Providence Clam Chowder

[ludja]

Just a general FYI, but "jonnycakes" is the traditional Rhode Island spelling I think.

Welcome to egullet, Mitchell!

[Mitchell]

I just joined the Society as a result of this thread and wanted to add my experiences.

Although no longer living in the Ocean State, I was born and spent my childhood there. In the late 1940's my mother taught me to make quahog chowder and stated that she had gotten the recipe from her grandmother.

It might not be "native," but certainly goes back to the late 1800's.

Real simple - chopped or coarsely minced quahogs, diced potatoes, onions, salt pork, salt and pepper. Quahog juice and water make the broth.

She didn't, but I add a bit of garlic.

There was always potatoes and onions in the house and she kept salt pork for her beans. My brothers and I would go the two blocks to Narragansett Bay and dig the clams. It cost next to nothing, so we had it often.

I was in my teens before I even tasted the pasty white stuff.

As to the red - I have no idea what was popular in Providence 10 years ago, but I do remember Rocky Point Park chowder. It was a bit different from the"Manhattan" clam chowder that is served from Connecticut south.

We had Portugese neighbors that made a bouillabaisse-type chowder with tomatoes. I think they may have used mussels instead of clams/quahogs.

In about 6 hours, I will be headed back to R.I. for the weekend and looking forward to having some "real" clear chowder.

Might even force myself to dispose of a few clam cakes and stuffies.

[Mitchell]

"However, a warm savory steam from the kitchen served to belie the apparently cheerless prospect before us. But when that smoking chowder came in, the mystery was delightfully explained. Oh, sweet friends! hearken to me. It was made of small juicy clams, scarcely bigger than hazel nuts, mixed with pounded ship biscuit, and salted pork cut up into little flakes; the whole enriched with butter, and plentifully seasoned with pepper and salt."

Herman Melville - MOBY DICK - 1851

Nary a tomato, nor dairy product mentioned!

[ludja]

"However, a warm savory steam from the kitchen served to belie the apparently cheerless prospect before us. But when that smoking chowder came in, the mystery was delightfully explained. Oh, sweet friends! hearken to me. It was made of small juicy clams, scarcely bigger than hazel nuts, mixed with pounded ship biscuit, and salted pork cut up into little flakes; the whole enriched with butter, and plentifully seasoned with pepper and salt."

Herman Melville - MOBY DICK - 1851

Nary a tomato, nor dairy product mentioned!

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I love that quote... (And it reminds me that it's time to reread Moby Dick)

[HungryChris]

In the interest of throwing a bit of rue into the plot here.....I have become a habitual customer of the West Greenwich F. D. (RI) twice a year chowder and clam cake fun raiser. On the weekends on or about Memorial Day and Veterans Day I manage to make my way there and buy several quarts of chowder (take out only).

Now this chowder appears red when you remove the cover and look down into it, but the red color is entirely on the surface and seems to be contained in the salt pork 'oil slick' on the surface. As you spoon through the chowder it is more of a clear broth type. I am pretty sure the color comes mainly from paprika, but some folks would call this a red chowder and some would not. I just call it good.

Cheers,

HC

Edited November 11, 2005 by HungryChris (log)

[Hest88]

I find this thread interesting because out here in CA I've been finding that many of the new upscale raw bar/seafood restaurants have been serving what I just thought of as a runny version of New England chowder. I had no idea that broth-based chowder was traditional in RI. I suspect these seafood restaurants think a broth-based clam chowder is more "refined" than a thick New England or a Manhattan.

[Mitchell]

In about 6 hours, I will be headed back to R.I. for the weekend and looking forward to having some "real" clear chowder.

Might even force myself to dispose of a few clam cakes and stuffies.

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Well, I'm back.

Four restaurants/diners that I visited had no clear chowder.

All had the white N.E. Clam Chowder.

One also had red.

I tried a bowl of scallop/corn chowder at the Wickford Diner.

It was more like bisque than a chowder - small pieces of potato, small pieces of scallop, a little corn. Not bad flavor, but unsubstantial.

I decided to forget the chowder and check out weiner joints.

If anyone is interested, I'll start a new thread on that.

[Chris Amirault]

menton1 already started a weiner thread here. But I'm curious about which restaurants you chose. I think that most places that have "chowder" get it from a can, and that means the thick white stuff. Do tell!

[menton1]

The plot thickens. A recent stop for squash pie at Gregg's, a Providence institution, has confirmed my previous thoughts about red chowder. Gregg's sells both, but they say the red outsells the white by about 2:1. The folks at the counter also said that the Providence environs were about the only place in New England where it is not heresy to serve red chowder.

Try asking for red chowder in Boston!! (Duck after you ask)

P.S. The squash pie at Gregg's is heavenly...

[ludja]

Growing up in CT, it was always "red" for Manhattan clam chowder and 'clear", i.e. no milk or tomatoes for Rhode Island Clam Chowder. My father growing up in CT said this was the norm as well back then.

I wonder why Rhode Island style is even avaliable in Connecticut?

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Not sure what you mean in your question... (unless I'm being dense and missing a joke!)

I've seen all chowder styles available in CT, but "New England" style is the most common, followed by Manhanttan and then Rhode Island.

Also, I grew in central CT and don't really know as well what is or would have been traditional re: chowders in, say far southern or eastern CT. Those areas could well be influenced more by their neighbors, namely, Rhode Island to the east and NY to the south.

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Another tidbit of information...

Here is a recipe for "Noank Clear Clam Chowder" in this link provided by Jason Perlow in this post.

Here is quote from the header of the recipe which is from, The New England Clam Shack Cookbook: Favorite Recipes from Clam Shacks, Lobster Pounds & Chowder Houses by Brooke Dojny

This clear chowder (broth only, no milk or cream) is typical of the style that has been cooked up for generations along a particular narrow stretch of New England coastline from eastern Connecticut through western Rhode Island.  The Seahorse Tavern, in Noank, near Mystic, CT serves is proudly, almost as a badge of honor…

This *is* precisely the area of CT and Rhode Island that my dad was sailing in and serving in a Naval base in the 50's/early 60's, so this may explain his strong memories of the clear "Rhode Island" version of the chowder.

It is interesting that regional variations could persist as long they did in such a small area of New England.

Edited March 4, 2006 by ludja (log)

[ludja]

Here also is an excerpt from the Sterns, “Roadfood”: click

“Abbott’s is renowned for chowder and lobsters, both of which have defined seafood excellence in eastern Connecticut for decades. The chowder is a style unique to southern New England shores: steel-gray, briny, full of clam flavor, plenty of clam meat, and a handful of potatoes; and the lobsters are steamed to perfection.”

(Abbot's refers to: Abbott’s Lobster In the Rough, 117 Pearl St., Noank, CT)

[menton1]

Yes, as I've indicated and discovered since starting this thread, in New England, Red chowder is only found in Providence. Outside of Providence, Red Chowder is heresy. Hence the title of this thread.

[Chantilly Bob]

Yes, as I've indicated and discovered since starting this thread, in New England, Red chowder is only found in Providence.  Outside of Providence, Red Chowder is heresy.  Hence the title of this thread.

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I just found this thread (as well as the one on weiners), and once again Rhode Island cuisine makes for some interesting discussions.

I am a Providence native (born at Lying-In Hospital, now Women's and Infants). Here is what I can tell everyone. Of course, things could be different today.

Red chowder could always be found at restaurants in Providence, BUT as best I can remember that style was known as Manhattan clam chowder. This stuff has no particular association with Rhode Island. In fact, its closest relative is Maryland Crab Soup, with a more distant relative being conch chowder as found in south Florida. In other words, it's just soup.

We never considered white chowder with a paprika sheen on top or even a few tomatoes thrown in to be red chowder.

The dominant chowder in Providence was always New England clam chowder (i.e. Boston style), which often resembles library paste. A non-gloopy New England chowder can be a thing of beauty. Legal Seafoods' is too thick for me -- it's tasty, but a bowl fills me up now.

Rhode Island clear chowder was pretty much limited to the South County area -- South County being what we call the southern part of RI near the shore: Kingston, Narragansett, etc. I'm not surprised the same thing can be found along the Connecticut coast as well. This is my favorite.

[menton1]

The dominant chowder in Providence was always New England clam chowder (i.e. Boston style), which often resembles library paste

Wow, so many disparate opinions from RI natives! I wanted to add, that the plot thickens (not the chowder ) I recently had the opportunity to go up to Cranston, and meet my friend's large family. (Unfortunately, it was after a funeral). I brought up the red-chowder discussion. Just about all of them insisted that red is the chowder of record in and around Providence, but nowhere else in New England.

I think I mentioned previously that employees at Gregg's, a popular chain resto in Providence with 4 or 5 locations, said that red outsells the white by about 2:1 there.

And Legal Seafoods, right on their menu, calls their red chowder "Providence Clam Chowder".

I guess even the Providence natives are never going to agree on this "color" issue!!

[lambretta76]

menton1 - I think you're correct - around Providence, the chowder is most likely the red chowder. I asked several friends, who hail from Bristol, Little Compton, and Kingston, and they all supported the clam broth "clear" chowder theory, while a friend from Pawtucket supported the red chowder. So I guess Rhode Island Clam Chowder = clam broth/"clear", while Providence Clam Chowder = red chowder. Doesn't really matter much to me as I love caldo verde and stick to that when I'm in the RI area. (Unless someone makes a Green Clam Chowder.)

[Chris Amirault]

The Boston Globe again takes the clear chowder position in this article:

This small state claims its own version of fresh-from-the-sea clam chowder. But Rhode Islanders aren't in agreement about how it should be made. That is, they're not as clear as the broth that defines their specialty.

They do agree on one thing: It bears little resemblance to the thick, creamy bowls we might call clam chowder. The Rhode Island version is a thin, clear broth with freshly chopped sea clams and potatoes, some butter, and simple seasonings. After that, it's open season. Some chowders are made with milk or half-and-half. Other chowder makers ladle clear broth into bowls but present milk or half-and-half in a little pitcher on the side. Those who do say it's in deference to the many tourists who expect a chowder to be white.

The recipe lists no tomatoes or dairy.

[HungryChris]

In an effort to breathe new life into this thread here are some clamcake and chowder pictures from the West Greenwich, Rhode Island Fire Dept. Twice a year, they sell them out of the fire house. Attendance is always good, as is the food.

 

The clamcakes (fritters) are quite good and we eat them while they are hot in the car. Deb likes a dipping sauce, which they do not offer. I used to make, and bring, tartar sauce, but yesterday she requested lemon and garlic aioli which I made last night because it benefits from a night in the fridge. We got a half dozen fritters which are about golf ball size (I have already eaten one).

 

....and of course the aioli:

I got 4 quarts of the red chowder, which I brought home. I have never had a clam chowder I didn't like and this was no exception. I do like to add a bit of Crystal hot sauce and garlic, which I did after taking this picture.

HC

 

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2016 by HungryChris (log)