Kaitenzushi

[Jason Perlow]

http://www.roboticsushi.co.kr/page02.html

[yvonne johnson]

Which one are you getting for your new kitchen, Jason? :)

Presumably the sushi sold in supermarkets is made using these? And I just love the music that comes with this page!

[Fat Guy]

It would be cool to put non-sushi stuff into the Maki Robot, like maybe ice cream or fruit.

[papachef]

This thread saddens me. Maybe one day I will have only robo employees. No interaction, no imagination, no talking back, being late, complaining or attitude. Wait  this is a great idea. When are they gonna invent that Prepbot 2600.

[BON]

Thanks to sushi robots, Tokyo is replete with Kaiten sushi -as the conveyor-belt sushi restaurant is called - where customers pick up the delicacies they want from an assortment on a machine-driven conveyor belt. Their qualities have been getting  better. Above all, they are cheap!

[Cire]

For those in New York, you can pick up a Sushi Robot down at Korin in Tribeca at 57 Warren st.

Cire

[jhlurie]

Thanks to sushi robots, Tokyo is replete with Kaiten sushi -as the conveyor-belt sushi restaurant is called - where customers pick up the delicacies they want from an assortment on a machine-driven conveyor belt. Their qualities have been getting  better. Above all, they are cheap!

We've got one of these in my area, minus the robot. Actual people put the sushi on little colored plates (they tell you the price of the item) and everyone sits in a big circle watching the sushi go around and around.

Much fun! And maybe not as cheap as if a robot ran things, but still reasonably affordable.

[Jason Perlow]

Actually Jon they DO have a robot there but its only used to mold the nigiri rice. They hand cut the fish and place it on the pre-formed nigiris.

[torakris]

Last night on Japanese tv they were showing a new maki-zushi making robot that can pump out 2500 makis an hour! The machine is 4 meters long and the nori comes in rolls, the rice is placed into one "tank" and the filling is placed into another, the machine is turned on, the rice pressed out onto the nori, the filling piped in as it slides the whole thing down the conveyer belt, the maki are rolled shut and then cut and ready to be served.

The only only problem was that is moved so fast the human workers couldn't keep up while trying to plate it!

[skchai]

They have all kinds. Take a look at the catalog page for one of the largest Japanese manufacturers, Shimazu Kikai. They have separate machines for maki, nigiri ("shari-dama"), oshi, and even inari. Click on the bulleted links on the page to see the actual machines.

And if that isn't enough, how about a gyoza-making machine? The "best-selling" one, no less.

Or a yakitori-making machine?

Extremely scary stuff.

Edited September 19, 2003 by skchai (log)

[jrufusj]

I actally know very little about sushi, since virtually all the sushi I eat is at kaiten-zushi places. You never have to ask for more 'gari' or order your favourite fish by name- it's all there at the table or whizzing by on the belt!

Right now, I'm a temporary summer bachelor. That means my cooking life tends to be at one of two extremes: either I am undertaking a difficult, extremely involved project that may last days or I am subsisting on convenience food. As much as I love doing ordinary, everday type cooking for friends and family, I just can't get excited about run-of-the-mill cooking for one.

Okay, what does this have to do with sushi? Well, when I say I eat convenience foods, I don't literally mean MacDonald's or things from the combini. I mean things like lots of cheap noodle shops, a little basic yakitori, some kaiten-zushi.

Last night I had to go to Ikebukuro to shop at the Toys/Kids/Babies'R'Us in Sun City. Hungry for something, I stopped to eat kaiten-zushi. The most notable thing about the meal is that it reminded me why I don't eat kaiten-zushi very often. Other than kanimiso gunkanmaki and surprisingly good basashizushi, everything was thoroughly mediocre. It was dirt cheap, but at twice the price of a bowl of noodles, it still wasn't good QPR. Perhaps if I had just had the basashi it would have been just about fair.

Today, though, I went to my neighborhood kaiten-zushi place for lunch. This one is significantly more expensive (ranging from 110 to 450 yen per two pieces), but represents better value. They actually have a specials board that really changes depending on what they got in that was best that day. The conveyor is small relative to the number of seats so things turn over quickly. The rice seems to have better texture, even if it is a little underseasoned compared to the best sushiya. Probably 50-60% of the food is served by order rather than off the belt.

Today they had quite good shima aji, nice akagai that I don't think had been frozen, and really pretty madai. Every kaiten-zushi shop seems to have aji, akagai, and tai of some sort, but usually not shima aji, or fresh akagai, or madai.

The other thing that seems to make a difference is the staff to seats ratio. I don't know what the normal ratios are, but there is enough labor that when I ask for something that's not even on the board and is labor intensive like nakaochi, it doesn't present a problem. I suspect this staff level affects the quality of everything from rice to finished product, if only because less has to be done before opening and held.

It's not the cheap, mediocre pig out that many kaiten shops are, but it fills a nice middle spot between that and the expensive traditional shops. And it doesn't hurt that it's a three minute walk from my house. I've never noticed the name, but I'll look next time I walk by. The shop is just off Meguro-dori, across from the east side of JR station.

Also -- one question: Today one of the specials was aburi engawa. I've never seen this before. Is this common? Anyone ever seen it? I didn't like it too much, as the hot oil bath destroyed the two things I like best about engawa: the oil obscured the light, assari taste of the hirame and the slight cooking softened the normal texture. To me, engawa is all about texture, so this is not good.

So, the point of all this: smallworld, true you don't have to know the names to eat kaiten-zushi, but it sure is better when you have the chance to pay kaiten prices for sushi made to order!

Jim

Edited July 19, 2004 by jrufusj (log)

[smallworld]

So, the point of all this: smallworld, true you don't have to know the names to eat kaiten-zushi, but it sure is better when you have the chance to pay kaiten prices for sushi made to order!

Well, I was exaggerating a bit before. I agree that ordering is definitely the way to go. It's just that I can only order what I know, thus my repertoire is very small. There is always some mystery item whizzing by that piques my interest- I'll grab it, eat it, and fall in love with it, all before thinking to ask the chef what it is.

There really are amazing differences in quality between all the kaiten-zushi shops out there. There are a few ways to determine if a new place is good or not. Family-type places (with noisy games at each booth, lots of kiddy desserts on the belt, and weird kid-friendly sushi) are out. The places with no actual people visible (you order through an intercom)- forget it. Places boasting cheap prices- they're cheap for a reason.

Once in the shop, order something already out on the conveyor belt. If the chef just grabs an old one rather than making it fresh, it's a bad place. If you see the chef slicing fish, that's good- many large chains pre-slice their fish in a central warehouse and send them out that way to the all the shops. Yuck. Soups or side dishes obviously made with fish by-products are good- another sign that the shop is not using pre-sliced fish.

Then there are the little touches, that show the difference between a place out to earn big bucks by skimping on the extras and a place that cares about its customers. Do you get an actual oshibori, or an individually-wrapped wet-wipe, or does the place have one of those plastic tubs of wet-wipes? We've only been to a few places that had real oshibori, so it's not expected, but I will never go back to a place with a communal tub of wet-wipes. That's just nasty.

I like the places with good-quality tea bags and real ceramic glasses. If you need to put two or three bags of tea in your cup before you can taste anything, they're using cheap crappy tea.

Finally, my husband has a way to test if they use real ikura or not. He'll drop one in his tea, and depending on what happens (something to do with floating or not and a change of colour) he can tell if it's real or fake. Wish I could remember what it was...

Thus, after sampling dozens of kaiten-zushi shops, we've found one good shop in Tokyo. Yup, just one. It is expensive by kaiten-zushi standards, but it's pretty good and is a short bike ride away.

Oh yeah, I just have to ask- why was your aburi-engawa oily? The aburi treatment has become really popular recently, and I love it. True, it doesn't work for everything, but if I ever see aburi-engawa I will definitely order it.

[jrufusj]

smallworld wrote:

There are a few ways to determine if a new place is good or not. Family-type places (with noisy games at each booth, lots of kiddy desserts on the belt, and weird kid-friendly sushi) are out. The places with no actual people visible (you order through an intercom)- forget it. Places boasting cheap prices- they're cheap for a reason.

Absolutely! If it looks like Chucky Cheese, if it is deserted and the sushi on the belt may have been made yesterday (or an hour or two ago), if the prices are too good to be true -- then I don't want to be there.

She continued:

Once in the shop, order something already out on the conveyor belt. If the chef just grabs an old one rather than making it fresh, it's a bad place. If you see the chef slicing fish, that's good- many large chains pre-slice their fish in a central warehouse and send them out that way to the all the shops. Yuck. Soups or side dishes obviously made with fish by-products are good- another sign that the shop is not using pre-sliced fish.

One of the things I like about "my" kaiten-zushi place is that such a large percentage of the food is made to order. There is no need for me to eat anything off the belt if I don't want to.

There are soups and sides made with by-product which augers well. Much of the fish is presliced, but I don't think it comes from a central kitchen. Why? First, the simple taste of some of the fish. Second, there is no rainbow effect on any of it and that will set in quite quickly. Third, things like nakaochi are not on the menu, but they can whip them up for me, implying some degree of on-site fabrication, as nakaochi comes off (from between actually) the bones. Finally, the staff count is such that I have a hard time envisioning why they would have all that staff if they were just slapping pre-cut neta onto shari that came our of one of those rice finger extruding machines.

She further continued:

Then there are the little touches, that show the difference between a place out to earn big bucks by skimping on the extras and a place that cares about its customers. Do you get an actual oshibori, or an individually-wrapped wet-wipe, or does the place have one of those plastic tubs of wet-wipes? We've only been to a few places that had real oshibori, so it's not expected, but I will never go back to a place with a communal tub of wet-wipes. That's just nasty.

I like the places with good-quality tea bags and real ceramic glasses. If you need to put two or three bags of tea in your cup before you can taste anything, they're using cheap crappy tea.

Finally, my husband has a way to test if they use real ikura or not. He'll drop one in his tea, and depending on what happens (something to do with floating or not and a change of colour) he can tell if it's real or fake. Wish I could remember what it was...

No real oshiburi, but at least an individually delivered, individually wrapped wipette. However, the tea is not from tea bag. It is from matcha, which should be good. But it's from that big plastic shaker bottle with the green top that is in every grocery store. And that's not good!

If you find out the trick on the ikura, I would be really interested to hear that. One of the items that is surprisingly reasonable (though more expensive than most kaiten-zushi shops) is ikura.

And furthermore, she said:

Thus, after sampling dozens of kaiten-zushi shops, we've found one good shop in Tokyo. Yup, just one. It is expensive by kaiten-zushi standards, but it's pretty good and is a short bike ride away.

The place you have found is probably much better than mine, as you have certainly tried more places in the search of something decent. However, as a gap filler between kaiten-crap and bank breaking upscale, my neighborhood place is pretty pleasing.

Finally:

Oh yeah, I just have to ask- why was your aburi-engawa oily? The aburi treatment has become really popular recently, and I love it. True, it doesn't work for everything, but if I ever see aburi-engawa I will definitely order it.

I was probably too hard on it. I wouldn't say that it was oily, just that the bit of oil and the more assertive cooking flavor obscured what should be a very delicate flavor. One of the reasons I enjoy sushi is that I am able to get the essence of the unadulterated ingredient. I don't mind a little seasoning -- like a little ponzu with engawa or the topping on katsuo tataki -- but the essence of the hirame was lost in this one. I too like the aburi treatment. I think it works really well with more assertive fish like salmon. But I would probably pass on treating a light, white-fleshed fish that way. Then again, I'm going to have to try it again and see if I was being unfair.

Jim

[torakris]

We went out for kaiten sushi yesterday, the last time we went a couple months ago it was to Kappa Sushi, a large chain where everything is 100 yen ($1). I was far from impressed so I spent some time researching options in our area, with 5 big eaters price was my biggest concern.

I found a local place　called Kaiten Sushi Tafu:

http://r.gnavi.co.jp/g478900/

the prices start at 80 ($.80) per dish (2 pieces) and went up to 630 yen ($6.30), most averaged around 160 yen ($1.60) and 240 yen ($2.40). This was just good plain old sushi, no fancy gimmicky types and it was a good place for kids with out be Chuck E Cheeze-y. There was a dish of about 5 very large (and very good!) karaage (deep fried chicken) for 240 yen and plenty of egg and cucumber rolls.

This was all handmade by 4 men behind the counters, both shaping rice and slicing fish, which is unusual for a palce this cheap. There were also about 5 people working the floor taking orders and this place wasn't even that big. Some of the sushi was mediocre, most of it was above average (compared to other kaiten places) and some was just great. My favorite included a seki aji (a brand name aji), kan buri ("cold" yellowtail) and their oyster gunkan. Once I had my first dish of the oysters (at only 160 yen) that was all I ate..... raw oyster in a gunkan maki topped with some spiced grated daikon and lemon slices, wow!

We spent 5600 yen (about $56) for our family of 5 and I was very satisfied and will definitely be going back.

[Hiroyuki]

Sushi Douraku is the only kaiten zushi restaurant we have here in Shiozawa. When we go there, we don't sit at the counter but sit at one of the tables on the tatami (straw mat) floor and order sushi items one by one in advance.

Sushi Douraku:

http://www.citydo.com/prf/nigata/guide/sg/205000122.html

http://www.iijnet.or.jp/shiozawa/insyokute...usidoursku.html

Some people say that the vinegared rice here is quite good for a kaiten zushi restaurant.

When you sit at the counter and watch the sushi on the plates go round and round, you are likely to eat more.

According to this site

http://www.ktv.co.jp/ARUARU/search/arukaiten/kaiten2.htm

people eat an average of ten plates of sushi, but tests have shown that when the sushi plate do not go round and round, people eat an average of 4.5 plates. When moving, sushi look fresher and more delicious, stimulating your appetite.

[helenjp]

weird kid-friendly sushi

Don't knock weird kid-friendly sushi! There was a time when son2 was extremely picky, and without corn-topped sushi, we would never have broken out of Wendy's!

However, the really bad kaiten places tend to go broke after a few months/years, helpfully making it easier to select a decent place.

I like sardine or aji (yellowtail) nigiri-zushi, cheap and excellent when fresh.

[merrybaker]

It never crossed my mind that there are automated sushi machines such as this.

[Jason Perlow]

Yep, these are sushi robots that are used almost exclusively for the production of nigiri at the highly popular "Kaiten" style budget sushi restaurants throughout Japan.

[JasonTrue]

I see them at the Hoteres trade show every year at Tokyo Big Site in March.

The one you're looking at seems like one of the more modest-capacity ones. Some of them pop out nigiri-zushi onto large trays. The main differentation between these types of machines after speed is how closely the texture replicates the "real thing".

These are usually meant for making nigiri-zushi for kaiten-zushi restaurants or for institutional food service. There are some for maki-zushi and for o-musubi (onigiri) as well.

I've also seen machines suitable for gyouza production, shumai, and so on. Some are designed for busy restaurant applications, and some are designed for more industrial uses.

I've seen some machines for sauteeing also... they either "jump" the food with a simulated wrist action or they have a corkscrew-like insert and automatic pan movement.

You can also find machines that automatically wet, warm and wrap cloth oshibori.

The coolest machine I saw at Hoteres wasn't an automated machine... It was a fryer that had some internal flow mechanism that makes sure water doesn't return to the surface, so the old throw an ice cube in the fryer trick doesn't work anymore... no dangerous steam explosions. It was called a "clean fryer." I always wanted to import that, though I can't say I have any restaurant customers for such a thing.

It never crossed my mind that there are automated sushi machines such as this.

←

[Lazrowp]

Hi!

I lived in Osaka from 1989 - 1995. During this time I 1st began to eat sushi and of course it was the 1st time I tried kaitenzushi = conveyor belt sushi (C.B.S.). When I returned to the States sushi had become so popular with new sushi restaurants popping up all over the place, but not so many C.B.S. restaurants. My dream is to open a C.B.S. restaurant on the East Coast of America in Philadelphia. It is tough to get a serious feel for C.B.S scene while I am here in the States, so I would like to start this thread so that I can better understand what is going on currently in Japan.

I would like to discuss:

- What are your likes and dislikes at kaitenzushi?

- What are your favorite kaitenzushi to go to and why (pictures are a plus)?

- What makes some kaitenzushi popular while some are not so great?

- Do you see kaitenzushi as just a gimmick?

Ookini!

Paul

[Lazrowp]

For transparency, I want you to know that I also started a thread in the eG Forums > Restaurants, Cuisine, and Travel > United States > Pennsylvania section called "Starting a Restaurant in Philly" where I try to document the crazy journey of opening a restaurant. (I am hoping to open my doors in October 2005.)

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=68351

Paul

[SuzySushi]

Paul,

Kaitenzushi might no be so popular in Philadelphia, but try coming to Honolulu sometime, where there are at least half a dozen kaitenzushi chains. (Largest is probably Genki Sushi.) And, the first time I had kaitenzushi was in the early 1980s in NYC! I presume it's still available there.

[JasonTrue]

Kaitenzushi wasn't exactly meant as a gimmick in Japan (although the elaborate conveyor belt systems have made it seem so), according to my understanding.

I read that the kaitenzushi service model basically made it possible to reduce labor costs and therefore serve adequate sushi at incredibly low prices. With the sushi molding machines for both nigiri and makimono, the cost has been pushed down even further.

Of course, no small amount of art is gone at such places.

[Kiem Hwa]

Like Suzysushi mentioned, here in Hawaii... and in California, people love sushi like crazy, and the realtively new Kaiten sushi chain, Genki Sushi is extremely popular and always packed on weekends, though I haven't been there yet because I prefer the actual sushi-chef experience. I think Genki Sushi is a franchise.

Genki's Japanese website

I wonder how people on the East coast feel about sushi though.... I visited my sister who was going to school in upstate NY (Rochester), and we went out for "sushi".... about 90% of the menu items were cooked, and only some of that included fish..... and all my sister's friend's thought it was fabulous and wouldnt even dream of eating raw fish... as for me, after years of eating fabulous sushi in Hawaii and LA... I couldnt handle it

Needless to say, the "dim sum" we had over there was equally dissapointing....

So....how do people on the East coast (not including NYC) feel about "real" sushi???

Is there are big interest over there in sushi? Are people afraid or not of raw fish? I wonder if you will have to have a bit of cooked items on your menu....

To answer your question though....My likes and dislikes about kaiten....

I think its pretty fun to get the sushi on the conveyor belt (Kaiten sushi in Japan was my first restaurant sushi experience and it was really fun!), I think in some place they have the boat on a little river with the sushi... even funner, but probably pricier to set up.

However, I dont like when the quality of fish is really poor (like a 100yen place I went to in Osaka that was awful...and since then havent been to a Kaiten place...another reason I havent been to Genki yet).

The best kaiten sushi place would consistently have good quality fish, still very fresh when it is travelling around the belt, and is at a reasonable price.

Article about Kaiten in Hawaii

[Lazrowp]

Paul,

Kaitenzushi might no be so popular in Philadelphia, but try coming to Honolulu sometime, where there are at least half a dozen kaitenzushi chains. (Largest is probably Genki Sushi.) And, the first time I had kaitenzushi was in the early 1980s in NYC! I presume it's still available there.

←

Kaitenzushi is still in NYC, although the place you went to in the 80s closed. In preparation for my venture, I worked at a kaitenzushi place located at 26th & 3rd ave. called East which had a pretty good crowd of customers. I felt like they could have done better with better advertising/marketing though. They never really advertised to non-Japanese people.

Paul