop the idea.

I am proceeding from actual oil tasting to 3 dishes of which olive oil is an actual pivotal component.

I feel like any dish that falls into that category should have no more than 3 components max.

Thoughts anyone ?

Has anyone ever had an "olive risotto".

I am thinking standard risotto with lucques or arbequina, parmesan and doused with green spicy olive oil tableside.

[Rich Pawlak]

Interesting, by daily flights , the oils change every day ?

That statement certainly helps to develop the idea.

I am proceeding from actual oil tasting to 3 dishes of which olive oil is an actual pivotal component.

I feel like any dish that falls into that category should have no more than 3 components max.

Thoughts anyone ?

Has anyone ever had an "olive risotto".

I am thinking standard risotto with lucques or arbequina, parmesan and doused with green spicy olive oil tableside.

←

See, a chat with chef Turney might be in order!

And yes, the flights are a daily special at Mercato, and sometimes very very interesting

[Andrew Fenton]

I am proceeding from actual oil tasting to 3 dishes of which olive oil is an actual pivotal component.

I feel like any dish that falls into that category should have no more than 3 components max.

Thoughts anyone ?

Maybe some sort of pureed white bean soup with a nice drizzle of oil?

[wkl]

hey v, pomme puree using olive oil as the main blending ingredient?

actually, that may be repetative after the risotto, but i've found mashed potato to really show truffle oil and walnut oil well.

[Holly Moore]

I have a problem with tiramisu. I don't know how it should taste. Every restaurant seems to interpret it differently. So how do I recognize the best tiramisu? For me, tiramisu is like art; I know what I like. But I have no idea what Italy's tiramisu savant considers to be an ideal tiramisu.

So it is that I wonder about an olive oil tasting. Is there an ideal olive oil? What are its traits?

I remember a eureka moment with wine - my first wine tasting where two different wines were paired with the same dish. Could it be the same with olive oils? Perhaps comparing the taste and contribution of various olive oils as part of the same dish. Different olive oils may be best with different dishes. Not sure if that is what V. is suggesting, but it makes sense to me.

Edited January 27, 2007 by Holly Moore (log)

[matthewj]

V, I have done my own olive oil tasting, So I will send you my results.

A good ways to test olive oils is one set up a duel tasting. First I think that you should taste the olive oil by themselves first. Then use the same olive oil in a simple dish. Something clean, too much starch will color the oil. Another good way is to do a side by side comparison of Spanish vs, French, or Greek vs Italian. Or just pick one counrty and go with it. I feel that the french are very calm, well rounded oils, the Spanish oils like the Italians oils can smack you right in the face with the "greeness of the fruit".

It depends what region or climate you are looking at. Also iF you can find whether or not the olive was stone pressed or was was it pressed by a hydrolic machine. Were the olives hand picked, or machine picked. (olives are a lot like grapes the more they get banged around starts the process of extruding the oils, they can ferment causeing a heat bulid up) .

V I will send you my notes on the subject they maybe helpful. Check with Jack at downtown, he's got a good selection. Aslo talk to Tod he's got some great oils we sold him.

Holly I have a very good recipe for Tiramisu. I too often find that many restaurants have too varied tiramasu. Too wet, or too dry, too much alchohol, or not enough. I worked with some Italians over the past 3 years. I have a very good recipe for you, but it requires a larger amount so you may have to scale it down.

[Vadouvan]

Andrew Fenton :

Maybe some sort of pureed white bean soup with a nice drizzle of oil?

Andrew, I feel even something so seemingly simple like that would mask the flavor.

In order to develop the flavor of a white bean soup, you need strong aromatics, Mirepoix plus garlic for one, Smoked ham hocks or shanks and for ultimate flavor, duck fat as the cooking oil for sweating the mirepoix. Olive oil garnish would be mostly visual, in order to make a flavor contribution to such a soup, I would go the route of an extra virgin hazelnut or pistachio oil like the keller oils. I feel like dishes should not suffer for thier garnishes.

And that's the whole point, garnishes as opposed to garnishes that are a lynchpin of flavor.

Although I am thinking some kind of Crudo-sashimi type thing would be great, I poured through my library and though I am loathe to reproduce recipes, there is an interesting dish in the Tesuya book.

Raw Scallop with tomato sorbet, this would be perfect for a fruity ripe Olio.

Here it is on Amazon, you can even peek inside :

http://www.amazon.com/Tetsuya-Recipes-Aust...f/dp/1580082947

WKL:

ey v, pomme puree using olive oil as the main blending ingredient?

actually, that may be repetative after the risotto, but i've found mashed potato to really show truffle oil and walnut oil well.

Again Bill, Same theory as above, mashed potatoes always need cream and butter or in my opinion its garbage, once it's totally smooth, it needs butter (maybe not the proportions Murkury uses at Ze Atelier... ).

However two things would work well.

1. Pomme Ecrasee with chervil.

2. An Italian "potato Salad". Boiled in skins, cut open,salt, pepper, red vinegar and heavily doused with olive oil while it is steaming.

MatthewJ:

V, I have done my own olive oil tasting, So I will send you my results.

A good ways to test olive oils is one set up a duel tasting. First I think that you should taste the olive oil by themselves first. Then use the same olive oil in a simple dish. Something clean, too much starch will color the oil. Another good way is to do a side by side comparison of Spanish vs, French, or Greek vs Italian. Or just pick one counrty and go with it. I feel that the french are very calm, well rounded oils, the Spanish oils like the Italians oils can smack you right in the face with the "greeness of the fruit".

It depends what region or climate you are looking at. Also iF you can find whether or not the olive was stone pressed or was was it pressed by a hydrolic machine. Were the olives hand picked, or machine picked. (olives are a lot like grapes the more they get banged around starts the process of extruding the oils, they can ferment causeing a heat bulid up) .

V I will send you my notes on the subject they maybe helpful. Check with Jack at downtown, he's got a good selection. Aslo talk to Tod he's got some great oils we sold him.

Thanks Matt, what kinda oils did you sell Tod /

I generally despise greek olive oils, they tend to get rancid quickly, I am trying to get my hands on a Nyons Olive oil ?

Any Ideas ?

I remember Jack used to sell them , I think you and I were the only people who bought it ?

http://www.domainerocheville.com/olivea.html

Edited January 27, 2007 by Vadouvan (log)

[matthewj]

Jack doesn't sell Nyon anymore? That sucks. I sold tod two french oils. both slightly flavored. But the interesting thing is that the flavor was pressed with the olive, not infused after. SO the oil is very friuty and round like a French oil, but has subtle flavors of Basil, and thyme and rosemary.

My parents came back from greece with a greek oil that was more redolent of Spanish oil. Green, but did not kick me in the balls. Some oils I thick would be worth a shot

Picual

Hoja blanca

Verdial

Arbequina

Empeltre

corniciabra

Lucques is also one of my favorites.

[Vadouvan]

Thanks

I have Aguibal's Trio of the spanish ones, Tucan, Sicilian, Lombardy.

I will try to find a Nyons from Francvin in New York Next week.

Edited January 27, 2007 by Vadouvan (log)

[matthewj]

youneed to come down here, and check out what we buy directly from France. Side note: If anyone is interested i eating great Perigord Truffles, Not that chemically truffle oil, or the Bourdeux truffles. Shuffle over to Twenty Twenty one. We just sold him 2# of gorgeous truffles. He probalbly has the only perigodines in the city. And I know his cooking is quite good. No gaseous elements involved

[xtian]

On the olive oil subject-- Friends had brought us back olive oil from Marrakesh that was the best I've ever had. The writing was in Arabic, so I don't know the name.

Does anyone know of some good Morrocan olive oil that cen be sourced in Philly/Montco?

[Vadouvan]

Moulins Mahoub is "Tunisian" and available locally, most North African oils have the same characteristics.

[Holly Moore]

Holly I have a very good recipe for Tiramisu.  I too often find that many restaurants have too varied tiramasu.  Too wet, or too dry, too much alchohol, or not enough.  I worked with some Italians over the past 3 years. I have a very good recipe for you, but it requires a larger amount so you may have to scale it down.

←

Would be interested taking a look at it. No problem scaling it down if I have to, but we're talking tiramisu, so that might not be necessary.

[Vadouvan]

Olive oil tasting seemed to be fun if not completely scientific.

Thanks to all who actually replied and showed up last night.

Phil A. will be posting the pics and further comments by other attendees.

We just randomly chose 13 oils that we had access to, we all decided that a more focused tasting of 6 to 8 oils would be more coincise.

Oils were as follows.

1.Dibruno Frutatto

2.Marques De Valdueza

3.Le Moulins Mahjoub

4.Novello / Marc Vetri

5.Carm

6.Yellingbo

7.Frantoia

8.Aguibal Manzanilla

9.Aguibal Arbequina

10.Becchina Olio Verde

11.Armando Manni Per Me

12.Armando Manni Per Me Figlio

13.Planeta

Clearly there are some great oils out there we wanted to gather but they are way more expensive. Iwould like to see Geraci, Nunez De Prado and Laudemio in the next tasting.

Tasting was structured as

Smell/Aroma

Color

Flavor

Heat sensitivity

Affinity with food.

SMELL / AROMA

I decided to go with the Amplifier, It pushes aroma's further foward than any other glass and has the best functional swirl.

COLOUR and FLAVOR

We used plastic inert 2 oz crytal clear cups.

Philadinings new flourescent rig highlighted the room perfectly.

HEAT SENSITIVITY

Using a standard graduted flask, we heated up the oil with a hot air gun, temp was monitored with infra-red thermometer.

Basically compared samples of the same oils with a 20 to 30 degree difference.

Makes a big difference.

More comments about this when the "Risotto of Nothing" is discussed.

FOOD AFFINITY

We decided to see the impact of Olive oil on various types of food and assembled a variety of small tastes to see the contribution of olive oil at the end.

All dishes had olive oil added to the plate at the end.

One could then taste the dish before and after the addition of oil.

The dishes were as follows.

Onaga Ceviche. Tomato-Tarragon Sorbet. Fennel. Mint. Cilantro. Aji Panca.

Grilled Pane Rustica. Bincho-Tan Charcoal. Pesto

Warm Burratta. Red Orach. Sea Salt. Black Pepper

Risotto of Nothing. Parmesan.

Lentil Stew. Chick Pea. Iberico Chorizo, Iberico Salsichon, Finochiona, Piquillo. Esplette. Benton Bacon.

Mozzarella Ice Cream. Black Olive Sugar.

Comments will follow after Phil's Pics.

More Shenanigans

While the stoves were hot, we figure we would take a stab at the chicken issue.

We cooked a bluefoot and Eberly Chicken exactly the same way and did a side by side comparison.

Everyone immediately picked the bluefoot within 3 bites.

Chickens were both :

Breast Meat Only.

3 Grams of Maldon Salt each.

CSV with 2oz Olive Oil 58C 2 Hrs.

Seared Black Steel Pan/ Grapeseed oil.

Again, more commentary from attendees and Phil.

This was fun.

[Tim Dolan]

Mozzarella ice cream? Sounds like Iron Chef ain't got nothin' on you guys.

[philadining]

Olive oil tasting seemed to be fun if not completely scientific.

Thanks to all who actually replied and showed up last night.

Phil A. will be posting the pics and further comments by other attendees.

We just randomly chose 13 oils that we had access to, we all decided that a more focused tasting of 6 to 8 oils would be more coincise.

Oils were as follows.

1.Dibruno Frutatto

2.Marques De Valdueza

3.Les Moulins Mahjoub

4.Novello / Marc Vetri

5.Carm

6.Yellingbo

7.Frantoia

8.Aguibal Manzanilla

9.Aguibal Arbequina

10.Becchina Olio Verde

11.Armando Manni Per Me

12.Armando Manni Per Me Figlio

13.Planeta

Clearly there are some great oils out there we wanted to gather but they are way more expensive. Iwould like to see Geraci, Nunez De Prado and Laudemio in the next tasting.

Tasting was structured as

Smell/Aroma

Color

Flavor

Heat sensitivity

Affinity with food.

SMELL / AROMA

I decided to go with the Amplifier, It pushes aroma's further foward than any other glass and has the best functional swirl.

COLOR and FLAVOR

We used plastic inert 2 oz crytal clear cups.

Philadinings new flourescent rig highlighted the room perfectly.

HEAT SENSITIVITY

Using a standard graduted flask, we heated up the oil with a hot air gun, temp was monitored with infra-red thermometer.

Basically compared samples of the same oils with a 20 to 30 degree difference.

Makes a big difference.

More comments about this when the "Risotto of Nothing" is discussed.

FOOD AFFINITY

We decided to see the impact of Olive oil on various types of food and assembled a variety of small tastes to see the contribution of olive oil at the end.

All dishes had olive oil added to the plate at the end.

One could then taste the dish before and after the addition of oil.

The dishes were as follows.

Onaga Ceviche. Tomato-Tarragon Sorbet. Fennel. Mint. Cilantro. Aji Panca.

Grilled Pane Rustica. Bincho-Tan Charcoal. Pesto

Warm Burratta. Red Orach. Sea Salt. Black Pepper

Risotto of Nothing. Parmesan.

Lentil Stew. Chick Pea. Iberico Chorizo, Iberico Salsichon, Finochiona, Piquillo. Esplette. Benton Bacon.

Mozzarella Ice Cream. Black Olive Sugar.

More Shenanigans

While the stoves were hot, we figure we would take a stab at the chicken issue.

We cooked a bluefoot and Eberly Chicken exactly the same way and did a side by side comparison.

Everyone immediately picked the bluefoot within 3 bites.

Chickens were both :

Breast Meat Only.

3 Grams of Maldon Salt each.

CSV with 2oz Olive Oil 58C 2 Hrs.

Seared Black Steel Pan/ Grapeseed oil.

Again, more commentary from attendees and Phil.

This was fun.

Edited February 3, 2007 by philadining (log)

[KatieLoeb]

Dang. Y'all outdid yourselves.

Next time tell me in advance, K?

Risotto of Nothing. I love you guys....

[Rich Pawlak]

Goddammit, I completely forgot about this. I miss all the fun stuff......

[MarketStEl]

Dang.  Y'all outdid yourselves.

Next time tell me in advance, K?

Risotto of Nothing. I love you guys....

←

What Katie said. Hmph.