Merits of barware

[Ed Hamilton]

Here are three that Riedel offer depending on your price point.

From the Riedel Overture line, Item # 408/19

From the Riedel Vinum line, Item # 416/71

From the Riedel Sommeliers line, Item # 4400/71

They're the same glasses that they recommend for cognac.

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I've tried a lot of the Riedel cognac and single malt whisky glasses, but they are generally too small at the opening to appreciate the fuller flavors of aged rum, especially aged rhum agricole.

[eje]

Hey there, some time ago, Mr. Alchemist posted the following in the You might be a cocktail snob/geek if... topic:

When you go shopping for shakers you have to go to a couple of stores to get the right Winco/Johnson Rose combination.

Johnder asked what the correct combination of shakers might be.

Having (happily) run across a Winco 30oz shaker the other day, I am hoping that part of the equation might be correct.

In any case, the Winco 30oz works much better than the rather more expensive WMF boston shaker I had been using. I think the thicker steel of the WMF might actually be a disadvantage.

[thirtyoneknots]

Had not previously noticed this thread, but since it got bumped up I'll weigh in with my 2 cents.

My favorite glasses for home use are a set of Nachtmann 24% crystal coupette-style glasses I picked up for $3/each (didn't know at the time how great a bargain that really was). They are tiny by modern standards, about 3 oz, but the shape means they can fully contain a 3 oz cocktail since it has a defined lip. I was recently able to replace dumb breakage losses from the same source, so now I actually have a set of 6 and one spare. Before I got those, my favorites were a pair of tiny standard V shaped glasses someone gave me to pay a debt once. They say Crown Royal or something on them and are also tiny. I really prefer what most people would consider to be an extremely small cocktail glass, which allows the drink to remain ice-cold, lets me try more than one thing in an evening and still be productive, and saves money on liquor, since it gets used up slower. I have a handful of larger glasses, but of the dozen cocktail glasses I have, 2/3 of them hold 3 oz or less.

I actually became extremely fond of the coupette shape over the V shape, I like the traditional feel of it and it's a little harder to spill also.

-Andy

[Nathan]

I'm sure this betrays my complete amateur status...but I use a set of metal cocktail glasses from Sur La Table. so long as you hold them correctly they hold their temperature very well, and they are virtually unbreakable...besides looking stylish.

as for a shaker, I confess to using a standard julep shaker -- which works just fine for me...

[maureen b]

I'm sure this betrays my complete amateur status...but I use a set of metal cocktail glasses from Sur La Table.  so long as you hold them correctly they hold their temperature very well, and they are virtually unbreakable...besides looking stylish.

as for a shaker, I confess to using a standard julep shaker -- which works just fine for me...

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The thought of drinking from a metal cocktail glass seems kind of unpleasant to me.

I treated myself this Christmas to a set of iittala Aarne cocktail glasses. They are v-shaped with a short, stumpy stem. I tried them out with an Aviation, which fit perfectly in this size glass.

[Mayur]

I've heard people assert that metal shakers make for a colder drink, usually citing the fact that metal is a much better thermal conductor than glass.  While it is true that metal is a better thermal conductor than glass, this should actually make a metal shaker worse, not better, at chilling the drink -- as it more readily conducts heat from the surrounding environment (your hands, for example) into its contents.  If this is, in fact, true -- and I won't believe it until I do the experiments myself -- it likely has something to do with glass shakers having a greater thermal capacity compared to metal shakers.  This being the case, a pre-chilled glass shaker should actually perform best.

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Except, of course, that then you're making cocktails with a heavy, slippery, iced-up glass shaker, which does *not* seem so fun! Dilemmas, dilemmas...

I prefer the "v" glasses myself, only because I like straight lines. (Modernist to the core, I guess.) I like 'em thin, fine, crystalline, and about 5 oz. in size. Coupettes are, however, MUCH more practical in terms of containing drink spillage.

[thirtyoneknots]

I've got nothing against V glasses, but sipping a Manhattan from these wonderful coupettes is so Guilded Age :-P

[Bricktop]

For the last few weeks, I have been drinking my cocktails out of champagne flutes. I read it somewhere (but I don't remember where), and I like the way the drinks look in them.

[mjr_inthegardens]

Can I get mini shakers (8 oz) in Chinatown rest supply?

Any ideas? I'd really like to pick a couple up.

thx

MJR

[Kent Wang]

How about sterling silver barware? Are they a pain to maintain? Can I run them through the dishwasher. This site has some mixed responses, slightly in favor of the dishwasher, if done right.

I've been thinking about getting an antique sterling stirring spoon off of eBay.

[slkinsey]

A silver stirring spoon isn't too hard to keep clean by hand, so I wouldn't worry about it. I have an ancestral silver stirring spoon, and use it every time I make a stirred cocktail.

As for shakers... Good luck finding an affordable solid silver shaker (which is what is generally meant when one says "sterling silver" instead of "silver plated") with a decent design for shaking.

Anyway... a few things about silver shakers, which as chance would have it is an area in which I have some experience:

1. Silver has extremely good thermal conductivity -- better even than copper. A solid silver shaker is going to have some weight to it, which means that the thermal capacity of the shaker will be at least as high as the thermal capacity of a glass-and-metal Boston shaker, and most likely a good bit higher.

This means that it is the worst possible material to use if your shaker is at room temperature. The shaker will have a high thermal capacity to conduct into the liquid, and due to having excellent conductivity, will be very efficient in conducting that thermal energy into the liquid.

This also means that a heavy solid silver shaker is an excellent choice if the shaker will be pre-chilled by being frozen in the freezer. In this case, the good thermal conductivity and large thermal capacity are working in your favor by efficiently conducting plenty of thermal energy out of the liquid instead of into the liquid as it would with a room temperature shaker.

2. My experience is that running silver through the dishwasher (especially using standard dishwasher detergent and especially if there are other metals in the dishwasher) will at best dull the silver after a few washes and at worst will severely tarnish the silver. The effect will depend on the composition of the silver ("sterling silver" is an alloy). Better to simply wipe down the silver with a bar towel and give it a light swipe with a silver polishing cloth at the end of the evening.

Edited January 4, 2008 by slkinsey (log)

[Kent Wang]

Thanks, Sam. I'll post a pic here when I find one I like.

BTW, I noticed that the bar at Jean Georges uses silver (not sure if solid or plate) Boston shakers, unchilled.

[brinza]

I use a three-piece shaker that has a heavy wall design. I'm not sure if it's double-walled but it doesn't feel cold in my hand (which means it's not transferring any heat from my hand into the container), however, it does get extremely cold inside since the strainer top (which is not as thick as the tin) becomes heavily frosted over after a thorough, vigorous shake.

I'm also a glassware nut. Finding room for it all is become a very real problem. I haven't put much effort into acquiring any antique pieces (although I do have a few that have been donated by family members), I just like to buy whatever strikes me as different and fun. I do go for the smaller glasses too, and although I still like the V cocktail glasses, I prefer smaller ones. I have two old-fashioned glasses (not double!) that are from an Irish cream gift set and I treasure them. They are no more than 6 ounces (maybe even less) and I use them regularly. I hate the 10 or 12 ounce DOFs, but try to find anything smaller . . .

You know you are glassware fanatic when:

a) deciding what to drink is a two-stage process: choosing a cocktail; and choosing the glass

b) you have some money burning a hole in your pocket and you can't decide whether to go into the liquor store or the kitchen/home store to buy more glassware.

[Chris Amirault]

Another glassware fan here, though I favor vintage, not new.

You know you are glassware fanatic when:

a) deciding what to drink is a two-stage process: choosing a cocktail; and choosing the glass

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This seems particularly true if you start with the glass, e.g., "I haven't used those Lake George Tiki Motel hurricane glasses in a while...."

[arctan]

Hey there, some time ago, Mr. Alchemist posted the following in the You might be a cocktail snob/geek if... topic:

When you go shopping for shakers you have to go to a couple of stores to get the right Winco/Johnson Rose combination.

Johnder asked what the correct combination of shakers might be.

Having (happily) run across a Winco 30oz shaker the other day, I am hoping that part of the equation might be correct.

In any case, the Winco 30oz works much better than the rather more expensive WMF boston shaker I had been using. I think the thicker steel of the WMF might actually be a disadvantage.

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could someone comment on the winco/johnson rose combo? why are two different brands used together? what size is each? weighted/unweighted and why would you chose one over the other?

i was just looking to get a couple of new shakers. your advice would be appreciated!

[Ari Pappas]

Stores open to the public in the San Francisco area would be ideal; but, online is OK, too.

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East Bay Restaurant Supply in Oakland had a wide variety of pourers last time I was there, all very cheap. Cash and Carry, right around the corner, also has quite a few.

[Alchemist]

Hey there, some time ago, Mr. Alchemist posted the following in the You might be a cocktail snob/geek if... topic:

When you go shopping for shakers you have to go to a couple of stores to get the right Winco/Johnson Rose combination.

Johnder asked what the correct combination of shakers might be.

Having (happily) run across a Winco 30oz shaker the other day, I am hoping that part of the equation might be correct.

In any case, the Winco 30oz works much better than the rather more expensive WMF boston shaker I had been using. I think the thicker steel of the WMF might actually be a disadvantage.

←

could someone comment on the winco/johnson rose combo? why are two different brands used together? what size is each? weighted/unweighted and why would you chose one over the other?

i was just looking to get a couple of new shakers. your advice would be appreciated!

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The brands then selves don't matter as much as how they fit together. There should be a solid 1.5-2 inches between the top of the big shaker and the bottom of the little shaker when they are fitted. The seal should be good when you give the top of the little shaker a good smack with the heel of your hand. If you try a few different ones you will see a difference.

Check the gague of the shakers. Some are thicker than others. I like the thicker ones as the thin ones wear out (maybe not such a problem for home bartender) and they also cut my middle finger right where it joins the palm. Also probably not much of a problem if you shake with two dry hands, instead of jackerhammer with one raisined one.

Also, I like the ones that snap when you open them. The little giants don't but most people I know prefer them.

Toby

[arctan]

The brands then selves don't matter as much as how they fit together.  There should be a solid 1.5-2 inches between the top of the big shaker and the bottom of the little shaker when they are fitted.  The seal should be good when you give the top of the little shaker a good smack with the heel of your hand.  If you try a few different ones you will see a difference.

Check the gague of the shakers.  Some are thicker than others.  I like the thicker ones as the thin ones wear out (maybe not such a problem for home bartender) and they also cut my middle finger right where it joins the palm. Also probably not much of a problem if you shake with two dry hands, instead of jackerhammer with one raisined one.

Also, I like the ones that snap when you open them.  The little giants don't but most people I know prefer them.

Toby

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thanks for the reply!

unfortunately, i am unable to buy tins locally so i'm planning on ordering them online. that was why i was wondering about brands. i'm looking at the ones on http://www.barproducts.com/ at the moment. does anyone have any comments on their tins or even their company in general?

Toby, for the long bars of ice that you use in the dark & stormy at TVH, are the bars made by the kold draft machine? do you use some sort of tray? is there some poor barback going at a block of ice with a saw? i've had no luck finding any sort of ice trays (or similar) that can do a similar ice bar. i've only been able to find the ice square trays. does anyone know of a source?

[eje]

thanks for the reply!

unfortunately, i am unable to buy tins locally so i'm planning on ordering them online. that was why i was wondering about brands. i'm looking at the ones on http://www.barproducts.com/ at the moment. does anyone have any comments on their tins or even their company in general?

Toby, for the long bars of ice that you use in the dark & stormy at TVH, are the bars made by the kold draft machine? do you use some sort of tray? is there some poor barback going at a block of ice with a saw? i've had no luck finding any sort of ice trays (or similar) that can do a similar ice bar. i've only been able to find the ice square trays. does anyone know of a source?

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I have ordered from barproducts many times and find them to be a fine resource, prompt shipping, good products.

I can't speak for Toby in regards spear ice at The Violet Hour, but I do know that Heaven's Dog, here in San Francisco, after failing to find anything suitable at the container store, had custom plastic ice trays built for spear ice to fit in tall glasses. It would be difficult, to nearly impossible, to cut an ice spear thin enough.

Though we do use big fat square hand cut cubes for drinks in rocks glasses.

[arctan]

I have ordered from barproducts many times and find them to be a fine resource, prompt shipping, good products.

I can't speak for Toby in regards spear ice at The Violet Hour, but I do know that Heaven's Dog, here in San Francisco, after failing to find anything suitable at the container store, had custom plastic ice trays built for spear ice to fit in tall glasses.  It would be difficult, to nearly impossible, to cut an ice spear thin enough.

Though we do use big fat square hand cut cubes for drinks in rocks glasses.

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i'm curious about the custom ice trays, where do you even go for something like that? is there a market for custom trays or cube, bar, and spherical ice? i found one place that sold spherical ice trays, but the spheres were only 2" or so. i would think that 2.5 or even 3 would be a better choice.

[bostonapothecary]

I have ordered from barproducts many times and find them to be a fine resource, prompt shipping, good products.

I can't speak for Toby in regards spear ice at The Violet Hour, but I do know that Heaven's Dog, here in San Francisco, after failing to find anything suitable at the container store, had custom plastic ice trays built for spear ice to fit in tall glasses.  It would be difficult, to nearly impossible, to cut an ice spear thin enough.

Though we do use big fat square hand cut cubes for drinks in rocks glasses.

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i'm curious about the custom ice trays, where do you even go for something like that? is there a market for custom trays or cube, bar, and spherical ice? i found one place that sold spherical ice trays, but the spheres were only 2" or so. i would think that 2.5 or even 3 would be a better choice.

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right now i'm into the 8 and 16 oz. shaker tins from barproducts.com they are thin and probably will wear out quickly but are cheap enough.

they solved my problem of other bartenders not wanting to put enough ice into their drinks with larger shakers and the ice being poor quality in the first place. we make 3 oz. straight spirit drinks and 4 oz. citrus. the shaken citrus drinks comes out with perfect dilution for us.

the faux cold draft cube trays are awesome and if you could afford to buy enough of them i'm sure you could perfectly remove some of the separators with an exacto knife.

[John the Barman]

I have ordered from barproducts many times and find them to be a fine resource, prompt shipping, good products.

I can't speak for Toby in regards spear ice at The Violet Hour, but I do know that Heaven's Dog, here in San Francisco, after failing to find anything suitable at the container store, had custom plastic ice trays built for spear ice to fit in tall glasses.  It would be difficult, to nearly impossible, to cut an ice spear thin enough.

Though we do use big fat square hand cut cubes for drinks in rocks glasses.

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i'm curious about the custom ice trays, where do you even go for something like that? is there a market for custom trays or cube, bar, and spherical ice? i found one place that sold spherical ice trays, but the spheres were only 2" or so. i would think that 2.5 or even 3 would be a better choice.

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I have used the spherical ice trays and the produce horrible ice. Apparently ice is not meant to freeze in a sphere. The best sphere i've seen comes from the japanese sphere maker that you can see on youtube and their web site. It costs too much for anything over 30mm though. One day....

[marty mccabe]

If you're in Boston, check out Adam at The Boston Shaker. He's got a great selection of barware, bitters, etc., and a willingness to find it for you if he doesn't have it.

If you're not in Boston, well, bug him to get his webstore up and running...

[bmdaniel]

I have ordered from barproducts many times and find them to be a fine resource, prompt shipping, good products.

I can't speak for Toby in regards spear ice at The Violet Hour, but I do know that Heaven's Dog, here in San Francisco, after failing to find anything suitable at the container store, had custom plastic ice trays built for spear ice to fit in tall glasses.  It would be difficult, to nearly impossible, to cut an ice spear thin enough.

Though we do use big fat square hand cut cubes for drinks in rocks glasses.

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i'm curious about the custom ice trays, where do you even go for something like that? is there a market for custom trays or cube, bar, and spherical ice? i found one place that sold spherical ice trays, but the spheres were only 2" or so. i would think that 2.5 or even 3 would be a better choice.

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I have used the spherical ice trays and the produce horrible ice. Apparently ice is not meant to freeze in a sphere. The best sphere i've seen comes from the japanese sphere maker that you can see on youtube and their web site. It costs too much for anything over 30mm though. One day....

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I use the SFMOMA ice sphere molds - I think they work pretty well. Are these the ones you're talking about and why don't you like the ice?

[arctan]

right now i'm into the 8 and 16 oz. shaker tins from barproducts.com  they are thin and probably will wear out quickly but are cheap enough.

they solved my problem of other bartenders not wanting to put enough ice into their drinks with larger shakers and the ice being poor quality in the first place.  we make 3 oz. straight spirit drinks and 4 oz. citrus.  the shaken citrus drinks comes out with perfect dilution for us.

the faux cold draft cube trays are awesome and if you could afford to buy enough of them i'm sure you could perfectly remove some of the separators with an exacto knife.

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i'm surprise that no one makes a tray to make ice bars