Doug Psaltis

[timothycdavis]

Christ-amighty!

Of COURSE he's trying to make money with the book -- all authors do, even Rimbaud and Shakespeare did.

Of COURSE publicity doesn't hurt when you're opening a new resturant. See the old Muhammad Ali axiom.

Of COURSE he's talented -- you don't get into the kitchens he did without some serious, er, chops.

As for the accusations: who cares about a spotless walk-in? As long as the food is fresh, I'm smart enough to realize that the walk-in's not always going to be spotless. Ever look at yr own kitchens?

As for slaps or anything else, who cares? I've been in newsrooms where a punch was thrown. I was one of the throwers, in fact. (I missed.) So there was a chair thrown. Does this make a man not a great chef? Was Ty Cobb not a great hitter, even though (it is said) he was a reprehensible a-hole?

Psaltis made some money, and a name for himself. The book (I'm about 3/4 way through) seems relatively tame, overall. I don't see it as a slash-n-burn slander job. Surely Psaltis would have known any undocumented incidents could (and would, and have, depending on who you believe) bite him in the ass.

I'm sure he could been a bit-more self-deprecating, a la Anthony Bourdain. To that end, however, I'd bet a few of Tony's old co-workers might disagree with some of the representations in Kitchen Confidential.

I once worked with a reasonably well-known author, someone who everyone talked about as being one of the real peaches of the literary world. I found him to be a real jerk. Is my version somehow less valid because I'm not as well known?

Like all public figures, Psaltis will be judged in the court of public opinion. He already has, no doubt. That said, I tend to believe him, or at least his intent. He has a lot more to lose than Keller or Ducasse any day of the week.

[sammy]

He has a lot more to lose than Keller or Ducasse any day of the week.

How do you figure?

As for slaps or anything else, who cares? I've been in newsrooms where a punch was thrown. I was one of the throwers, in fact. (I missed.) So there was a chair thrown. Does this make a man not a great chef? Was Ty Cobb not a great hitter, even though (it is said) he was a reprehensible a-hole?

You're missing the point. If he actually wrote about the incident in the book and said he didn't leave TFL on his own terms, we wouldn't be having this discussion. It all has to do with his credibility, not whether or not he actually hit anyone.

To me it is simple. If he didn't come clean in the book about the circumstances surrounding his leaving TFL, everything else he says is automatically suspect.

Edited October 6, 2005 by sammy (log)

[Michael Ruhlman]

If he actually wrote about the incident in the book and said he didn't leave TFL on his own terms, we wouldn't be having this discussion. It all has to do with his credibility, not whether or not he actually hit anyone.

To me it is simple. If he didn't come clean in the book about the circumstances surrounding his leaving TFL, everything else he says is automatically suspect.

←

this is the only relevant point in this too-long conversation.

[sizzleteeth]

If he actually wrote about the incident in the book and said he didn't leave TFL on his own terms, we wouldn't be having this discussion. It all has to do with his credibility, not whether or not he actually hit anyone.

To me it is simple. If he didn't come clean in the book about the circumstances surrounding his leaving TFL, everything else he says is automatically suspect.

←

this is the only relevant point in this too-long conversation.

←

If that is the case, then as stated by his employer who cited a confidentiality agreement as the reason for not being able to discuss those items - one can deduce that he is also bound by the terms of that agreement which would preclude his ability to disclose such a thing.

That employer also stated that he was "there during a difficult time" - which translates to "shit was fucked up" or at least "Things were not in the normal order they would have been in so it is possible that things existed at that time that no longer exist."

These two items are the only pieces of evidence I see regarding that particular issue.

[Michael Ruhlman]

he's not bound by anything, as he's already shown.

[sizzleteeth]

he's not bound by anything, as he's already shown.

←

If it is a standard agreement then it most likely covers trade secrets and terms of employment/departure.

I doubt that the state of order of walk-ins is covered.

Though what the fuck do I know?

I don't own a restaraunt and I'm not a published author.

Edit:

Being bound by honor isn't a legal matter - whether I agree with you or not.

Edited October 6, 2005 by sizzleteeth (log)

[robert40]

If he was also bound by the agreement would it not have been wiser to omit the whole FL chapter? Or was the better choice to change history, publish a book, and reap the rewards of the public's money?

I am convinced there are those here who feel as though Doug boosted his credibility by omitting the hand slapping incident in the book and disclosing it here after he sensed the jig was up.

Personally this thread was a blessing for Doug. If I had not started this thread I'm sure the book sales would have been nowhere near where they are now.

[sizzleteeth]

If he was also bound by the agreement would it not have been wiser to omit the whole FL chapter? Or was the better choice to change history, publish a book, and reap the rewards of the public's money?

I am convinced there are those here who feel as though Doug boosted his credibility by omitting the hand slapping incident in the book and disclosing it here after he sensed the jig was up.

Personally this thread was a blessing for Doug. If I had not started this thread I'm sure the book sales would have been nowhere near where they are now.

←

Mind has to be made up one way or the other...

Do you want full disclosure of everything that can legally be disclosed?

Or do you want cherry picked omissions to preserve the honor of the brotherhood?

Makes more sense now why there aren't any straight answers coming from anyone

that was there to witness (edit: the reason for his departure) - they are all under non-disclosure agreements.

Edited October 6, 2005 by sizzleteeth (log)

[timothycdavis]

He has a lot more to lose than Keller or Ducasse any day of the week.

How do you figure?

How do I figure? Do you think either of the above gentlemen have lost even one whit of business because of this?

As for slaps or anything else, who cares? I've been in newsrooms where a punch was thrown. I was one of the throwers, in fact. (I missed.) So there was a chair thrown. Does this make a man not a great chef? Was Ty Cobb not a great hitter, even though (it is said) he was a reprehensible a-hole?

You're missing the point. If he actually wrote about the incident in the book and said he didn't leave TFL on his own terms, we wouldn't be having this discussion. It all has to do with his credibility, not whether or not he actually hit anyone.

To me it is simple. If he didn't come clean in the book about the circumstances surrounding his leaving TFL, everything else he says is automatically suspect.

←

Like with the Canseco steroid tell-all, if the man's lying, why hasn't anyone sued? It's important to remember that this is a memoir, a bit of autobiography (or biography -- who knows how much his brother wrote). He's entitled to present it all the way he wants, so long as it's not slanderous. And it wouldn't appear to be, since no one's going after him. Is his (rather effusive) praise of Keller dubious as well?

I go back to something Bourdain said way back when: "It's his story as he saw it and felt it. It's hardly a definitive account. Undoubtedly, there will be other versions of Psaltis' Last Day at the Laundry--and the infamous Bay of Pigs at Mix and we can mull those over as well. In the classic Japanese film Rashomon, ALL the stories were interesting. Which version (or combination of versions) one chooses to believe are half the fun."

Also: Who gives a shit if anyone threw a chair/didn't get recognized/etc? It happens all the time. These chefs are men, not gods!

Again and again: hasn't been refuted except in the media. And I work in the media, but all the reportage on this is as much hearsay as Psaltis' book is claimed to be by many on this (great) website.

Out,

TCD

[slkinsey]

If he actually wrote about the incident in the book and said he didn't leave TFL on his own terms, we wouldn't be having this discussion. It all has to do with his credibility, not whether or not he actually hit anyone.

To me it is simple. If he didn't come clean in the book about the circumstances surrounding his leaving TFL, everything else he says is automatically suspect.

this is the only relevant point in this too-long conversation.

I'm curious about something, and I'm not asking this to be snarky, I'm really curious:

Do you suppose that your friend Tony Bourdain hasn't left some unflattering things about himself out of his books, or indeed any items that others familiar with the various situations described might consider significant omissions?

Do you suppose that everything in Ruch Reichl's however many memoirs she has now written is factually accurate, and that nothing others might find significant was omitted and that nothing was made up out of whole cloth?

Since I hardly see how the answer could be "yes," given human nature, do you feel that everything else they say is automatically suspect? Or do you think your thoughts on this particular item may be especially strong due to the fact that the other party is Keller?

This isn't advocacy for Psaltis or his book, I just have to say that I find some reactions curious given, for example, Bourdain's notorious slagging of other chefs -- in particular those who could be seen as competition in the field of food-related television (something I should point out I don't particularly have a problem with).

I'm not saying this to impugn either AB or RR, both of whom are writers whose work I enjoy. But more to make a point precisely because most of us do like them. In a side-related note, I wonder if it were the case that Psaltis were a bit more self-deprecating and if his youthful arrogance didn't come through so clearly, if people would care about this a bit less. Certainly one of AB's strengths has always been to seem like a nice guy while at the same time saying that Rocco DiSpirto is "the most despised chef in New York" or that there are "few New York restaurateurs more loathsome" than Jeffrey Chodorow and he hated him within three seconds of their first meeting.

[timothycdavis]

If he actually wrote about the incident in the book and said he didn't leave TFL on his own terms, we wouldn't be having this discussion. It all has to do with his credibility, not whether or not he actually hit anyone.

To me it is simple. If he didn't come clean in the book about the circumstances surrounding his leaving TFL, everything else he says is automatically suspect.

this is the only relevant point in this too-long conversation.

I'm curious about something, and I'm not asking this to be snarky, I'm really curious:

Do you suppose that your friend Tony Bourdain hasn't left some unflattering things about himself out of his books, or indeed any items that others familiar with the various situations described might consider significant omissions?

Do you suppose that everything in Ruch Reichl's however many memoirs she has now written is factually accurate, and that nothing others might find significant was omitted and that nothing was made up out of whole cloth?

Since I hardly see how the answer could be "yes," given human nature, do you feel that everything else they say is automatically suspect? Or do you think your thoughts on this particular item may be especially strong due to the fact that the other party is Keller?

This isn't advocacy for Psaltis or his book, I just have to say that I find some reactions curious given, for example, Bourdain's notorious slagging of other chefs -- in particular those who could be seen as competition in the field of food-related television (something I should point out I don't particularly have a problem with).

←

Emeril and I applaud you.

'bam,'

TCD

[Daddy-A]

I'm curious ...

Who's gone out and bought "Seasoning of a Chef" as a direct result of reading this thread? Just a quick show of hands please?

The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about. - Oscar Wilde

A.

[robert40]

I'm curious ...

Who's gone out and bought "Seasoning of a Chef" as a direct result of reading this thread?  Just a quick show of hands please?

The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about. - Oscar Wilde

A.

←

Now why would you go and have to ask something like that.

[VeryApe77]

I'm curious ...

Who's gone out and bought "Seasoning of a Chef" as a direct result of reading this thread?  Just a quick show of hands please?

The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about. - Oscar Wilde

A.

←

I have read the book but didn't buy it. I found myself in downtown Chicago with a couple of hours to kill (my better half was doing some shopping with visiting family members) so I read it in Borders. I started reading to see if I was interested in purchasing it. After a few chapters I realized that I had no interest in owning the book whatsoever, but figured I may as well finish it seeing as I had the time...

[sizzleteeth]

Do you suppose that your friend Tony Bourdain hasn't left some unflattering things about himself out of his books, or indeed any items that others familiar with the various situations described might consider significant omissions? 

The question wasn't asked of me but I have an opinion to offer on this, my last words here.

Bourdain is unique in that he is amorphous.

He's simultaneously associated with royalty, commoners and criminals at the same, which means he can be on any side or all sides without much detriment to his support from the collective whole.

There's not much you could say about him that he wouldn't say about himself and laugh, trying to cut him is like trying to cut water.

The near unimpeachable position that he described earlier upthread.

If you'll turn the knife on yourself of your own free will then threats on your life

aren't going to do much good.

If you call someone a fuck but admit that you are also a fuck, just maybe in a different way - then what can be said?

That being said - even though I live only a few blocks from the Merchandise Mart,

I still wouldn't pay 50 bucks to lay eyes on him, unless he's real pretty under all that makeup.

As was said earlier - and I haven't and won't read the book - people say

that the man paints himself without fault - I dunno if that's true or not.

But I read a quote today that reminds me of the situation:

"The problem with people who have no vices is that generally you can be pretty sure they're going to have some pretty annoying virtues."

[chefboy24]

i read the book as a result of this thread.

whether he got fired from the french laundry or whether the job wasn't a right match and he decided to leave (i personally believe the latter) is irrelevant. the 200 some page book is about all of the places he's worked, his journey, and there is some interesting stuff about how very succesful chefs run their restaurants. it is not well written, it is a collection of some simply flat-out interesting facts about some great chefs. it was very easy for me to read the book in about 2 or 3 sittings, i loved the information. i wish he wrote like bourgess or sedaris (a more talented greek) or bourdain (or even dan barber), but he doesn't.

dan barber stealing recipes? was he a sous chef or a co chef or what? who knows? who cares? personally if that time out magazine refered to him as sous chef, and he described the opening very well, and the whole process of the concept at peacock alley......and now he's being described as just a line cook, i think i'd rather take psaltis's side of the story. he was probably fired. but who cares, i liked the dirt on dan barber.

the dirt he was talking.....if anyone bothered to read the book....... was that dan barber was always looking at the french laundry cookbook and the el bulli 92-98 (or 92-96 or whatever) book in catalan and pulling stuff out of there and using a lot of those recipes (or variations on) when blue hill was starting. This was in 1999! (because he says the laundry book had recently come out). lots of chefs do this. lots of B-list chefs have the laundry cookbook in their office at the restaurant. chef's who are starting out and are trying to form their own cuisine lift recipes from cookbooks.

dan barber eventually after 3-4 years got really talented and original and is enjoying his deserved success. more proof that batali hasn't read the book. I'm sure barber's recipes are original NOW, but when they were at blue hill and he was pulling shit from the el bulli book, they were less original, 6 years ago.

how many fucking menu's in manhattan have tomato water on them in some form? i rest my case.

summary: somewhat boring poorly written clunky clumsy sentence book with interesting info on the world's best chefs.

Edited October 6, 2005 by chefboy24 (log)

[Michael Ruhlman]

Do you suppose that your friend Tony Bourdain hasn't left some unflattering things about himself out of his books, or indeed any items that others familiar with the various situations described might consider significant omissions? 

Do you suppose that everything in Ruch Reichl's however many memoirs she has now written is factually accurate, and that nothing others might find significant was omitted and that nothing was made up out of whole cloth?

Since I hardly see how the answer could be "yes," given human nature, do you feel that everything else they say is automatically suspect?  Or do you think your thoughts on this particular item may be especially strong due to the fact that the other party is Keller?

←

If tony left anything unflattering about himself out in his book, it was only because it was either boring or not applicable. I'd say he came pretty clean. i haven't heard anyone call him a liar, and surely they would have by now.

Ruth, in practically invisible tiny print on the copy right page of her first books, i believe, says some characters are composites, which i find unfortuneate. but at least she says so up front. and her main obligation in her books seems to be to entertain via story, and she's such a good generous writer, i'll even forgive the laziness of composites, whatever her reasons might be.

Neiher of them are misrepresenting themselves. In my first post on this amusing but increasingly tedious thread, I was clear to note my bias. I wish all writers would. Of course it makes a difference that the other party is Keller. But I don't even know Barber and he seems to have taken the brunt of it, named or not. If every writer conveyed their bias, the stories themselves would be far more entertaining, and far more durable.

[Lesley C]

i read the book as a result of this thread.

whether he got fired from the french laundry or whether the job wasn't a right match and he decided to leave (i personally believe the latter) is irrelevant. the 200 some page book is about all of the places he's worked, his journey, and there is some interesting stuff about how very succesful chefs run their restaurants. it is not well written, it is a collection of some simply flat-out interesting facts about some great chefs. it was very easy for me to read the book in about 2 or 3 sittings, i loved the information. i wish he wrote like bourgess or sedaris (a more talented greek) or bourdain (or even dan barber), but he doesn't.

dan barber stealing recipes? was he a sous chef or a co chef or what? who knows? who cares? personally if that time out magazine refered to him as sous chef, and he described the opening very well, and the whole process of the concept at peacock alley......and now he's being described as just a line cook, i think i'd rather take psaltis's side of the story. he was probably fired. but who cares, i liked the dirt on dan barber.

the dirt he was talking.....if anyone bothered to read the book....... was that dan barber was always looking at the french laundry cookbook and the el bulli 92-98 (or 92-96 or whatever) book in catalan and pulling stuff out of there and using a lot of those recipes (or variations on) when blue hill was starting. This was in 1999! (because he says the laundry book had recently come out). lots of chefs do this. lots of B-list chefs have the laundry cookbook in their office at the restaurant. chef's who are starting out and are trying to form their own cuisine lift recipes from cookbooks.

dan barber eventually after 3-4 years got really talented and original and is enjoying his deserved success. more proof that batali hasn't read the book. I'm sure barber's recipes are original NOW, but when they were at blue hill and he was pulling shit from the el bulli book, they were less original, 6 years ago.

how many fucking menu's in manhattan have tomato water on them in some form? i rest my case.

summary: somewhat boring poorly written clunky clumsy sentence book with interesting info on the world's best chefs.

Best post on the entire thread. Thanks for getting it out straight chefboy. Some of us tried to say the same thing, unfortunately using even clunkier, clumsier sentences.

[dvs]

I'm curious ...

Who's gone out and bought "Seasoning of a Chef" as a direct result of reading this thread?  Just a quick show of hands please?

The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about. - Oscar Wilde

A.

←

i tried, but it wasn't at my local waldenbooks... so i bought Soul of a Chef instead...

[M.X.Hassett]

i tried, but it wasn't at my local waldenbooks... so i bought Soul of a Chef instead...

←

Much better read imho

[dvs]

i tried, but it wasn't at my local waldenbooks... so i bought Soul of a Chef instead...

←

Much better read imho

←

i'm just a couple pages... so i look forward to it.

i'll probably still read doug's book... i read all that sort of stuff. i've read tony's books & am even very good friends with the person who brought him into his office and cried on his shoulder in SF... and i live in y-ville... so, eventually, with or without this thread it'd make it to my reading list.

[chefboy24]

i tried, but it wasn't at my local waldenbooks... so i bought Soul of a Chef instead...

←

Much better read imho

←

while it is better written, it is a much more boring topic. the master chef competition is a pretty silly thing. (i should know, i volunteered and helped out a chef in the 2004 test at CIA).

i can't think of one influential chef or even memorable one that has passed the master chef exam in this country.

there are much more influential and interesting chef's i'd rather read about then those who go thru the test at CIA. (bouley, barber, thomas keller, alain ducasse to start......oh......what a coincidence, they're all in psaltis's book, and none of them took the american master chef exam).

and lesley! thankyou!

[robert brown]

If he actually wrote about the incident in the book and said he didn't leave TFL on his own terms, we wouldn't be having this discussion. It all has to do with his credibility, not whether or not he actually hit anyone.

To me it is simple. If he didn't come clean in the book about the circumstances surrounding his leaving TFL, everything else he says is automatically suspect.

←

this is the only relevant point in this too-long conversation.

←

Including yours?

[tan319]

He probably shot himself in the foot but more because of the lynching going on on the internet.

I read the book more as a tale of a journey made by a guy who wanted to learn as much as he could about cooking and who wanted to cook and be trained by the best chefs he could work for.

Still don't feel there was anything overly insulting to anyone, especially 'You-Know-Who'

←

Perhaps an insult is not the greatest harm that can be done via a book. Perhaps someday you'll have the experience of needing to staff a kitchen on a budget as does Peter who has only to turn to the CIA to see prospective employees reading that he has nothing to teach them. That's the way a hit man works. A few words of praise and a couple of kisses on the cheek before you put the knife in someone's back. The naiveté on this board about how the restaurant world works, just stuns me, especially when it comes from so called professional chefs. I wonder about the ivory tower in which they work and in what parallel universe that must exist. The twins know how to hit low and no one here gets it. It's like using a rubber hose. It leaves no visible mark. I truly believe neither the supporters nor detractors of the book have a really good sense of what's going on and just how calculating this whole book was.

←

Sir, I've worked in a fair amount of kitchens , big and small, infamous, not so famous, and so on.

I've been lied to by famous chefs and not so famous chefs about money/positions/etc.

So have my friends.

With all due respect, and I mean all due respect, I can't believe how naive YOU are about how the restaurant world works!

"The Twins" if they're hitting low, will be found to be full of shit.

If there's a bit of truth to what they say, that will be what everyone expects anyways.

That's what I believe Lesley C. has been trying to get thru certain peoples heads here.

Chefs talk shit, especially up and coming ones.

And it isn't particularly meanspirited shit, it's just " I would do this differently shit."

If it was calculated to do anything other then tell a story, I'll eat the book, ok?

No matter how low the "twins" could be, do you think they calculated that a thread with close to or over 75K views, over 200 posts, at least 50 % of them demanding Psaltis' blood,and that's just here on eG, would be a fantastic thing for them???

If Dan Barber & Blue Hill lose any business or great hires, I would be amazed.

Ditto Thomas Keller.

BTW, if this thread doesn't get past this junk soon, why not bin it?

[M.X.Hassett]

while it is better written, it is a much more boring topic. the master chef competition is a pretty silly thing.  (i should know, i volunteered and helped out a chef in the 2004 test at CIA).

i can't think of one influential chef or even memorable one that has passed the master chef exam in this country.

there are much more influential and interesting chef's i'd rather read about then those who go thru the test at CIA.  (bouley, barber, thomas keller, alain ducasse to start......oh......what a coincidence, they're all in psaltis's book, and none of them took the american master chef exam).

and lesley! thankyou!

←

Ruhlman's book is three parts only one of wich is about the CMCE, but I digress so back to the thread.

Edited October 7, 2005 by Dave the Cook (log)