Gordon Ramsay at the London

[Vadouvan]

I am not sure we got an accurate impression of what the lunch portion sizes were.

I am not complaining but the portion sizes we had are in no way consistent with a $55 lunch price fixe.

Risdeveau was bigger than a golf ball in addition to the bordering on copious addition of truffle.

Turbot was a standard 7 to 8 oz portion...and turbot is expensive.

Typically 5 to 6oz fish portions are $35 entrees in manhattan.

I have had lame lamb dishes that werent anywhere that big at Daniel for over $40.

Portion sizes were not small.

I would consider it a 3 course a la carte size as opposed to a 3 course tasting menu size.

As for the richness.....Hmmmmm, here is where it gets dicey.

It would be such poor form to criticise the food when they arent even open and they just fed you silly to the tune of several $$$$ for free..

However.....in my best evasive Clintonian response....

I think what Murkury and I meant when we said "nothing new" is that none of the sauces we had were a departure from the classic stock/Demiglace/Meat jus route.

It would have been nice to see some lighter non stock based infusions of vegetable juices and such.

Sweetbreads were such the shizzy, they negated any sauce formulation issues.

The sauce was the achilles heel of the turbot dish.

Fish was excellent, perfectly cooked but I find that few people make red wine sauces properly and unless you add 2 tablespoons of sugar to any red wine sauce, it gets too acrid.

Even a lighter Bordelaise or Merchand de vin would be much preferable to civet, I usually expect civet with game....

Edited November 8, 2006 by Vadouvan (log)

[johnder]

Eater is reporting some union related news, you can read the full story here.

[BryanZ]

Wow, that Eater report sounds like bad news.

[Vadouvan]

Eater is full of gossip and conjecture and frankly represents everything wrong with food journalism.

I might as well subscribe to the National Enquirer.

Can we let the place open first before spelling it's doom ?

[johnder]

Eater is full of gossip and conjecture and frankly represents everything wrong with food journalism.

I might as well subscribe to the National Enquirer.

Can we let the place open first before spelling it's doom ?

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Good point Vadouvan.

[murkcury]

Vadouvan/Murkcury

How was the richness level of his foods you tasted?  One of the things that I have heard is although the portions are small, his food tends to be on the richer side of things.

How about the portion size?

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Again, I'm not sure if the portions that we enjoyed on this particular day will be indicative of the actual plates served for their prix-fixe lunch, but I found them to be rather generous. I would consider them full a la carte size. A three course lunch left me more than sated (I even left some of my mignardises untouched).

In terms of richness I'm not sure I can either confirm or deny what you've heard. Based on our limited sampling I would say that balance won over. In terms of potential sources of richness, I found the butternut veloute (amuse) nicely restrained where it easily could have veered off into the land of over-enrichment. I did, however, find the cauliflower cream served with the langoustine/chicken first course to be a bit rich. Perhaps a little too much cream and not quite enough cauliflower. Still, in the context of the dish it worked. Main courses exhibited deep flavors but nothing particularly overwhelming. We aren't talking spa cuisine, that's for sure, but, at the same time, it wasn't a heavy or weighty meal.

[BryanZ]

This is bizzare but worth reading. Supposedly when Bruni et al was calling for reservations in the main dining room he was informed of a two hour time limit on late tables, but no time limit on early ones. This happened to Bruni twice and a colleague as well.

While GR media personel seem to have cited this is a major oversight on the part of the reservationists, it's bizzare that they'd even consider instituting this policy. With that said this could easily be like the the whole "no photo" controversy that popped up with this restaurant a couple months back.

I'm waiting to see this place open and am hoping for the best.

The Bruniblog post.

[johnder]

Interesting. I am not sure how they could even enforce that. Especially if you do the larger tasting menu.

[stetson99]

I really hope this new endeavor works out well for him, but he's clearly got an uphill battle to fight. The place has not even open yet and already there's negative PR from the initial union rumors and now this time limit issue. Of course I take it all as a grain of fluer de sal until it can be independently verified that these are in fact true. I still must wonder if Ramsay has yet to learn the Great Truth about overseas chefs attempting to stake their claim in New York: "Those that fail to learn from the mistakes of Ducasse are condemned to repeat them."

[oakapple]

This is bizzare but worth reading.  Supposedly when Bruni et al was calling for reservations in the main dining room he was informed of a two hour time limit on late tables, but no time limit on early ones.  This happened to Bruni twice and a colleague as well.

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Time for Ramsay to panic. When Bruni is complaining about service before the place has even opened to the public, it's not a good sign.

[BryanZ]

At least he's not complaining about cost a la Gilt.

[Sneakeater]

This is all getting a little old.

Anyone who's ever known anyone from Britain knows what "smart" means when applied to something like clothes.

And while an explicit two-hour limit is certainly unhospitable, the resentment the posters on the Bruni blog display with respect to anything less than absolute customer-is-king attitudes at high-end restaurants is stupidly over-the-top, as if they're so underprivileged they have to overreact to any perceived slight. If you don't like it, don't go. But the endless how-dare-he and, more to the point, how-can-people-be-so-stupid-as-to-take-this-they-must-be-trendoid-sheep-anyone-who-ever-goes-to-expensive-restaurants-is-a-dupe stuff is just a bunch of narrowminded tiresome envious twaddle.

Edited November 11, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[BryanZ]

The comments on Bruniblog could spur an entire discussion themselves. Yes, most of the commentary there is rather innane, but make sure you don't tell them I said that or else I risk being sacrificed to the populist masses.

I just thought the two-hour limit in itself was interesting for a restaurant with Michelin 3-star aspirations.

[Nathan]

Bruni has shown an ability to overcome an initial poor impression. See his original post on L'Atelier JR

[Sneakeater]

Don't tell Mr. Ramsay, but unfortunately New Yorkers don't intimidate very easily.

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Intimidation might not be the right word, but the basic idea of coming in at a lower price point seems sensible.

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Having thought about this, I wonder whether I agree with it.

Are you saying that it's a good idea to open with lower prices than you eventually plan to charge? That strikes me as a bit of a bait and switch. Remember how upset people here got when Country raised their prices after they got a highly favorable New York Times review? It's one thing to have lower "introductory prices" that are expressly so designated. But it strikes me as a bit of a sharp practice -- nothing very high on the insidiousness scale, but still a bit sharp -- to open with low "stealth" prices, knowing you'll soon raise them.

Edited November 12, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[tan319]

At least he's not complaining about cost a la Gilt.

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He'll get around to it???

[Sneakeater]

It's not that expensive.

[Sneakeater]

Yet.

[oakapple]

The comments on Bruniblog could spur an entire discussion themselves.  Yes, most of the commentary there is rather innane, but make sure you don't tell them I said that or else I risk being sacrificed to the populist masses.

I just thought the two-hour limit in itself was interesting for a restaurant with Michelin 3-star aspirations.

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For the benefit of those who may not have read the Bruni post, the two-hour limit seems only to apply to reservations after about 8:45 p.m., or so. What's more, when Bruni called the mgmt to inquire about the policy, they responded that "If anyone’s being told that, it’s a mistake....No one should be told that.”

But yes, if that's really the policy, it is peculiar for a restaurant aspiring to NYT 4/Michelin 3 stars.

Bruni has shown an ability to overcome an initial poor impression.  See his original post on L'Atelier JR

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Actually, he hasn't. His original post on L'Atelier wasn't a "poor impression". It was mostly favorable, concluding with "I felt a little thrill. And, yes, a definite sense of moment."

The Ramsay post isn't comparable, as he hasn't yet tasted a morsel there. But in restaurants aspiring to four stars (as this one clearly is), Bruni expects service to be imeccable. It's hard for a restaurant that hasn't opened yet to be already deficient in service, but Ramsay has managed it. Depending on which spokesperson you believe, either they are imposing a Draconian deadline that is unusual for a luxury restaurant; or, they haven't given the right instructions to the reservations staff.

Don't tell Mr. Ramsay, but unfortunately New Yorkers don't intimidate very easily.

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Intimidation might not be the right word, but the basic idea of coming in at a lower price point seems sensible.

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Having thought about this, I wonder whether I agree with it.

Are you saying that it's a good idea to open with lower prices than you eventually plan to charge? That strikes me as a bit of a bait and switch. Remember how upset people here got when Country raised their prices after they got a highly favorable New York Times review? It's one thing to have lower "introductory prices" that are expressly so designated. But it strikes me as a bit of a sharp practice -- nothing very high on the insidiousness scale, but still a bit sharp -- to open with low "stealth" prices, knowing you'll soon raise them.

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I'm certainly not privy to Ramsay's plans, but the announced prices are lower than all of the current Michelin 3-star restaurants in New York. Given that Ramsay considers himself a peer of those restaurants, it's hard to imagine that prices won't go up, if business is good.

Another data point is that a recent Forbes article had Gordon Ramsay RHR (on which the new restaurant is clearly modeled) on the list of "World's Most Expensive Restaurants 2006," with an average check for one of US$183.

Is this "sharp practice"? It doesn't bother me. Look at how the prices at Per Se went up.

Edited November 12, 2006 by oakapple (log)

[dan.]

This is bizzare but worth reading.  Supposedly when Bruni et al was calling for reservations in the main dining room he was informed of a two hour time limit on late tables, but no time limit on early ones.  This happened to Bruni twice and a colleague as well.

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Time for Ramsay to panic. When Bruni is complaining about service before the place has even opened to the public, it's not a good sign.

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Don't you mean that when your reservationists are warning customers of a two hour time limit it's time to panic. Strange to pin this on Bruni when it could've been anyone with a blog mentioning the tactic.

[oakapple]

Time for Ramsay to panic. When Bruni is complaining about service before the place has even opened to the public, it's not a good sign.

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Don't you mean that when your reservationists are warning customers of a two hour time limit it's time to panic. Strange to pin this on Bruni when it could've been anyone with a blog mentioning the tactic.

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I think Bruni's posts get more traffic than the typical blog, and his published reviews (of which the blog posts are usually a preview) certainly do.

[dan.]

You seem to be saying the Ramsey should panic because the biggest food blogger in the land figured him out. I’m saying maybe there would be no need to panic if he wasn’t making a point of warning diners about a two hour time limit. More likely, he could simply care less.

When Bruni is complaining about service before the place has even opened to the public

This line is simply spin.

[whisk]

Bruni's comment on "smart" dress was a cheap shot. "Smart" is a commonly used expression in Britain, and I've also heard the term here.

As far as the two-hour time limit, I can't possibly fathom that Ramsay and his subordinates would ever have greenlighted this, given that is so basic a faux pas, especially in the States. This seems like a mistake/confusion on the reservationists part. But this mistake, if it is one, speaks to an operational deficiency and may be attributed to an operations head.

[oakapple]

You seem to be saying the Ramsey should panic because the biggest food blogger in the land figured him out.  I’m saying maybe there would be no need to panic if he wasn’t making a point of warning diners about a two hour time limit.  More likely, he could simply care less.

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Bruni has another post up today. The reservationists are no longer mentioning a two-hour limit. It remains to be seen whether the reservationists were confused, or if Ramsay has changed his mind after being publicly ridiculed.

"He could simply care less" is an unlikely explanation. Ramsay has a lot of his own money in this place, and he has admitted in various interviews that he's nervous as heck. (That's not exactly how he put it, but you get the idea.) Two-hour time limts for luxury dining? I'm sure that's not the first impression he had in mind.

[robyn]

The dinner policy at RHR has been (perhaps forever) that the restaurant reserves the right to limit diners at dinner to 2 hours. This is to get in 2 seatings during prime dinner hours. Knowing this in advance - we opted to eat lunch there. And we dined undisturbed for about 3 hours. Best meal we've had in the last 3 or 4 years (my husband had the fixed lunch - I ordered a la carte - neither of us had the tasting menu).

I mean really - what would you rather have. A 2 hour dinner at GR at dinner time (7 or 9 pm) - or a 4-5 hour dinner at Per Se that starts at cocktail time (5 pm) or close to bed time (10 pm). On my part - I like to eat dinner at dinner time. Robyn