Philadelphia Tasters' Club

[Rich Pawlak]

Has anyone actually had the Gachot Ribeye at Barclay Prime ?

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Yes, and it was one of the very best cuts of meat I've had the privilege of enjoying.

[Jeff L]

Has anyone actually had the Gachot Ribeye at Barclay Prime ?

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Just after they first opened, I tried the ribeye. One word really, probably the most overused word but heck, awesome!

Edited February 14, 2007 by Jeff L (log)

[Daniel]

Dibruno butter selection is very good, the butter made from Parmigiano production is awesome.

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I totally agree with you on this.. I absolutely love that type of butter.. I keep a nice selection of butter around and this is my favorite..

[townsend]

here's one vote for echire butter.

also, torchon is the french word for (kitchen) towel and in regards to foie gras torchon it refers to the item in which the foie gras is wrapped thus resulting in the cylindrical shape.

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J,

I second the echire vote...MJR, what is name of the butter you were using with the seaweed?

T

[dagordon]

Ok this thread has me very interested on a couple of fronts:

1) In technical terms how is it that one vendor’s steak can be so far and above the others.  Do they raise their own cows, control the feed, or are their buyers just really good at spotting the best. 

They don't raise their own cows. According to the Steingarten article already referenced, they buy most of their beef (or at least did at the time of the article) at the Hunts Point market in the Bronx.

I suspect that their buyers are very discriminating, but that a large part of it is just that they're willing to pay what it costs for the highest levels of Prime. And they dry age their stuff properly, and longer than most, which contributes to the cost -- dry aging is expensive.

2) I do not consider myself a steak connoisseur, but if Lobels charges 95 for a steak, do they also supply restaurants.  I very rarely see a steak on a menu at that price point without the word Kobe next to it.  Where and at what price would I find their steaks.

I don't think they supply restaurants... The only place where I've had non-Wagyu beef of Lobel's quality is at Luger's. (The Luger's steak that we got for the tasting, though, was, by unanimous agreement, not as good as the Lobel's.)

Interestingly, they used to have a steak house in the early 80s -- Lobel's Steak House, 43rd and 2nd. I learned of it from the eGullet discussion with Evan Lobel (which is pretty interesting in its own right). As Evan says there (and as a one star 1982 NYT review from Mimi Sheraton confirms) the meat itself was very highly reviewed, but the other stuff not so much (Evan mentions that the partners were not ideal.)

[MarketStEl]

A followup question I forgot to ask:

Sandy, one thing to note is that beef marbling grades are properties of the entire carcass, not of indiviudal steaks.

The USDA ascertains marbling grade between the 12th and 13th rib.

The Japanese system looks between the 6th and 7th ribs.

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What is the difference in marbling, if any, between meat taken from between ribs 12 and 13 and that taken from in between ribs 6 and 7?

[dagordon]

A followup question I forgot to ask:

Sandy, one thing to note is that beef marbling grades are properties of the entire carcass, not of indiviudal steaks.

The USDA ascertains marbling grade between the 12th and 13th rib.

The Japanese system looks between the 6th and 7th ribs.

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What is the difference in marbling, if any, between meat taken from between ribs 12 and 13 and that taken from in between ribs 6 and 7?

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There will be less marbling at ribs 6 and 7. (This is one reason why cuts from the other side, closer to the short loin, are somtimes called "first cut" and carry a premium.) Here, have a look at this document I just found -- for beef "ribbed" for export in between ribs 5 and 6 or 6 and 7, the marbling requirement for Prime is actually lower than normal -- marbling can be only "Moderate" and it can still be Prime. B/c presumably if it's Moderate b/w ribs 5 and 6 or 6 and 7 it will still be Slightly Abundant b/w 12 and 13.

Mmmmm, marbling...

[Neuronix]

"Do you know how expensive that pint of raspberries is?

Don't you know you never wash raspberries?"

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That chef is an idiot. Imported raspberries are a leading cause of cyclosporiasis, caused by the parasite Cyclospora. Simple rinsing with water will rinse the parasite right off and is a recommended preventative measure.

Edited February 17, 2007 by Neuronix (log)

[Vadouvan]

That chef is an idiot. Imported raspberries are a leading cause of cyclosporiasis, caused by the parasite Cyclospora. Symptoms include "explosive" watery diarrhea. Simple rinsing with water will rinse the parasite right off and is a recommended preventative measure.

Duuuuuuude, can we not discuss disgusting medical issues on this thread , we would like to keep it focused on the pleasures of food and tasting..... maybe someone needs to start a food borne illness symptom thread but it deviates too far from the point of this one that I personally have no interest in those images.....

Edited February 16, 2007 by Vadouvan (log)

[guzzirider]

Consider this post a palette cleanser for your brain.

Ok... continue....

__Jason

[Ducksredux]

And let's keep this on the down low, please.  Last thing we need are the roaming band of sign carrying and chanting Foie Gras protesters that have been hounding Amada and M lately stopping by to ruin everyone's fun. 

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I just encountered them for the first time tonight, outside Deux Cheminees. Said they'll be back every Saturday night. Seems to me they could effect much greater social change if they were to stand at the corner of 56th and Kingsessing and protest the murder rate.

Tried the Moulin Mahjoub today - very grassy indeed. The DiBrunos folks are all fans of Marques de Valdueza but it wasn't in my budget this time.

[percyn]

Dibruno butter selection is very good, the butter made from Parmigiano production is awesome.

Speaking of butter, I just returned from Chicago and was served a goat's milk butter (from Quebec) at Alinea and a parmasean butter at Avenues. However, my all time favorite butter was seaweed butter used to sear scallops at L'atelier de Joel Robuchon.

Anyone know of a local source for the seaweed or goat's milk butter? Hmm...maybe we can try to make this at home in a big batch if we ever do a butter tasting.

[wkl]

percy- if you find yourself in wilmington, jannssens grocery in greenville has a goat's milk butter imported from the uk. i think it was called "st helens farm". kinda expensive, but everything at jannssens is pricey, but high quality.

website:http://sthelensfarm.co.uk/creambutter.htm

eta; link

Edited February 18, 2007 by wkl (log)

[percyn]

Thanks Bill...I just returned from grocery shopping at Wegmans and noticed they carry St Helens as well. Will try and to see how close it was to the Quebec one.

[Vadouvan]

Spotted at Dibruno's 18th and Chestnut today.....

[TarteTatin]

YUM!

(Fork, etc. carries a few brands also)

[Vadouvan]

DAgordon.

How much and where did you find Minus -8 ?

[dagordon]

DAgordon.

How much and where did you find Minus -8 ?

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Had to get it online, unfortunately -- http://www.minus8vinegar.com/

I don't remember it being as expensive as it currently is on the site, but I might be misremebering.

[jmcgrath]

A comparison based on breed of cattle would also be really interesting.  I don't know what breeds we were eating last night.  The Wells Angus was, well, Angus.  But the others... Hereford?  I don't know.

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I think that CAB is a trademark, rather than a specifier of a particular breed of beef. The trademark means the beef meets certain standards.

Jim

[Andrew Fenton]

A comparison based on breed of cattle would also be really interesting.  I don't know what breeds we were eating last night.  The Wells Angus was, well, Angus.  But the others... Hereford?  I don't know.

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I think that CAB is a trademark, rather than a specifier of a particular breed of beef. The trademark means the beef meets certain standards.

It's both. Angus is a breed of cattle; CAB is a trademark referring to a subset of high-grade Angus. An explanation, at the CAB website.

[Vadouvan]

Part 3. Steaks Revisisted

After several intellectual discusions and some research on meat, DAgordon and a few others decided it would be interesting to see if the cooking method affected one's perception and enjoyment of a particular steak. The initial steak tasting used trditional cooking methods uniformly, basic pan sear to rare/med rare and 5 minute resting.

The next tasting not only tests the cooking methods but also the variation in quality between a "boutique" steak and a publicly acessible steak.

DAgordon procured some fancy steaks which he will expand on........David ?

The publicly acessible steaks were procured from whole foods at 10th and South.

Both Dry Aged New York Strips Bone Out.

Each type of steak will be cooked 3 different ways.

1. Traditional pan sear, salt, pepper, rest.

2. Vaccum Marinate overnight, CSV 53C 4Hrs, QuickSear for maillard reaction, rest.

3. Grill, Oshima Sea salt, sake, Bincho-Tan Charcoal.

Supplemental Info.

https://www.surfasonline.com/products/23005.cfm

http://www.charcoallife.com/english/bincyotan.html

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=72594

[dagordon]

The "boutique" steaks are from Bryan Flannery in California -- here's the website, though there's not really much on it. Thanks to shacke for turning us on to this stuff. The beef is very high level Prime from Brandt in California. Bryan, who is incidentally extremely nice to deal with, offers a choice of dry-aging times; these were aged between 35-40 days (this is what he recommends). They go all the way up to 60 days.

The Flannery steaks look fantastic. And the Whole Foods steaks look pretty good too -- I suspect they will redeem Whole Foods, after their poor showing in the first tasting. These are definitely dry-aged.

https://www.surfasonline.com/products/23005.cfm

This is an offense to my honor. The salt you got from me is the exclusive Oshima Island Blue label salt, not the measly Red label.

[alwang]

2. Vaccum Marinate overnight, CSV 53C 4Hrs, QuickSear for maillard reaction, rest.

I'm curious what the marinade's going to be? It seems like a better comparison to keep the flavors relatively similar across the three methods...

Also, do you usually do steaks CSV for that many hours? Unless these are seriously thick steaks, it seems it wouldn't take nearly that long for the core temp to reach 53C: even a 2" steak will only take about 2.5 hours. I understand the advantage to longer cooking times for cuts with a lot of cartilage that needs to be broken down, but that wouldn't seem to be the case for a NY Strip.

Eagerly awaiting the results! I'm still trying to refine my own techniques for steaks CSV.

-al

[Vadouvan]

This is an offense to my honor. The salt you got from me is the exclusive Oshima Island Blue label salt, not the measly Red label.

Posted the wrong website...

http://www.cortibros.biz/tek9.asp?pg=produ...ecific=jopseol8

I'm curious what the marinade's going to be? It seems like a better comparison to keep the flavors relatively similar across the three methods...

Also, do you usually do steaks CSV for that many hours? Unless these are seriously thick steaks, it seems it wouldn't take nearly that long for the core temp to reach 53C: even a 2" steak will only take about 2.5 hours. I understand the advantage to longer cooking times for cuts with a lot of cartilage that needs to be broken down, but that wouldn't seem to be the case for a NY Strip.

Al, Vaccum marination doesn't always involve a "marinade" in the classical sense like some mess of soy, mustard, wasabi ect ect.

The word "marinate" is used as an adjective, the only added flavors are oil, salt, pepper, fresh laurel leaf and thyme.

The vaccum is to help the flavor and salt absorbtion.

That being said, yes from a comparative aspect it makes sense to keep the flavors relatively similar but the point in this case as opposed to the last tasting is to see if the steaks can be improved by the cooking method, slight adjustments are being made according to the method to compensate. In the real world sense, each cooking method is being performed as one would do it alone without comparing it to the other two.

I have found that the "marination" actually improves CSV because the meat has a deeper profile than simple "Surface Seasoning" of a traditional pan sear which is quite tasty done properly.

The question here is how much more tasty.

Also the french bistro style traditional sear is finished (basted) in the pan with brown butter emulsified with whatever cooking juices and I usually throw in a sprig of thyme and laurel during the spoon basting process. It also becomes the resting medium.

As to Timing, the bath is programmed to go to 54C, hold for 2.5hrs and go back to 53C holding temp. It also starts from refrigerated core temperature and the steaks are almost 3 inches thick with a fatcap on one side.

No we are not looking for tenderisation of cartilage but the extra 30 mins wont ruin the texture.

[alwang]

As to Timing, the bath is programmed to go to 54C, hold for 2.5hrs and go back to 53C holding temp. It also starts from refrigerated core temperature and the steaks are almost 3 inches thick with a fatcap on one side.

No we are not looking for tenderisation of cartilage but the extra 30 mins wont ruin the texture.

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3 inch thick new york strip...dammit, it's 8:15AM and I want me some steak. Thanks for the answers.