High Alcohol Wines: Over 14%

[Capaneus]

Zind-Humbrecht in Alsace makes a number of wines with more than 14%, white wines at that... 

←

Uh. I've been drinking Zind-Humbrecht's wines for well over a decade now, and my impression (though I don't usually check the alcohol content) is that they are pretty mild stuff. That's also my experience with other Alsatians as well, which makes sense, given the climate. Now, if you've climbed aboard recently, the last couple of vintages have been freakish, because of very hot summers. You'll find the same across much of Europe - including the Mosel, if you can believe it.

The Zind-Humbrecht wines in my cellar range in alcohol content from 11.5% for some of the SGNs to this wine which is better described by Parker than by me:

The 1994 Gewurztraminer Hengst V.T. represents the essence of Gewurztraminer. It tastes dry despite nearly 5% residual sugar. The natural alcohol comes in at an amazing 17+%....

There is a huge difference from vintage to vintage with their wines, the 2000 VTs in the cellar are 13.5%.

←

That makes sense. Vendanges Tardives and Selections de Grains Nobles would start out with much higher brix than their regular bottlings, so they'd have to be vinified either sweet or dry and alcoholic. I've only ever tasted a couple, and they were sweet, rather than fully fermented, and the stuff I do drink more often I'll guess is in fact low alcohol.

That '94 sounds like a Beast!

[mbanu]

High alcohol wines would probably be good for extended barrel aging periods, which seems to be what a lot of people drinking wine nowadays want anyways. Old wines have prestige that new wines don't, even if the reason old wines were aged in the first place was that they were too harsh to drink young. ;P

Hopefully this trend in higher and higher alcohol wines will re-spark interest in fortified wines like port, sherry, and madiera. :)

[carswell]

I'm not a fan of >15% dry reds in general (too many zinfandels). Not that there will be many in this range, given the limitations of the yeast.

←

Except it used to be that 14.5 to 15% was the upper limit for yeasts. Today's super yeasts have raised that a point or two. "Now 15 is the new 14," say Qupé's Bob Lindquist. How much longer before 16 or 17 is the new 15?

Over all balance is more important then a strict reading of the alcohol content to me I think.

Agreed, and Amarone is a good example. But how often do people pop the cork on a full-blown Amarone to serve as a table wine? Don't know about you but on the rare occasions when I do, I carefully choose the dish it will accompany. Do we really want Amarone to shove aside, say, traditional Bordeaux, Burgundy, Rioja, Barolo and Chianti as our models for everyday table wine?

And how are New World winemakers* "balancing" the alcohol? By increasing extraction, leaving more residual sugar and upping the oak regime, not to mention increasing their reliance on high-tech wizardy. Many of these wines taste like what they are: concoctions, confections, not refreshments.

_________

*Perhaps "new wave winemakers" would be the better term, since a number of Old World winemakers are adopting the style. Le Pin, anyone?

[Adam Balic]

Carswell - I agree with your points. Infact I once asked a winemaker how they managed to get such high alcohol wines when the yeast shouldn't survive >14%. He said that the just 'chucked a few more handfuls in' and that the fresh yeast survived enough to bump up alcohol content a notch or two.

In principle, I can't see while perfectly good wine couldn't be make with a higher percentage of alcohol, there are plently of examples of good wine (Amarone, Rhone, Shiraz), but in practice.... And also this is going to depend on the particular wine/grape variety in question too.

But at the end of the day, it is the variety of wines that interest me and I am against things that increases that amount of homogenous blah wines.

[primowino]

Just a quick addition to the discussion. I have nothing against getting a bit tipsy over dinner (drinking and driving is never a consideration), but my main qualm against some high alcohol wines is that they don't have the body or depth of flavour to balance the alcohol. So, as examples, I am quite happy to drink full-bodied syrah/shiraz at 14-15% whether from the Rhone or Australia, but I have never found Zinfandel or Pinot Noir that can handle these levels without being pretty nasty (to me).

[ademello]

...I am quite happy to drink full-bodied syrah/shiraz at 14-15% whether from the Rhone or Australia, but I have never found Zinfandel or Pinot Noir that can handle these levels without being pretty nasty (to me).

←

Since you seem to enjoy "hedonistic" wines, try a Carlisle, Turley or Martinelli zinfandel and you'll change your mind. The same goes for Robert Biale, whose Zins are very Rhone-like. Also check out Carol Shelton and Chalone Vineyards. Off the top of my head I don't recall the alcohol % of A. Rafanelli zins but they are also very balanced. The downside is that the best, highly extracted high-alcohol zins also tend to cost a fair bit more ($40-$75+ USD) but they are more of an "experience" than other wines in the same price range. Another (big) problem is that if you're not located in the US, most of these wines are hard if not impossible to find.

If you've never tried a Martinelli Pinot noir (15%+ alcohol) you are certainly missing a lot.

[Rebel Rose]

It's interesting that this thread was started over a year ago, and the issue of high alcohol is still a "hot" topic in other threads.

After re-reading the material here and noticing Brad's comments about our viognier, I wandered over to the "label library" and picked out a few. Interestingly enough, for the last three vintages, the Rhone whites have always been our highest table wines.

2002 Dove Pond Vineyard Syah 13.6%

2001 Menage (Bordueax-esque blend) 14.2%

2003 Hansen Vineyard Cabernet Sauv. Reserve 14.4%

2003 Jimmy's Vineyard Syrah 14.4%

2002 Benito Dusi Old Vine Zinfandel 14.7%

2002 Cujo Zinfandel 14.8% (This is our massive, high alcohol fruit bomb)

2004 Hansen Vineyard Viognier 15.2%

2004 Starr Ranch Roussanne 15.4%

Interesting that in our area, the Rhone whites are much more powerful than the zins--from the vineyards we source from, anyway. Of the whites, I prefer the roussanne, and of the reds, the Old Vine Zin. ::shrug::

[Rebel Rose]

The San Francisco Chronicle features a trilogy of articles this week on higher alc. wines . . .

Body heat: Rising alcohol levels change wines' taste

In the 1970s, red wines under 12 percent alcohol by volume were common. Today, even white wines are rarely that low in alcohol. Zinfandels higher than 16 percent are no longer outliers. And the expected "standard" level for varietals like Chardonnay and Pinot Noir has crept from below 13 percent a couple decades ago to over 14 percent today.

Is this a problem?

Ssh! Vintners turn down the heat quietly

He maintains that alcohol reduction is more akin to music than mathematics. He can reduce a wine's alcohol to practically any percentage the winery wants. But he says each wine has a number of alcohol-percentage "sweet spots," akin to the tuning of guitar strings, where the wine tastes best. Until samples at different alcohol levels are produced and tasted, there's no way to predict where the sweet spots will be.

Booze may be boosted by vines' roots

Almost every wine grapevine in the world is a Frankenstein plant. It's possible that the scientists responsible for them have unknowingly created high-alcohol-producing monsters.

How do you feel about de-alcoholized wine? Do you think that late picked fruit can be manipulated into tasting perfect? Or does manipulation overshoot the 'sweet spot'?

[Rebel Rose]

It seems this topic is heating up . . .

Current article in the Wine Enthusiast, Wines on Steroids:

The argument can be made, quite rightly so in this writer’s opinion, that high-alcohol fruit bombs obliterate the very qualities that characterize the world’s truly great wines: nuance and terroir. When fruit is ripened to extreme levels, the resulting wines may be sweet, smooth and concentrated, but gone are all traces of everything else: mineral, leaf, herb, spice and the razor sharpness that firm, natural acids bring. Delicate and complex aromas? Terroir? Not in these wines. How about some more new oak instead? The cult of ripeness knows no boundaries.

However, on April 25th, Robert Parker posted an interesting list of alcohols from wines that he had lab-tested for accuracy. This list demonstrates that not all wines in the 1970s were gentle 12% quaffers--at 14+% they were pretty hefty, although certainly not the 15% and 16% wines that can be found today.

1956 Charles Krug cabernet-13.31

1968 Heitz Martha's Vineyard cabernet-13.57

1970 Gloria-13.36

1971 Leflaive Puligny-Montrachet Pucelles-13.95

1972 Mount Eden chardonnay-14.94

1973 Leflaive Batard-Montrachet-14.04

1973 Maladiere Chablis-Vallauris-13.30

1971 Chante Perdrix CNDP-14.86

1971 Ridge Coast Range Carignan-14.13

1973 Freemark Abbey cabernet-13.94

1969 Remoissenet Beaune Greves-13.41

1972 vogue Musigny VV-13.60

1972 Dujac Clos de la Roche-13.83

1972 Dujac Clos St.Denis-14.14

1972 Grivot Clos Vougeot-14.11

1972 DRC-La Tache-13.20

At the recent conference on terroir at U.C. Davis, one of the reasons put forth for higher alcohols is the so-called emergence of super-rootstocks. (Warning: plug for my blog) I address the issue in a post on The Frankenvine Theory.

This might certainly be a factor in the uneven vineyard race to bring all elements of the vineyard to fruition at the same time—sugar, pigment, tannin, ripe seeds, flavor—but what about wines produced from vineyards that have not been planted or extensively replanted in the 1990’s?

I did a little googling on a few established and old vine vineyards that are currently producing some pretty powerful wines. In older vintages, critics seldom included alcohol percentages in the review, which complicates things. Nevertheless, I found a few comparisons:

1980 Ridge, Dusi Vineyard, Paso Robles 12.9%

1992 Ridge, Dusi Vineyard, Paso Robles 14.9%

1993 Peachy Canyon, Dusi Vineyard, Paso Robles 15.1%

1993 Turley, Dusi Vineyard, Paso Robles 15.9%

1995 Rosenblum, Sauret Vineyard, Paso Robles, 13.9%

1995 Peachy Canyon, Dusi Vineyard, Paso Robles 14.6%

2000 Rosenblum, Sauret Vineyard, Paso Robles 15%

2002 Ridge, Dusi Vineyard, Paso Robles 14.8%

2003 Turley, Ueberroth Vineyard, Paso Robles 15.4%

2003 Turley, Pesenti Vineyard, Paso Robles 16%

2003 Turley, Dusi Vineyard, Paso Robles 16.5%

What do you think is the reason for the apparent rise in alcohol in California wines—is it due to critics’ scores? Is it due to modern technology, allowing winemakers to pick very late and then de-alcoholize the finished wine? Is it a plot on the part of wineries to let the fruit hang until dehydrated, thereby reducing the weight of the grapes so they can cheat vineyard owners on the tonnage price?

[JohnL]

Funny but the writer of the article referenced doesn't provide many specifics.

He rails a lot-- but what specific wines is he talking about?

Also the piece does note that alcohol is a complicated subject that needs to be put into context--yet the piece goes on to make some unsupported claims for eg--"high alcohol wines don't age well..."

What wines--Amarones?-- Australian Shiraz?-- Southern Rhones?--Priorat? --California--Napa or Sonoma? --which wines from which vintages?

Also the comparisons are silly--California Cabernet is grown, for the most part, in an entirely different climate than Bordeaux!

It is not just high alcohol or just ripeness--a balanced wine will not "show" its alcohol content.

I also wonder if all these people who "long for the good old days" of California wines really "remember" these wines.

Are they really saying that most california wines today are inferior?

My recollection is that a large number of California wines from the sixties and seventies were often under ripe or lacked healthy fruit and were hugely tannic and many dried out--sure one can point to a handful of magnificent wines but there are literally hundreds more wines produced today with healthier fruit.

Let's not even talk about the many poor vintages in Bordeaux in the sixties and seventies and the unclean brett laden wines and unripe even green tasting fruit--

Might it be possible that modern viticulture and viticulture is enabling riper fruit to be picked and better cleaner wines to be made? Riper tannins healthier fruit? Could this be the reason we have had so many more "good" vintages in the eighties and nineties?

Really what exactly is the point of all this hullabaloo?

Sure there are a lot of wines produced where the alcohol intrudes and leaves an unpleasant burn--these are not good wines....

But let's face it--California--Napa especially, is not Bordeaux, it is often quite hot, grapes ripen to degrees greater than many places in the world.

So too are parts of Australia and Chile and Spain and.....

Could this also be another possible factor--more wines from warmer climates available today?

There's a good and interesting discussion possible here if we can get past the "fashionable agenda and conclusions" that seem to lie just under the surface.

Edited May 8, 2006 by JohnL (log)

[Rebel Rose]

Christian Miller at Full Glass Research has published some excerpts of his industry research findings, along with his comments. There are plenty of interesting nuggets on this site, although you may have to really dig in to discover them.

Christian's site does not, unfortunately, offer specific URL's for each essay. Click on "Article Archives" and scroll about halfway down to find the comments quoted below, along with hard statistics. But if you're not in a hurry, you may want to take the time to read his other essays as well. Very enlightening and balanced--and grounded in professionally-conducted studies.

1) Claims that the consumer (or a majority of consumers) wants this or that style miss the point that a large number of consumers are willing to purchase a variety of wine styles. 

2) The biggest difference may be between consumers who believe and follow reviews and those who don’t, rather than their differences between which reviewer and what wine style to follow. 

Even many sophisticated consumers have much to learn about the relationship between alcohol, ripeness and wine flavors. And we in the business have much to learn about consumers’ preferences too. For now, the main point is not to panic over the alcohol and ripeness issue. There is no clear sign yet of a consumer backlash against the long hangtime style, but there is no reason to believe that you can’t sell lighter, less ripe and more “elegant” styles of wine either.

One of the things I found particularly evocative in his recent report on zinfandel is that 17% of hard core wine geeks would drink zinfandel with a "gourmet dinner at home," but 51% of the same group agree that zinfandel "complements a wide variety of food."