Deadly Locations

[Chris Amirault]

Drove down Thayer Street -- the main Brown University drag here in Providence -- this week and noticed that yet another restaurant had opened in the second-floor walk-up space at Meeting Street, this time named Shanghai Café (or something). It prompted my partner and I to reminisce about what has been there over the years, including an internet café, soup and wrap shop, and who knows what else.

Andrea then mentioned a moment in, she thought, Anthony Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential, in which he posits that some locations are just inexplicably deadly for restaurants. Seems the same would probably be true for bakeries, bars, fish mongers, you name it.

What are the killer food zones in your town? What seems to make 'em so dead?

[KatieLoeb]

I don't know that there are dead "zones" here in Philly, many of these spots are next to or across from very successful establishments, but I can certainly think of a couple of cursed restaurant spaces over the years. The corner of Passyunk & Bainbridge that used to be an old bank was briefly successful as Pompano Grille, back around 1995-96, but it failed eventually under the ponderous weight of the owners' greed and stupidity and so has everthing else that has followed it. The space at the Northwest corner of 17th & Spruce has been a black hole for every restaurant that's been there. And although it seems to be reasonably successful now as Positano Coast, the second floor space on the little triangle across from the Ritz theater at 2nd & Walnut has been at least a half dozen different incarnations, including a Mongolian BBQ joint that I still miss, because it was the only one of it's kind in Philly.

[SuzySushi]

In Honolulu, one corner of a major traffic interchange (Kapiolani Blvd. & McCully Street) seems deadly for restaurants. At least half a dozen have gone in & out of business in the 14 years I've been in Hawaii. On the opposite side of the street is a strip mall with several successful restaurants, but this corner is a loser. The difference? The parking for the loser location is in an alley behind the building, which no one can see from the street (you have to know to go).

[Chris Amirault]

There was a great place here in Providence that went up the owner's nose in the late 80s in the form of a recreational white powder unrelated to food, and it is as if the location has been cursed ever since. Coke ghosts must haunt the kitchens. I really miss it, too; like Katie's Mongolian place, it was one-of-a-kind.

[Toliver]

There's a restaurant on a main thorough fare here that hasn't been able to keep a tenent for very long. I blamed it on what must have been high rent for its popular location which is may not hold true anymore now that the shopping center it's located in is dying a slow death due to development in other parts of town.

Believe it or not, the first chain restaurant in that "cursed" location was a Tony Roma's. Now how does a Tony Roma's close?

After that it became a Fuddrucker's and again I ask, how does a Fuddrucker's close?

Now it's a Fresh Choice salad bar and has been for awhile. Perhaps the rent has been lowered enough to keep Fresh Choice around.

edited for spellling

Edited August 16, 2005 by Toliver (log)

[Brad Ballinger]

I've been working on a piece to submit to my local paper along these lines. In Minneapolis, a restaurant with a national reputation -- Goodfellow's -- recently closed. There's a thread about it in the Heartland Forum. A year or two prior, Aquavit (yes, affiliated with the NYC restaurant of the same name) also closed.

Both of these places were in downtown Minneapolis, but not proximal to any other attraction. And Minnesotans aren't the type to drive in from the suburbs just to eat out someplace nice unless they are 1) making a night of it that includes going to a bar or club before or after dinner, 2) going to the theatre, 3) going to the symphony, you get the idea. The downtown Minneapolis restaurants that are doing okay are closer to other attractions/venues. Adding to Aquavit and Goodfellow's would be un deux trois, Red, and Rockstar -- all even further away from where other things happen than eating. Yes, people here will go out to just dinner for some special occasions, but they won't do so more than once a year.

Goodfellow's was in a place that had several tennants come and go. Aquavit was in a place where there had not been a restaurant before.

And in St. Paul, if a restaurant isn't close to the Ordway Theatre or the Xcel Energy Center (sports/concert arena), forget it.

[Chris Amirault]

That makes sense, Brad. Trouble is, the place I'm thinking of should be able to serve cold pizza and warm beer to the hungry college swarms and make out like bandits.

Hmmm.... Cold pizza and warm beer.... That just might work!

[jhlurie]

Discussing specific locations is probably fruitless, except in major cities like NYC or LA, but we all know this phenomenon on a local level. I personally know of about 20 different "cursed" locations in my area, and I've worked up unique theories for each one. One, I imagine, has a greedy landlord, but lots of suckers who he convinces to lease the place at too high a rent anyway. Another has the constant scent of a Wendy's hamburger joint wafting over everything. A third is almost definitely haunted. Five others I know simply have bad parking. Two others have constantly been restaurants, but with kitchens that are too small--people have left simply out of frustration I think. A handful of others have "County Board of Health" violations written all over them. One location I can recall has just, for no apparent reason, had a string of businesses going in with concepts that totally didn't work for the area--four successive failed pizza/Italian places across the street from a well established one, then a bagel place with inferior bagels, then a coffee place near a Starbucks. Then finally a Starbucks itself--which finally worked.

[phaelon56]

Starbucks has finally reached the critical mass stage of wide market acceptance at allows them to open in locations previously considered marginal by their competitors (and even other non-beverage related food businesses). Yet they do plenty of business in these new spots.

In my community we're just now seeing the proliferation of Starbucks starting to develop. They're going into locations that had already been deemed as de facto useless by virtue of public apathy for previous businesses that existed there. But they are buying rather than leasing wherever possible and by virtue of increasing traffic flow due to their presence have begun to increase the value of the property.

Sooner or later they'll just be a massive real estate holding company that sells coffee just for the sake of having something to do with their time (or has that already happened? )

They recently paid $450,000 for a location near me that's on "the wrong side of the street" (relative to morning commuter traffic flow). Then they spent about $300,000 converting the existing building and Starbuckizing it. It seats only 12 - 15 people at most and has no drive-up window due to town zoning laws. But they're already doing well and will continue to grow their business exponentially if my guess is correct.

But $750,000 to open a small coffee shop in a smallish city where $150,000 buys you a nice 2,500 sq ft home in a good neighborhood? That's a lotta frappuccino's.

Being a chain in a community that flocks to chain restaurants can overcome the curse. Witness our local "strip" - Erie Blvd East. We have one location that was "cursed" for close to 30 years -a string of different places with different food and decor concepts came and went. Enter Ruby Tuesday's - who most likely bought the property for a song. It's unquestionably not as busy as the other Ruby Tuesday's location in town (which is equally disgusting but in a prime location in a very busy mall). But they're holding their own and into their 5th or 6th year of operation (or more).

On the other side of the strip just a half mile down is the truly cursed location. It began as a local drive-in fast-food joint called Carroll's (an early competitor to McDonald's). Eventually it was converted to a Burger King and Carroll's Corp. became the biggest Burger King licensee in the US.

Even a BK could not survive in that spot. They closed the BK and then other joints began to come and go.....

Swenson's Ice Cream.... Grandma's Pie Shoppe.... Lum's Hotdogs (steamed - oh yum)... Mexican.... then Tex-Mex.... all to no avail. But guess what? Olive Garden bought the empty lot next door, opened their doors, and has had a long wait for table nearly every night since then - for the past ten years or longer.

And the cursed location still sits empty - now with too high a price tag because the owners are convinced that it's a great location. Hey - after all - OG is busy every night - right?

[Toliver]

And the cursed location still sits empty - now with too high a  price tag because the owners are convinced that it's a great location. Hey - after all - OG is busy every night - right?

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Perhaps a java & dessert joint would make it next to the busy OG. The OG isn't really known for its sweets.

[KatieLoeb]

I worked at a tavern that was definitely haunted. I didn't believe those stories either until I saw and heard very strange things that had no other explanation. The building was the former home of a wealthy Colonial era Philadelphia ship captain (one of whose daughters eventually became Mrs. Aaron Burr, I believe) and after several empty rattling ice buckets, heavy bootwearing footsteps on the stairs when no one was there and shadowed figures that appeared to be wearing a long cloak in silhouette, I started thinking the staff wasn't just trying to freak me out.

Interestingly, it has been the same small bar/restaurant for several years now, and by all accounts is doing reasonably well. I stopped in there for a drink not too long ago and had an interesting conversation with the present owner. She's seen and heard some odd things too!

[Chris Amirault]

Sooner or later [starbucks]'ll just be a massive real estate holding company that sells coffee just for the sake of having something to do with their time (or has that already happened?  )

←

Owen, if I'm not mistaken, the chapter on McDonald's in Fast Food Nation references a statement by the CEO or COO of that mega-corporation saying that McD's is exactly that, a real estate company that leases space at exorbitant rates to burger flippers.

[phaelon56]

The new CEO of KMart is credited for engineering their turnaround by recognizing that their real esset was the real estate sitting underneath most of their underperforming stores. Close 'em down, sell it off and you have enough cash to buy Sears! Whether they can now succeed as a retailer remains to be seen.

Perhaps a java & dessert joint would make it next to the busy OG. The OG isn't really known for its sweets.

Won't happen. The owenrs of this now decrepit and derelict property (it needs to be razed - no value in renovation) wanted $650,000 about ten years ago before the OG was open or perhaps when it first opened and hadn't yet developed a busy trade. I'm sure they expect even more today. No one in this market and I mean no one - not even Starbuck's - could pay that kind of money, build a new structure and then turn a profit on java and desserts.

I suspect the only place that might possibly work there is another chain restaurant. But they're all targeting the city's rapidly growing northern suburbs for growth. The static east edge of the city is always a good place for more adventurous dining options and quality independents but the price of real estate on the "strip" keeps them eslewhere.

And my late beloved grandfather always insisted that one shoudl never open a store (by that he meant a small grocery) in one of those half-basement locations that's partially below ground level and requires walking down a few steps to access it.

[Arey]

In the So. Jersey resort town I live in there is a location that has been the death of a lot of restaurants. It started out as a Western Auto store, which failed, and then has been the site of a lot of restaurants that failed. Recently it was a bagel place, financed by the proprieter's father-in-law who wanted the husband of his "precious darling" to settle down and operate a successful business. However, it seems that "precious darling"'s husband didn't want to operate a bagel place. It was hard to tell when the place was open, and even when it was, the dark cavernous interior was very uninviting. The proprieter was also the only waiter , and his attitude made me wonder if he was going to announce himself by saying "Hello, I'm Charon, I'll be your server today.

So it closed, and was followed by an Italian restaurant I really liked. The proprieter made a really good spaghetti with garlic and oil, and his grilled vegetable antipasto was great. I was told by my former barber, Cynthia , that the proprieter was a male chauvinistic Italian pig, who treated his waitresses in a demeaning and degrading manner, and spend his whole time, when not pointing out the soul-destroying result of feeding Americans, to wishing he was back in Italy. This didn't bother me. Like I said his spaghetti with oil and garlic was really good, and his grilled vegetable antipasto was to die for. What difference did it make to me if he spent his spare time kicking puppies and drowning kittens, unless, of course, they were Boston Terrier puppies and Burmese kittens. You have to draw the line somewheres.

Following the departure of the Italian male chauvinistic pig who did a really good sphagetti with garlic and olive oil, another Italian restaurant opened. I never got around to going there. Even from the outside the inside was uninviting. It wouldn't have surprised me. if when you entered the vestibule, you were greeted by a man in a toga who said "Hello, I'm Virgil, I'll be your guide"

Well, early this Spring, there were signs in the window announcing the B*****

M****** C***. A deli and gourmet grocery store. They had posted the menu from their home location in the window. Quiches, empanadas. Thai Spring rolls, and assorted imported cheeses would be among the many take-out items available. Once I pried myself off the window, and wiped the saliva off with a hanky, I told myself, "finally take-out besides pizza , cheesesteaks, and subs has come to the island"

When I told my butcher, who is also a town councilman that a new and wonderful cafe-gourmet grocery-take out place was about to open, his response was "I wish people would stop trying to open restaurant's there".

Well, that was March and here it is two weeks from Labor Day and they haven't managed to open yet. It seems the floor in the entire first floor had to be replaced, then they were having licensing problems with the state in mid July which could take up to 45 days to resolve, so the B**** M***** C**** may not be the first place to fail at that location, but it may be the first one to do so without even opening.

[helenjp]

Parking is a definite one...I know several great places I never visit, because they are on busy roads, but are set so close to the road that I can't even pull in for 5 minutes, let alone park for an hour. (We don't believe in things like sidewalks in Japan, life's a lottery, why try to disguise it...).

Other things -- wrong side of a busy road, poor street lighting makes dinner customers feel unsafe...etc.

[Carrot Top]

The proprieter was also the only waiter , and his attitude made me wonder if he was going to announce himself by saying "Hello, I'm Charon, I'll be your server today.

This is a very funny story, Arey. I really do hope you will write back in when (if?) the B* M* C* place opens to let us know who the greeter at the door is there!

With a building that has a history like that, I can not but imagine that it will be yet another in this continuing line of characters that is standing near the door to make one "welcome". ( )