pecans, persimmons and squirrels

[highchef]

I have a dozen pecan trees and a beautiful persimmon that are all loaded and almost ready. The squirrels have been tearing into the still green pecans and getting po'd when they bite into them, and throw them onto my metal roof on the garage. My son thought we were being shot at when this started a couple of weeks ago. It brought back something an old neighbor lady of ours used to say..that when the squirrels go after the pecans too early it meant we were going to have a really bad winter. I don't know if that's true, but dh is ready with a bb gun and is going to get at them soon. I've also heard (from another old guy) that squirrels have to get hit by a freeze before they can be safely eaten. Since I subscribe to the adage that we should eat what we kill (I do draw the line at snakes!), I wonder if anyone else knows if this is true. I may make an exception in this case, cause the way they're going we arn't going to have any pecans left. This began right before Katina by the way, maybe they got freaked out by some barametric pressure change.

They have not hit the persimmons yet, but they're ripening fast. They tend to ripen pretty much at the same time, so I pick them all at once. If you have any recipes for them, please let me know. I have pudding and cookie and bread, and one for a chutney that won't work with these because they arn't the firm type. When they ripen, they're very soft. I've finally convinced the boys to stop lobbing them at each other (made a mess, but they had a blast until I caught them), so I may actually be able to do something large with them..like jelly for Christmas gifts. There isn't a lot of info out there on persimmon preserves and the like and I'd really like some tried and true recipes. Has anyone ever combined persimmons with cranberries for a relish? I'll experiment when they ripen up, but if you have any ideas, please share. Thanks in advance.

If I ever get my digital camera back I'll try to catch one in the act of carrying a persimmon up the fence. The things weigh almost as much as the squirrels, but somehow they do it! I guess it's God's way of at least letting me get a laugh from the situation!

[Smithy]

I am amazed at the way squirrels can carry things. We used to put a cob of ear corn on a spike on a spruce tree for the squirrels to eat. One morning the cob was gone - not stripped of the corn, just gone. We later found it waaay up, at second-floor level, and waaay out on a flat frond of the spruce. After that we quit cursing the bears and deer for stealing the corn, and started watching more closely, and had the privilege (more than once) of watching a red squirrel wrestle a corn cob at least twice its size off the nail, and then up the tree, sometimes by way of the ground because of a fall first. Amazing. Eventually we got tired of losing the cobs (we use them for fire starters) and switched to a deck screw for the cob mount. The squirrels haven't figured out how to spin the cobs off, so they have to eat there.

I'm trying to imagine what difference a freeze would make to the safety of handling or eating a warm-blooded animal after you kill it. I don't remember my grandfather ever mentioning that, but then he didn't have to do much squirrel hunting after, oh, about age 13. I'm also wondering what squirrels might carry, anyway. Tularemia? In that case, maybe when the ticks and fleas die off for the year the risk of infection is reduced. I'm speculating, though.

Edited because I finally remembered the name of that disease.

Edited September 16, 2005 by Smithy (log)

[robyn]

Lyme disease ticks (which live on squirrels - among other animals) are most active in the spring and summer. So perhaps that's the reasoning behind waiting for the winter. Apart from lyme disease - and tularemia - and perhaps some other things - there's also a risk of getting "mad cow disease" from eating squirrel brains or other parts of their neurological systems. Frankly - I don't think it's worth the risk in terms of handling them or eating them. Robyn

[highchef]

Rest assured, squirrel brains were not even a remote thought in MY brain!

But I know plenty of people, granted mostly older, who'd love to have the meat. I'd make a stew maybe for dh, or gumbo, but that'd be it. I'm just looking to see if it's safe. It'll be a moot point soon though, cause I think he's just about had it with them. I don't want to cook or give away 'bad' meat. I'm gonna play this one safe. If they start on the persimmons before they're ripe though, I'll be shooting them myself!

If this offends anyone, in our defense...they are everywhere and cause no end of damage to cables and produce. I was hoping the local cat population would help out, but I think they are seriously outnumbered.

[sanrensho]

There's a little bit of information about persimmon jam in this thread in the Japan forum.

Also, there was a thread a week or two ago about persimmons on the cooking forum. As I mentioned in that thread, you can peel and hang the persimmons to eat dried in the traditional Japanese way. After shooting all of those squirrels, of course.

[mizducky]

The classic 1970s-era edition of Joy of Cooking contains some pretty detailed information about preparing squirrel for eating. I was always kind of amused at their illustrated directions for how to skin the little critters. I think later editions pretty much scrapped the entire chapter on hunting/game meats--alas, for it was one of the most colorful chapters of the older editions. But if you don't have a copy of the older version, I bet you could find it in a good used book store.

[highchef]

The classic 1970s-era edition of Joy of Cooking contains some pretty detailed information about preparing squirrel for eating. I was always kind of amused at their illustrated directions for how to skin the little critters. I think later editions pretty much scrapped the entire chapter on hunting/game meats--alas, for it was one of the most colorful chapters of the older editions. But if you don't have a copy of the older version, I bet you could find it in a good used book store.

←

Ducky, you are a genius. My mom had a copy and it's still at her house. Don't think my brother needs it. Thanks for the referral!

[robyn]

Rest assured, squirrel brains were not even a remote thought in MY brain!

But I know plenty of people, granted mostly older, who'd love to have the meat. I'd make a stew maybe for dh, or gumbo, but that'd be it. I'm just looking to see if it's safe. It'll be a moot point soon though, cause I think he's just about had it with them. I don't want to cook or give away 'bad' meat. I'm gonna play this one safe. If they start on the persimmons before they're ripe though, I'll be shooting them myself!

If this offends anyone, in our defense...they are everywhere and cause no end of damage to cables and produce.  I was hoping the local cat population would help out, but I think they are seriously outnumbered.

←

I think handling the squirrels can cause as many problems as eating them. So I wouldn't go near 'em. Robyn

[highchef]

There's a little bit of information about persimmon jam in this thread in the Japan forum.

Also, there was a thread a week or two ago about persimmons on the cooking forum. As I mentioned in that thread, you can peel and hang the persimmons to eat dried in the traditional Japanese way. After shooting all of those squirrels, of course.

←

These are not the firm persimmons. They get quite mushy when ripe and are impossible to eat before 'done'. Think pucker, then triple the reaction. If I tried to hang them, I'm afraid they'd simply fall apart. This is the reason the chutney recipe didn't work, they would not stay in any form at all, just went to mush. They are called 'japanese persimmons' according to everyone around here, but I'm beginning to suspect that that's a misnomer. Thanks for the suggestion to check the other link. I shall do that.

[russ parsons]

are these true persimmons? there is a native american persimmon that is different. if they're true persimmons,they are the hachiya variety, from your description. one of my favorite fall desserts is to get them really ripe, then cut them from tip to calyx in quarters, leaving it attached at the calyx. open it out in a bowl like a flower, then spoon in some cointreau-flavored whipped cream.

[sanrensho]

It sounds like you have the Hachiya persimmons that taper at the bottom. The other persimmons I'm familiar with are the crisper, rounder Fuyu variety (also a Japanese variety).

Here's the other thread that I was referring to.

Also, FWIW, I've read and heard that it is possible to contract bubonic plague from squirrels. Not sure if this applies to the type of squirrels you are dealing with, as I'm well out of state.

http://www.nps.gov/public_health/inter/inf...s/fs_plague.htm

[highchef]

ok, squirrels are not on the menu. ever. period. I am totally freaked. However they will be dead meat soon, or at least a good deal of them.

The persimmons. Russ, the whipped cream thing sounds wonderful, and yes, I think you and sanrencho are right. I do think they are the hachiya. I am familiar with the native type. We have them on the property in arkansas. they are tiny, compared to these. These are big enough to do something with and the tree is loaded. I froze a few last year and I could have easily killed someone with one had I needed to. Now that I have a name, recipes should be easier to find. Thanks.

[sparrowgrass]

Squirrel is my favorite wild meat. A young one can be fried like chicken, and the older ones make wonderful, flavorful stew or potpie. They are hard to skin--very tough skin that sticks tight to the body.

Squirrel season here starts in early summer, and I have never heard anyone say that you have to wait til after frost. Hunting is easier when the leaves fall, however. (Rabbit season starts in the early winter. Rabbits carry tularemia, and the cold weather kills off the sick ones. At least, that is the theory.)

Bubonic plague is found in the West, not Louisiana. You will have to ask local health folks if Lyme disease is a problem in your area, but making sure ticks don't stay attached is the best way to avoid that problem. They have to be firmly embedded, which takes several hours, before they can transmit the disease.

edited because of poor reading skills.

Edited September 17, 2005 by sparrowgrass (log)

[highchef]

Squirrel is my favorite wild meat.  A young one can be fried like chicken, and the older ones make wonderful, flavorful stew or potpie.  They are hard to skin--very tough skin that sticks tight to the body.

Squirrel season here starts in early summer, and I have never heard anyone say that you have to wait til after frost.  Hunting is easier when the leaves fall, however.  (Rabbit season starts in the early winter.  Rabbits carry tularemia, and the cold weather kills off the sick ones.  At least, that is the theory.)

Bubonic plague is found in the West, not Louisiana.  You will have to ask local health folks if Lyme disease is a problem in your area, but making sure ticks don't stay attached is the best way to avoid that problem.  They have to be firmly embedded, which takes several hours, before they can transmit the disease.

edited because of poor reading skills.

←

I've often heard that the biggest concern of squirrel hunters is looking up and missing the snakes at their feet. This is not a problem here. I am issueing an invitation to anyone who thinks they can do it quietly enough not to bring on law inforcement, to come and help themselves. I am serious. That's the reason for the bb gun. quiet. There's also some sort of german pellet gun I saw smuggled upstairs the other day, but so far no sign of tails. I'm gonna hold off on any cooking of said squirrels till after we get some cold weather. Which, since it was 98 yesterday may well be in Jan. They are not off the hook, just out of the pot for the time being.

Since I am the only woman among 4 guys, I do not take out the trash and I do not skin anything. However.....they actually all know how to skin a rabbitt, so this wont be tooo hard. Thanks

[bavila]

When I was home in Lafayette this Spring I looked through my grandmother's old recipes. Included were some newspaper recipe clippings for squirrel. I think they were from (what is now) the Daily Advertiser. And probably any older cookbook from the area would have some recipes.

As for persimmons, I like mine super ripe and unadulterated. Mmmmm....

[Smithy]

This morning I opened up the latest issue (October, 2005, for future readers) of Saveur magazine. Lo and behold, the "Memories" article is about squirrel hunting and stew in Hopkins County, Texas. You must be in synch with the cosmos, highchef.

Side note, not to argue but to boost some information: the links I found earlier about tularemia say it isn't confined to rabbits (although they're what I always associate it with) but can also be carried by assorted rodents, including squirrels. They also say the disease is rare these days, but I didn't find anything about its geographic distribution. I can send you a link for the handling safety side of it, if you want. It seems as though every concern raised so far (except Robyn's concern about mad cow - I hadn't heard that one before) has to do with the handling rather than the meat safety. If your skinning guys take the usual precautions and make sure the skinned/cleaned animals seem healthy (aside from lead poisoning ) I'd think the meat would be as safe enough. I'm glad sparrowgrass weighed in with some firsthand information.

[edsel]

It seems as though every concern raised so far (except Robyn's concern about mad cow - I hadn't heard that one before) has to do with the handling rather than the meat safety.  If your skinning guys take the usual precautions and make sure the skinned/cleaned animals seem healthy (aside from lead poisoning ) I'd think the meat would be as safe enough.  I'm glad sparrowgrass weighed in with some firsthand information.←

I have to admit to being a bit squeamish about eating squirrel, and any kind of brains sounds a bit scary to me. I believe that rabbit brains and lamb brains have been served at el bulli, so i suppose that were I so lucky as to dine there I'd take a deep breath and eat them (and probably enjoy them).

Robyn - Where the heck did you hear that squirrels can get Mad Cow Disease? That's a new one to me. Doesn't the "B" in "BSE" stand for Bovine? Maybe there's some sort of related disease that infects rodents....

[robyn]

It's actually Creutzfeld-Jakob disease (the name of the disease in humans). And a neurologist friend of ours whose research specialty is dementia discovered the correlation by accident in the course of his research. You can read about his findings in articles like this. Robyn

Edited September 18, 2005 by robyn (log)

[sparrowgrass]

Highchef, squirrels are MUCH harder to skin than rabbits. You can skin a wild rabbit with your bare hands--the skin is thin and fragile.

Squirrels have tight, very strong skin. One way to skin them is to lay the squirrel belly down. Using a good sharp knife, cut at the base of the tail, NOT all the way around. Continue this cut down the outside of the squirrel's back legs. Stand on the tail, and grab that cut skin. Pull hard--the skin will come off the squirrel's back and right over his head. Cut his tail, his head and his little feeties off. Gut him like a rabbit.

If you plunk it right into a bucket of water, the stray hair will be easier to get off.

The Evil One (the ex) used to throw the squirrels away if the tail broke--too hard to skin any other way.

I disjoint them like a chicken. The meat on an old squirrel will feel hard--and unless you stew them, will be too chewy to eat. Young squirrels feel soft, and can be fried like chicken.

If you are in town and not allowed to shoot, try a live trap. Bait it with peanuts (or pecans).

[racheld]

I've been away for the weekend. There's always something going on when I return, and this time, it was mad-squirrel disease, brain eaters, and lethal persimmons. All within the confines of one thread. Amazing.

Never could even WATCH when my Dad fed a tiny squirrel brain to my baby sister. She'd open her wee mouth, engulf the delicacy, and grin as she chomped it down. Not me---I could barely stand to be at the table, and fled or covered my eyes when Daddy extracted the tongue with a cocktail fork and ate it. That's just nasty. Those yellow little teeth, and I always wondered how that tiny mouth was washed clean enough to eat its contents. Definite EEEWWW moments.

And I've cooked many a HEADLESS squirrel myself, as my sons were always bringing home game of one sort or the other. The standard method is a long simmer or braise in plain salted water, then a quick dip into seasoned flour and pan frying. Then almost all the frying grease is dumped out, a couple of tablespoons of the seasoned flour made into a nut-brown roux, and the above broth poured in to roil up and smooth out into a nice brown gravy. Though I did not eat that either. I married into a huntin'-fishin' family, and learned to cook anything the guys brought home.

So the toxin must be a chemical, not a bacterium---else it would be killed off by such thorough cooking, though maybe with just the frying step, and the heat does not completely cook the well-enclosed little brain.

What in the (*&^ am I doing discussing this before breakfast???!!!

But persimmons, now, are a different story...they are one of the most beautiful creations ever to hang on a tree. The smooth heavy golden globes catch the light on their skins like no other fruit, and the gentle haze of the velvet only enhances the shine. We had one tree just out from the house, and before the leaves fell, the fruit winked through the green like so many tangerine lanterns; after leaf-fall the hanging fruit was a sharp contrast to the dark, gnarled limbs, like an immense twisted bonsai clustered with jewels. Though I saw this tree later in my life, it was exactly what my childhood imagination had conjured up when Aladdin walked into that cave of treasures.

I used to stand out looking at it as the sun set, my twin trails of breath wisping out into the first-frost-coming air, and that stark tree against the rose and gold of the deepening twilight is seared into my memory as one of my most valued picture-memories. And I sometimes imagined that the translucent golden fruit had a glow of its own, shining there on that black outline of a tree. I'd gaze at it til the light faded and the color paled and darkened with the coming of night.

And there was always a bowl of the beautiful bounty on our dining-room table, a still-life in shades of orange and deepest yellows and the most indescribable peachy gold. Just breathtakingly beautiful for the few days of their prime, voluptuously resting, then growing weary with the sag of time.

I miss those beautiful things, though I could not stand to eat one...sweet, but like flavorless Jello. Just beauty is sometimes enough.

edited for infinitives and stuff

Edited September 19, 2005 by racheld (log)

[highchef]

That, Racheld, is beautiful....

I'm glad my tree is sitting in the front yard where I see it everytime I look out. People stop and get out of cars too check it out, most have never seen anything like it and the rest have memories like yours. Thanks. Patty