Overweight kids

[eJulia]

I do understand the concerns and issues with excess weight, but want to caution you about maintaining your child's self esteem. I was put on my first diet in the second grade, not only separating me from my classmates, but confirming to me that I was somehow "wrong".

I'd look for answers about why over-eating was working, or what it was covering up. In my own case, I was being sexually molested by a sibling, which was never discovered by a parent, and didn't stop until I moved out of the house. (Not intended to imply anything about your child or family.)

Understanding, good communication, support and love will in MHO work better than any other "therapy".

Good luck and God bless.

[Milagai]

How to get him to enjoy making healthier choices, so he'll do it more often?  That's the rub.    

Any and all advice is much appreciated.

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eh, there's the rub for ALL of us....

enjoying healthier choices....

my kids look like they will parallel yours.

skinny, healthy eating, athletic 8 yo girl vs.

currently skinny but who knows later,

picky-eating junk loving (despite us being a mostly junkfree house)

hates-to-move 4 yo boy.

early on we established that there would not be multiple menus

so i hope that may head off issues later when each kid wants to

eat something different.... but who knows? nowt so queer as kids....

i don't know what your views are on alternative therapies but

do you think hypnotherapy may help your son to enjoy better choices?

pediatric hypnotherapy is fairly well regarded for a variety of issues

(ranging from pain control to ....) and since you said you were open

to any and all advice ......

this is something i am keeping in my mind for us if we get to that point......

milagai

Edited November 22, 2005 by Milagai (log)

[Fresser]

Want to eliminate the #1 source of calories in the typical US diet? Ix-nay on the odah-say.

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Uck Fay that It Shay. Pry it out of my dead hands, hockey puck.

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Confucius say: Child who guzzles sody pop gets diabetes and rotten teeth.

Oddly, Confucius made no mention of dead hands or other appendages.

[Venusia]

I agree about soft drinks and juice. If they miss the fizz in their drinks, I suggest cutting their juice with sparkling mineral water. We do this all the time, and can hardly drink real juice now as it tastes like syrup.

If you must keep junk food in your house: replace chips with pretzels and light popcorn, pudding with applesauce and yogourt, ice cream with frozen yogourt or sherbets. I buy apple almond granola bars that are more more wholesome than the chocolate covered marshmallow ones. It's all about substituting for equivalents with less and more healthy fats, sugars and salt.

I still love cauliflower cooked in milk with a bacon and cheese topping. Don't know if it's low fat, but it tastes good!

Steamed broccoli with oyster sauce.

Baked potato sticks with rosemary, coarse salt and olive oil rather than french fries.

Thin crust pizza.

For sports: what about Tai Chi? Tennis? Cross-country skiing (as a family activity)?

[FabulousFoodBabe]

This is yet another reason why I'm sensitive about my son's weight issues--I don't want him to grow up feeling self-conscious about his perfectly normal body, especially when he's such an amazing little person.  (For his birthday this year, he asked if we could donate money to an organization that was working to save the animals left homeless by Hurricane Katrina rather than buying him presents.  All together now:  "Awwwww . . .")   

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What a great kid. Makes ya want to buy him a present right now, doesn't it?

My son now wants to take martial arts; he has the perfect football body and played for a few years, but just didn't see much point in it and stopped. (He is pure grace in the water and we are a scuba-diving family, but -- this kills me -- he refuses to do swim team because he will NOT wear a Speedo! ) The dog-walking is good, and it helps them meet others. BTW, he taught himself to ride a bike when he was eight, and his world started to open up.

I've had to tell my son that other peoples' comments are about them, not him. that includes grandparents who refuse to stop making "fat" and "thin" comments about both our kids. Can't change others' behaviors, just our own.

About the food part of this: Sushi has been a life-saver. He loves it, can't get enough of it, and could eat unagi sashimi every day. (And, get this: He is an amazing gardener, and has been growing vegetables and herbs since he was about five. He still won't eat them! Hah!)

[pamjsa]

I agree about soft drinks and juice.  If they miss the fizz in their drinks, I suggest cutting their juice with sparkling mineral water.  We do this all the time, and can hardly drink real juice now as it tastes like syrup . . .

For sports: what about Tai Chi?  Tennis?  Cross-country skiing (as a family activity)?

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Tai Chi is a possibility, and we've thought about tennis. But we're in southern Texas, so cross-country skiing isn't going to work.

And by the way, no soda in our house. The only time my kids drink it is as a treat, when we go to a restaurant, and even then my son is more likely to order milk. And,as I said in an earlier post, the juice has already been cut back to one cup a day, if that.

Here's an interesting development: last night, I noticed that my son proclaimed himself full and then got up to ask "What's for dessert?" and inspect the kitchen cabinets. "If you're full, you don't need dessert," I said; "if you're not full, then finish your dinner first." He looked at me as if I'd lost my mind: no dessert? Surely, I must be joking. But he sat down at the table again and finished his dinner, and then he decided he'd wait awhile for dessert, and then he forgot about it altogether. So maybe this is as much (or more) a problem of habits and routines as of the food he's eating.

Malagai, my son was also a scrawny little guy until he turned six--then, suddenly, he started getting thick around the middle. I hadn't thought about hypnotherapy, but that would make sense if we determine this is more an issue of bad habits than poor food choices.

[Pontormo]

Funny that the gardener does not like to eat vegetables. After all, there are so many school programs modeled on the Edible Schoolyard that Alice Waters began in Berkeley out of the belief that children would become more enthusiastic and adventurous in eating foods they grow themselves.

This entire thread is interesting to read and I hope that you'll keep us apprised of your experiments, successes and failures as time goes on. Thank you for sharing this story with us.

Despite the one anecdote about the carnivorous hoer, I still like the advice about sharing cooking and shopping with your son best, and am especially curious to see how that works out. I have picked up a book by Marion Cunningham that covers simple cooking lessons she has given children, though I can only remember the ones for meatloaf, omelets and biscuits for some reason. I imagine that the one Waters wrote about her daughter Fanny might have some clues too. It's a tough call when NOT liking the foods your daughter eats is one way your son establishes his own identity in the family.

As for exercise, it is going to be hard to do this without your son feeling self-conscious and duty-bound....as many comments have indicated. It's a shame that the fun activities such as swimming, biking or martial arts are not all that appealing.

Even though I for one hate HAVING to exercise, at least I grew up at a time when parents were not fearful of allowing their children to play unsupervised outdoors for long stretches of time. Skating, sledding on golf courses, and yikes roaming in the woods were not something as regimented as sports and not duty-bound.

I was thinking that since your son is artistic, perhaps you could get him interested in making and flying kites. There is not a whole lot of running involved, but becoming interested in being outdoors is a good first step for someone who would rather be inside reading or drawing. Perhaps you could build things together. Anything that involves creating something, bending, moving around and being something other than a mind...

[anzu]

If he's open to the idea of martial arts, as he seems to be, how about judo, aikido, or iaido? These have a bit more 'oomph' than taichi (IMO), and so might be more attractive to a kid.

Unlike karate there's less scope for being hit, and with the first two the idea of being able to throw around someone your own size or even somewhat bigger might be very attractive (presuming he's receptive to the idea of being thrown himself. Stress the fact that you are taught how to fall properly and it's essentially painless!)

Heck, even I as a teenager who hated sports (and had rotten self image) still liked learning judo.

Iaido tends to be a bit less commonly taught, but is a Japanese martial art that involves using a sword (yes, a real one once you get more advanced) and is practiced entirely without a partner. So there's potentially the romance of the sword and the samurai history of the sport as well as zero chance of body contact. My husband has beein involved with Iaido for over a decade, and we've been together at Iaido events in Japan, France and Germany. All of them had kids of all ages particpating as well.

Heck, how do I get food into the topic? After all, it is eGullet...

I know, Fresser's comment upthread... for the gazillionth time: eating sugary food does NOT cause diabetes.

[jgm]

(And, get this:  He is an amazing gardener, and has been growing vegetables and herbs since he was about five.  He still won't eat them!  Hah!)

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Look at it this way: you're both planting seeds. He's planting vegetable and herb seeds, and you're planting seeds for his future. I predict that one day he'll decide to like vegetables, and when he does, he'll have the skills to grow them.

[jsolomon]

I know, Fresser's comment upthread... for the gazillionth time: eating sugary food does NOT cause diabetes.   

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That's right! Eating diabetics causes diabetes.

Wait...

nevermind.

[jsolomon]

Tai Chi is a possibility, and we've thought about tennis.  But we're in southern Texas, so cross-country skiing isn't going to work.   

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Check out these folks for 2 hours of lunges, twice weekly.

That's exercise! Example movies at the bottom of this page.

[pamjsa]

As for exercise, it is going to be hard to do this without your son feeling self-conscious and duty-bound.... Anything that involves creating something, bending, moving around and being something other than a mind...

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Well, given that his father and I--both academics--respond to illness by saying "I hate being reminded that I have a body!" this is sure to be a challenge for us all. I do appreciate the suggestions regarding other forms of martial arts; I really thought my son would go for karate, but the sparring thing made it a non-starter. Then again, maybe the problem was the class we'd enrolled him in? It seemed a little more boot-campy than I'd expected.

Interestingly, when I asked my son what he wanted for dinner tonight, he thought only briefly before saying "Turkey burgers and green beans. Maybe some pineapple." I fairly flew to the kitchen to start cooking, and he snapped the green beans while we chatted about his day at school, and during dinner my son made a point of asking Dad whether he liked the green beans, adding that he'd "made" them. (I did not correct him, naturally.)

There's another thread going now, regarding what kids would feed their families if they had the power to make those choices. Does anyone recommend putting kids in charge of (or at least keeping them intimately involved with) menu planning? I haven't done this so far because my son's favorites are so limited--and, well, because I hate menu planning, and prefer to cook whatever I'm in the mood for. But perhaps giving my son a measure of control over what's going to be on the table each night would be another way of encouraging him to think carefully about what he's eating.

[prasantrin]

There's another thread going now, regarding what kids would feed their families if they had the power to make those choices.  Does anyone recommend putting kids in charge of (or at least keeping them intimately involved with) menu planning?  I haven't done this so far because my son's favorites are so limited--and, well, because I hate menu planning, and prefer to cook whatever I'm in the mood for.  But perhaps giving my son a measure of control over what's going to be on the table each night would be another way of encouraging him to think carefully about what he's eating.

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Actually, I was going to suggest that. To start it off, you could just have him choose the vegetables for the meal, for example. Rather than have him think of what to add, start out with a list of vegetables to choose from, and within a week, for example, each vegetable on the list has to have been chosen at least once. You could do that with the whole menu--mix and match meals.

Even though this healthful meal planning is being done with your son in mind, all the family member's will have to change their behaviour. Whether that means having to plan meals instead of cooking what you're in the mood for, or everyone reducing the amount of junk food they eat (whether they need to or not), there's no way to avoid it.

edited my bad editing.

Edited November 23, 2005 by prasantrin (log)

[Pontormo]

Instead of snipping a series of quotes, I would like to refer the reader to the two previous entries directly above my own. Briefly, I wanted to say that one of the reasons I started the thread on children as menu planners (as of this post, on page 2) is related to this topic. I wanted to see not only what children prefer to eat themselves if they had a chance, but also what their concept of a meal was, or what they thought a meal ought to be. Would taste and family habits dominate selections? Were they developing a sense of a balanced diet, i.e., understanding WHY their fathers and mothers served broccoli and rice along with the chicken or chick peas?

It sounds as if the decision to let your son plan a meal and help prepare it really DID make a difference. The pride taken in the green beans is touching. Any more recent successes?

Now, even earlier in this thread there was a brief discussion of the excessive calories in soft drinks and juice, the former particularly bad for teeth and lacking the nutritional value of the latter.

I thought you might be interested in a recent article from the Business section of The Washington Post* which addresses the ways that PepsiCo Inc. is trying to refashion itself as a company that cares about the health of the consumer. The obesity of children is the focus:Work Off Those Cheetos!.

The strategy is one currently embraced by a number of companies: stop blaming the product and go out and exercise!

Edited November 25, 2005 by Pontormo (log)

[pamjsa]

Well, I'm pleased to report that we seem to be making some real progress. Getting my son involved with the menu planning (and resigning myself to planning, rather than cooking on the fly) was a really big step: when I put my son in charge of the dinner menu for this week, with no guidelines whatsoever, he made excellent choices all on his own. Every meal he designed included both a fruit and a vegetable! It appears he's internalized what a balanced meal looks like, even if he isn't always willing to eat what's good for him.

The sweetest part of this exercise was discovering that my son had designated one night as Chef's Choice, "so you can choose something that you like too, Mom."

Tonight's menu was (sort of) breakfast for dinner: scrambled egg and cheese tacos, apple slices, and baby carrots. Not a combination I would have come up with, but my son enjoyed everything on his plate for a change, and because he was full he didn't even ask about dessert. That's definitely a first.

Still working on the activity issue, but at least we're making some headway with his food choices. The question now is whether we'll rotate menu-planning responsibility--since my daughter certainly isn't going to stand by while her brother dictates all the meals--or start trying to plan by committee. I sense that won't be quite as appealing.

[goldie]

I think there are many good suggestions here. As the mom of three boys with different eating styles, I can certainly respect what you are up against. I do a few things in my house that might work out well for you. I just don't buy junky food and soda- teach them how to make quesadillas or carrots and humus and you are pretty good for crunchy snacks. Often my guys eat cereal for an afterschool snack (healthier cereal). Water is big in our house mainly because those are the glasses the two youngest can reach. The food I cook for them usually has very little sugar so they don't seem to crave it. I take them to the grocery store with me (the big boys only really go in the summer, though). They participate in the planning and cooking of meals. They pick out the stuff they like and I get to teach them how to pick decent produce and meat. Also, we look at labels together. I tell them about good calories and bad calories and how to identify them and they basically have the principle that if there are a million words on the label they can't identify or pronounce then it probably isn't a good thing to put in their bodies. I think as they get older they are ready to listen to grown up food lessons. Just make them nutrition focused rather then weight loss focused. Also, we grow a garden every year and visit farmers' markets.

As far as fitness goes, I have one who totally eschews team sports (he's an artist, too). But he will go on hikes, ride his bike, or go for a walk with me. Luckily for him, he is quite slender. My little athelete plays everything that has a ball. We are actually trying to get him to find activities that he can do without a team so he has stuff for life (a problem both his dad and I have had to work out). You might want to look into rock climbing groups, fencing, kayaking or canoing, or even golf for your son. These are activities a little off the beaten path that might appeal to him. My older son perceives himself as a poor athelete so it works better for him to join activities which have a later starting point because the playing field is a bit more level (ie fencing vs. soccer).

Good luck and hang in there. Remember, it isn't a sprint but a marathon!

[FabulousFoodBabe]

Well, I'm pleased to report that we seem to be making some real progress.  [snip]

Still working on the activity issue, but at least we're making some headway with his food choices. 

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This is terrific news! One step at a time. I do believe that half the battle is the control issues with the food. Yeah, that dinner sounds a little different, but he made some great choices.

BTW, about the activity level: We have a treadmill, an elliptical trainer, and a TiVo in the basement. Most television -- and all Junk TV -- is viewed while in motion.

[chardgirl]

Hello, ME TOO. My daughter is 8 and my son is 10 (I'm currently 'blogging' for more info on my darlings) and they both have little bellies the doctor says we should watch. Thanks to all who have posted to this thread.

in our house there's no tv at all: but we do have a dvd player so they watch 1-2 movies on the weekend, that's it. But both kids prefer drawing & reading. I'm not a Judy Jock, but try to model fitness and drag them out to something active everyday. I wish it wasn't dragging!

also in our house we try to cook with them, let them make cookies once in a while and try to stay away from all high fructose corn syrup. (has anyone read the stuff Michael Pollan has written about the stuff? It's as though he's a science fiction writer....) I stopped the juice thing when they were toddlers because my son wouldn't stop drinking it. Now we occasionally do orange juice, especially if I can get them to help squeeze it!

Just like you: I only talk about being healthy, I leave off talking my own weightloss efforts around the kids, and I hope for the best. keep up the good work!

cg

I'm writing in sheer desperation today, with the hope that the supportive eGullet community I've seen helping others can help me as well.  Here's the scoop:  my darling son, age eight, had a routine physical last week.  He's big for his age (nearly as tall as his 11-year-old sister), but that doesn't explain his noticeable belly.  Our doctor is great--he had a nice conversation about healthy eating with my son, without mentioning the weight issue at all.  I asked a roundabout question, not wanting to mention it either--I said something like "Are there any health issues I should be concerned about?"  The doctor's reply was "Not right now, but if this doesn't resolve itself in a couple of years, then yes."   

On the one hand, I know a couple of years can make an enormous difference:  a friend's two sons were overweight as grade schoolers and are now, somehow, tall and thin men young men.  But I don't want to sit around and hope my son grows into his weight.  I want to do what I can to make sure he doesn't carry this problem with him throughout his life, as both his father and I have.

I also know I'm the parent here.  I know where I've fallen down on the job:  I was in grad school and insanely busy when my kids were toddlers, so Happy Meals and frozen dinners were part of the menu a little too often.  Still, as a baby, my son happily ate sweet potatoes until he turned himself yellow; now, I can't get him to touch them.  Left to his own devices (which he never is, of course), the boy would eat cheeseburgers, french fries and pizza at every meal.  On top of this, he's not an athletic kid; his interests lean toward reading and drawing.  I took him hiking yesterday, but getting him out of the house was no small feat. 

In the midst of all this, my daughter has somehow grown up to be a pathologically healthy eater and an amazing athlete.  (We're still not quite sure where she came from.)  I'm happy to make meals that please her, but this leaves my son without a thing on his plate that's appealing to him.  I don't want him to grow up thinking of healthy eating as a kind of deprivation; that's what led to the weight problem I'm finally in control of now.  But I also don't want to cater to his limited palate, especially when that would mean offering up unhealthy meals just for the sake of making him (briefly) happy.

How to get him to enjoy making healthier choices, so he'll do it more often?  That's the rub.   

Any and all advice is much appreciated.

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[jsolomon]

Hello, ME TOO. My daughter is 8 and my son is 10 (I'm currently 'blogging' for more info on my darlings) and they both have little bellies the doctor says we should watch. Thanks to all who have posted to this thread.

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Hmm... by the time I was 10, I was fixing fence (digging post-holes is pretty good exercise). How's the goat fence?

[chardgirl]

Hello, ME TOO. My daughter is 8 and my son is 10 (I'm currently 'blogging' for more info on my darlings) and they both have little bellies the doctor says we should watch. Thanks to all who have posted to this thread.

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Hmm... by the time I was 10, I was fixing fence (digging post-holes is pretty good exercise). How's the goat fence?

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Yes, the kids are active on the farm: hauling hay to the goats, carrying totes to and fro, playing with the baby goats, and helping make fences. We only started homeschooling a little less than a year ago, before that they were at school most of the time, and while their friends chose handball/soccer during outside times, both of my kids chose fantasy play (sitting) with friends under the tree! We're already making progress just having them at home... and they each have their own garden: 10 year old has his potato garden, that kept him busy this summer! and now 8 year old has her carrot garden.

I like the idea of making them dig post holes, we do have great fences since many neighbors have dogs.... and we also have lots of coyotes round these parts.

cg

[tryska]

other than the the limiting "treats" bit - i encourage you to get him active in soem sort of way. That will help him go far in maintaining his weight as an adult.

Also make sure he gets adequate protein to help him build muscles. I would definitely suggest less packaged foods and way more fresh fruits, vegetables and lean proteins, as well as healthy fats. The fat in his diet will help him produce testosterone, which is man's best friend when it comes ot keeping bodyfat low and mucle-mass high.

I liek the ideas of planting your own garden, and getting him into a martial arts class. Maybe even Tai Chi - it might appeal to his artsy side. or perhaps weight-lifting - it's a very solitary zen like activity, if you've the frame of mind for it.

[helenjp]

Pamjsa, thanks for the updates, it's good to hear what's working best!

Looking back at my boys' growth so far...8ish and 11ish seem to be periods when boys pack on weight before shooting up. When I inspect the girls in their classes, they seem to grow much more steadily!

I personally think you're on the right track with sugar/juice. My skinny husband and thinnish son2 like starchy sugary foods, but rarely eat too much of them, and never get fat. My son1 has verged on being overweight at times, but for him starchy, sugary foods are fodder, never his favorites. As a teen, his skin is immediately better if he eats wholegrain breads, sweet potatoes, beans etc in moderate amounts...so I assume that while some people can eat more sugar and starch without problems, he is not one of those people!

Son1 is becoming obsessed with computers, and it's harder to make him move - he hates team ball sports. I keep reminding him that school sports are *not* the only option for lifetime physical activity. He swims, but what he likes best of all is to get up early and go for a walk with me, monopolozing my poor battered ears with all his strange ideas as we walk!

Snacks - I agree with the suggestion to just not keep them in the house. We have crackers, cheese, and apples at this time of year. Although not easy in Japan, another favorite is hummus or a vegetable spread, and some vegetables/meat, along with any kind of wrap. For the kids, the ideal snack is one that can be eaten with one hand while enjoying a relaxing pre-homework read.

The kids choose and shop for (so that they understand what their choices cost!) and prepare (or help...) one dinner per week. They come up with things I'd forgotten I ever fed them. Table-top cooking is a great way to involve kids on busy nights when you don't want to cook at kid-pace. Try the okonomiyaki thread for good, hot cabbage and pork pancakes Japanese style!

[Marmish]

  The question now is whether we'll rotate menu-planning responsibility--since my daughter certainly isn't going to stand by while her brother dictates all the meals--or start trying to plan by committee.  I sense that won't be quite as appealing.

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You could

- let each pick 3 meals a week, Chef's Choice one night, and you choose the order since you cook

- let them rotate weeks

- let them alternate days

- make a "dinner jar" where they put in meal ideas on slips of paper, then you draw before going grocery shopping - everyone in the house can add ideas

- let them pick two nights each, the adults pick the remaining 3

- you choose main dish, they choose sides

- you, son and daughter each choose one part of the meal: main, veg, starch

- give them a theme to broaden their choices

ethnic food - Chinese, Italian, Mexican, etc.

recipes from a particular cook book

foods that are orange

food associated with a memory/trip/grandparent/friend/holiday

[pamjsa]

You could

- let each pick 3 meals a week, Chef's Choice one night, and you choose the order since you cook

- let them rotate weeks

- let them alternate days

- make a "dinner jar" where they put in meal ideas on slips of paper, then you draw before going grocery shopping - everyone in the house can add ideas

- let them pick two nights each, the adults pick the remaining 3

- you choose main dish, they choose sides

- you, son and daughter each choose one part of the meal: main, veg, starch

- give them a theme to broaden their choices

    ethnic food - Chinese, Italian, Mexican, etc.

    recipes from a particular cook book

    foods that are orange

    food associated with a memory/trip/grandparent/friend/holiday

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Marmish, those are excellent suggestions! I think the "dinner jar" would be a big hit. I'd thought about rotating weeks and/or days, or alternating who gets to choose the entree or sides, but I also like the theme idea.

(Interestingly, given your suggestions, we do what my husband now calls "the traditional orange meal" every year for Christmas! There's a long family story behind this, which perhaps I'll share on a more appropriate thread.)

Tonight's dinner: miniature pizzas, sliced pears and corn. My son's a cheese purist; we used lowfat mozzarella on the pizza and he was none the wiser. Again, not a combination I would have chosen--but better than last night's scrambled eggs and carrots.

[Marmish]

You could

- let each pick 3 meals a week, Chef's Choice one night, and you choose the order since you cook

- let them rotate weeks

- let them alternate days

- make a "dinner jar" where they put in meal ideas on slips of paper, then you draw before going grocery shopping - everyone in the house can add ideas

- let them pick two nights each, the adults pick the remaining 3

- you choose main dish, they choose sides

- you, son and daughter each choose one part of the meal: main, veg, starch

- give them a theme to broaden their choices

    ethnic food - Chinese, Italian, Mexican, etc.

    recipes from a particular cook book

    foods that are orange

    food associated with a memory/trip/grandparent/friend/holiday

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Marmish, those are excellent suggestions! I think the "dinner jar" would be a big hit. I'd thought about rotating weeks and/or days, or alternating who gets to choose the entree or sides, but I also like the theme idea.

(Interestingly, given your suggestions, we do what my husband now calls "the traditional orange meal" every year for Christmas! There's a long family story behind this, which perhaps I'll share on a more appropriate thread.)

Tonight's dinner: miniature pizzas, sliced pears and corn. My son's a cheese purist; we used lowfat mozzarella on the pizza and he was none the wiser. Again, not a combination I would have chosen--but better than last night's scrambled eggs and carrots.

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Thanks! I work with middle school kids, so figuring out lots of ways to group them and give them choices is key to cooperation and getting them invested in what you want them to do.

I'd like to hear about your "orange meal." When I suggested it, I was thinking about carrots and moving out to squash and other orange/yellow foods, increasing variety by decreasing choices.