Not blogging, spewing . . .

[Florida Jim]

Rambling thoughts:

I love Burgundy. Several experiences with aged bottles have delivered the sine qua non of wine, for me. But, . . . I bought a good bit of the stuff from vintages 1993 through 2000, and I am beginning to think that doing so was little different from buying first growths; you have to wait so long for them to mature you had best be a young person when you’re buying. After having tasted a number of 93’s, 96’s, 98’s and 99’s recently, I can’t imagine any of them maturing in the foreseeable future (too bad I didn’t buy more 97’s).

Cellaring wine for my daughter (as much as I love her) was not what I had in mind here. Oregon pinots are starting to look better and better; they seem to mature sooner and they still have the food friendly, more elegant profile I look for in this variety.

I’ve tried most of them, but the very best cork-screw I’ve found is the Teflon-coated, double pull action model. Not even a lever pull is easier and it’s a lot bulier.

Italian whites are getting better and better. I know quite a number of very experienced wine geeks who don’t much care for them (or at least, that’s what they say). It makes me wonder if they’ve had a Pieropan, Soave, recently or a Greco, Falanghina or Fiano from a good producer. Mind bending, idiosyncratic wines like Valentini’s Trebbiano; Gravner’s, Ribolla Gialla; and, Lambruschi’s, Vermentino, are extraordinary and age-worthy. Refreshing varieties like Arneis, Cortese, Garganega, Grillo, Picolit and Tocai Friulano are making delicious, mostly inexpensive, bianchi.

My cellar is filling up with these.

Whatever happened to Vince Contatello?

Another region that seems unable to shed its ‘bad rep.’ is Beaujolais. The number of people that immediately say “nouveau” when I talk about Beaujolais is disheartening. Even here in vinous cyberspace, the prejudice is evident.

I told some folks the other day that I thought cru Beaujolais represented the single best value in red wine today and that some producers were making wines of such quality as to be some of the best juice from anywhere. What followed was a pregnant silence and the unanimous stares of the incredulous. And then they went back to chatting as though I’d never said a word.

Maybe I should be happy that such misconceptions keep demand and prices down. But misconceptions they are, as is clearly evidenced by the wines of Dom. Vissoux, Louis Jadot, Jean-Paul Brun, Diochon, Paul Janin, Michael Chignard, Dominique Piron, Chat. Thixin, Dom. Dupeuble, Dom. de la Voute des Crozes, Jean Calot, Pierre et Paul Durdilly, Dom. du Granit, Alain Michaud, Devignes, Savoye, Jacky Janodet, Souchons, Georges Viornery, Laurent Martray, Foillard, Lapierre, Breton, Coudert, and Jean-Paul Ruet.

(But then, maybe I’m just as bad as those who don’t believe in Beaujolais; I am not even interested in trying sparkling shiraz. We all have are prejudices, I guess.)

Spain.

For years the only thing I knew about the wine business there was Vega Sicilia, Rioja, Ribero del Duero and sherry. I couldn’t afford the first and didn’t care about the others.

But just as the Italian whites are coming into focus for me, so are the wines of the Levant, Galicia, New and Old Castille, and Catalonia. And the prices for most of these wines are really inexpensive. As a matter of fact, I find more often than not that I like the low-priced wines better than attempts by producer’s here to create high-end or premium wines (they seem to be able to afford more new oak for the upper-end cuvees).

White varieties such as Albarino, Godello, Loureira, Verdejo and Pedro Ximenez are used in making some truly wonderful table wines and, in the case of PX, a distinctive dessert wine. Tempranillo may still be king of the reds but Bobal, Mencia, Carinena (Carignan), Garnacha, Graciano, Monastrell (Mourvedre) and Juan Garcia are making wines in these areas that rival even the best of Tempranillo based wines.

If you get a chance, try to find some of the wines from these areas and these varieties; I think you will be both pleasantly surprised by the quality and your credit card statements.

Oh yes, and don’t forget Cava, the sparkling wine of Catalonia; bright, vividly earthy and cheap . . . real cheap.

Best, Jim

[Brad Ballinger]

Italian whites are getting better and better. I know quite a number of very experienced wine geeks who don’t much care for them (or at least, that’s what they say). It makes me wonder if they’ve had a Pieropan, Soave, recently or a Greco, Falanghina or Fiano from a good producer. Mind bending, idiosyncratic wines like Valentini’s Trebbiano; Gravner’s, Ribolla Gialla; and, Lambruschi’s, Vermentino, are extraordinary and age-worthy. Refreshing varieties like Arneis, Cortese, Garganega, Grillo, Picolit and Tocai Friulano are making delicious, mostly inexpensive, bianchi.

My cellar is filling up with these.

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I'm going to get a bit technical with you, although I don't disagree regarding the pleasure Italian white wines can bring. I'm not so sure it's that the wines themselves are getting better as it is that better wines are being made available. Five years ago (one could almost reduce that to three) hardly anyone on an internet wine discussion board typed in the words Falanghine, Greco di Tufo, Fiano di Avellino, Arneis or even Picolit (but that last one is more of a dessert wine than all the others you list).

Part of the reason these weren't being discussed is because not many were being imported. That's changing.

[Florida Jim]

Part of the reason these weren't being discussed is because not many were being imported.  That's changing.

A blessing.

Best, Jim

[docsconz]

Part of the reason more are being exported/imported is because the interest in and demand for is increasing. Ironically, I think part of that interest stems from the over homogenization of the internationally styled wines of the more traditionally popular varietals.

Jim, I agree wholeheartedly with your assessments of Italian whites (and reds) as well as the Spaniards. As for the Beaujeaulais, I'll have to try some for myself as I must admit I haven't had any for quite some time. Terry Robards, former wine critic for the New York Times has alwways been an ardent supporter of those wines. He particularly touts their aging potential.

[Rebel Rose]

I love Italians, and have been a fan since I first discovered wine. Although often higher in volatile acidity than other countries, Italian wines are reliably food friendly, and sexy in the same kind of respectful, understated way that Italian men are.

Ken Volk also produced some central coast tocai friulano and arneis before selling Wild Horse--I haven't tried the Italian versions of those varietals so I can't compare, but I'm excited that Italian white varieties are becoming more available here while still fresh in the bottle.

[docsconz]

Italian wines are reliably food friendly, and sexy in the same kind of respectful, understated way that Italian men are. 

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You know me so well and we've never even met!

[maf]

I'll save time and state up front I don't know that much about wine, except that I prefer it red and, except for the occasional splurge, inexpensive. Despite my cheap nature, one of my better ideas occurred a couple years ago when I bought a mixed case of bordeaux for the years my daughters were born ('93 and '98), including some of the first growth stuff that I've seldom experienced. The idea is to pull it out on the 21st birthday, graduation, engagement, etc., and hopefully it will be a fun experience.

I've recently thought maybe another case would be in order (after all, I'll have to share), and your comment on the staying qualities of burgundy has me thinking that perhaps this would be a good choice for that eventual wedding wine (no need to rush these things).

So here's the (neophyte) question- what burgundies would you recommend for, say, 20 years from now? Where can I find them in '98 and '93 vintages?

[JohnL]

Generalizations about wine are dicey--but we all make them--adds to the fun!

The vast majority of Burgundies are fine at five to ten years age(IMOP).

It would be interesting if Florida Jim specified what Burgundies he was talking about in his post. (Jim???)

In my experience--I happen to love and have cellared a lot of Burgundy over the past twenty years or so--very few need decades of age. I also have developed an appreciation for drinking wines at younger ages (maybe I am ageing--and that's why!). so that's a factor (Jim may prefer his Burgundy at an older age).

I suspect that depending upon the producer and adding in the fact that Jim is probably talking about First growth and Grand Cru wines --these are likely to be quite expensive!

also

I am curious as to why you are interested in the 98 and 93 vintages.

anyway

we need to hear from Jim!

[Brad Ballinger]

I'll save time and state up front I don't know that much about wine, except that I prefer it red and, except for the occasional splurge, inexpensive. Despite my cheap nature, one of my better ideas occurred a couple years ago when I bought a mixed case of bordeaux for the years my daughters were born ('93 and '98), including some of the first growth stuff that I've seldom experienced. The idea is to pull it out on the 21st birthday, graduation, engagement, etc., and hopefully it will be a fun experience.

I've recently thought maybe another case would be in order (after all, I'll have to share), and your comment on the staying qualities of burgundy has me thinking that perhaps this would be a good choice for that eventual wedding wine (no need to rush these things).

So here's the (neophyte) question- what burgundies would you recommend for, say, 20 years from now? Where can I find them in '98 and '93 vintages?

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Every disclaimer about buying on vintage alone notwithstanding...

If you plan on buying Burgundy from the 1993 and 1998 vintages, you'd be best off buy Grand Cru wines from top producers, especially for the 1998 vintage. And if you've shelled out for First Growth Bordeaux, I'm guessing you have the means to buy the Burgundy equivalents.

If it is "staying power" you are looking for, you may also wish to consider late harvest wines from Germany 9labeled beerenauslese, trockenbeerenauslese, or eiswein).

As to where to find them, especially, 1993 vintage wines, you may have to go to the online auction sites. You can google for wine auction, and find plenty. Also, keying in your criteria at winesearcher.com will also yield results.

[JohnL]

Ya know--I was stuck on Florida Jim's very interesting post that started the thread so I shoulda addressed him directly--re the Burgundies.

As to the post from MAF (and to elaborate on Brad's above):

Any 1993 Burgundy will be a bit difficult to find red or white. Auctions are the best place. Prices on first growth should be $80 and up per bottle.

also some major retailers may be a good source--for eg Sokolin on LI carries a lot of older Burgundy. The NY Wine Warehouse --there are probably a few good retailers within reasonable distance from you. (wherever you are)

and you might want to consider magnums--they age more slowly than reg bottles.

In all liklihood (unless you attend an auction where they will let you taste a sample) buying without tasting an older vintage is really dicey!

You should have an easier time finding some good 98's.

I like Brad's thought re: late harvest wines (though these are whites) you can get some pretty good wines at reasonable prices.

what might really be interesting (and safer) is to put together mixed cases of wines from Burgundy, Rhone, Italy, Germany, Spain etc maybe two or thre bottles each etc.

That way you can hedge your bets and have some fun seeing/tasting what the world produced in those important (to you ) years!

Older Barolo from Italy is (IMOP) probably some of the most age worthy red wine anywhere. Also the Rhone--Hermitage and Cote Roti as well as Spain (older Rioja's are great). Toss in some German sweet whites and with those cases of Bordeaux and Cal you will have a very interesting look at the "world" of wine.

[Florida Jim]

John and Joe,

Sorry to be tardy, I was away.

The Burgs. I have in my cellar that prompted my initial post post come from some of the following producers: Drouhin, Roumier, Dugat-Py, Chevillon, Clavelier, de Vogue, Bizot, Barthod, Courcel, d'Angerville, Dujac, Fourrier, Jadot, Lafarge, Leroy and Rousseau. As I believe that producer is paramount in Burgundy, this is pretty much the list I would recommend to Joe for aging. There are others but some I can't find and some I can't afford (DRC). Certainly the 1'ers and grand cru's from these folks would be the ideal condidates for the long term.

But I also like John's list of stuff outside Burg. for the long term (especially Barolo) and a mixed case may be a wonderful way to introduce your kids to not only fine, aged wine but the variety that makes this hobby so enjoyable.

Best, Jim