James Chatto--Compromised Critic?

[Steve Klc]

I found this interesting:

http://www.ryerson.ca/rrj....to.html

[Jinmyo]

Yes, very interesting. I've seen his book around. Never read Toronto Life. Now I'll probably pick up both.

[Fat Guy]

The article isn't particularly coherent in terms of presenting a thesis that I could argue against -- though I'm sure if it did make a point I'd disagree with that point. But to clarify one error: I follow the Canadian food media as closely as any American (i.e., I sort of read stuff once in awhile), and based on what I've read the best food writers in Canada are -- among others -- Lesley Chesterman (Montreal Gazette), Murray Macmillan (Vancouver Sun), and John Gilchrist (Calgary-based freelancer and CBC radio critic). I've never even heard of this other guy.

[SteveW]

I've known the name of James Chatto for many years. Known him for his food writing work in Toronto Life magazine. More recently, James authored a book in late-1998 titled the "Man who ate Toronto:memoirs of a food critic." Don't know how much he's respected, beyond what is written in the Ryerson Review article.

Concerning Lesley Chesterman. To mainly inform eGullet members outside Montreal, she just came out with a book titled "Flavourville", which is subtitled Lesley Chesterman's Guide to Dining Out in Montreal. The heart of the book, is the fine dining restaurant reviews, that originally appeared for her weekly review column in the Montreal Gazette newspaper. Lesley when warranted has updated these reviews, & probably revisited many of these restaurants for the book. In addition, she has added totally new shorter reviews of casual Montreal restaurants.

Flavourville first came out in Montreal, the first week of May. I discovered the existence of the Flavourville book by accident, when I found out through one of the featured Montreal restaurants in the book(just after the first week of May). I was aware that Lesley was planning this type of book, but didn't realize it would come out so soon.

Flavourville seems to have distribution in the United States & the rest of Canada. Lesley herself, I'm sure could fill in more details about the book.

------------

Steve

[Steve Klc]

Of course, it doesn't hurt when a "food writer" is also a talented pastry chef, as Lesley is.  Not just a "baker," a "baking authority" or a "baking journalist," but a real pastry chef. Her "Baking & Pastry: Basic Techniques," (Macmillan Canada, 2000) written with her pastry chef husband Bertrand Bazin, has just been brought to my attention and I've now had a chance to explore it.

Every eGulleteer at all interested in dessert should buy this slim affordable book immediately.

 

It is, quite simply, the most concise, accessible, beautiful, helpful introduction to French pastry techniques--with the best step-by-step action photos I've ever seen--currently available.  It rivals the masterful "Roux Brothers on Patisserie" (1986) as the best single volume French pastry source in print.

I wish I had written it.

At 126 pages, with recipes in weight and volume, tons of color photos, the Chesterman/Bazin book is far superior, in impact and value, to the leaden, wordy, repetitive, recycled, simplistic, unrefined "In the Sweet Kitchen" by Regan Daley. (Which, of course, won the IACP Cookbook of the Year award.)

How Lesley's book has been allowed to fly under the radar up to this point is embarrassing.  Shame on Macmillan Canada for dropping the ball and not fully realizing the value of what they have.  Perhaps they should headhunt whomever was responsible for pr on Sweet Kitchen. That person is a genius.

[Lesley C]

OK you guys I'm totally blushing here...

When it comes to Mr. Chatto, I have to admit I've never heard of him. I just can't trust a restaurant critic who writes for a magazine (all fluff, little honesty).

Also, Toronto may now have a Williams Sonoma, but, considering the size of the city, it doesn't have much of a restaurant scene (I look forward to Steven Shaw's upcoming report to see if things have evolved).

I think it's fair to say that Joanne Kates, Lucy Waverman, Bonnie Stern, Cynthia David, Elizabeth Baird, and the wonderful Anne Lindsay are the big names in food writing in Toronto.

To Steven's list of Canadian writers I'd include Julian Armstrong, the Food Editor of the Montreal Gazette.

[robert brown]

Lesley, are you implying that Toronto has more good restaurant reviewers than good restaurants?

[Lesley C]

Of that list, only Kates is a restaurant critic.

[Angrychef]

My God, my first posting and you may come to understand my monikor.  All restaurant critics are crap.  That is as delecate as it can beput.  Politics is rife in the world of publishing as well as criticism.  What gave Kates, Chatto , et. al. to be the dictators of good taste.  What a quick trip through GBC, or some other school, a short but mediocre career in the real world of cooking or just some writer who has eaten out on the company tab enough times to become the "expert."  Kill 'em all and let Palladin, Clark and that French guy sort them out. (Apologies to those fallen comrades that we didn't have room to list.)   Realistically, the best food critics and writers are those that have a good writing style, generally one all their own and not someone elses, if they can criticise a chef for lack of creativity they should be held to the same standard.  That is the funniest thing about all of this is that most critics get respect via the media outlet they work for, whereas a chef must earn it by his own right.  Even if the public thinks these people are great, they still must earn the respect of their peers.  And to those of you not in the industry,  there are plenty of big name chefs (and critics probably fit into this as well)  that do not have the respect of their peers and it is not always professional jealousy.  Just as a disdain for a foodwriter, or all food writers is sometimes warranted.  Until my next rant.  Take care and than you for letting me crash the party :wow:

[Steve Klc]

A few specifics angrychef would be nice.  Rants are, of course, welcome but evidence and argument and specifics even better.

There's no politics amongst chefs?  We band of brothers, we noble few? Chefs don't network among their peers, pad their resumes, get other chefs to open doors for them, steal recipes and ideas--oops, are inspired by other chefs, promote their buddies at the expense of the truly talented?  When did chefdom become an altruistic meritocracy?

All critics crap?  Hardly.  Critics eat out ALOT more than working chefs--and more than a few critics are knowledgeable, erudite and fair.

You write if critics "can criticise a chef for lack of creativity they should be held to the same standard." Well, here at eGullet they are.  We criticize the food writers as well as chefs, restaurant policies, cookbook writers and the diners themselves.

You also write "the funniest thing about all of this is that most critics get respect via the media outlet they work for, whereas a chef must earn it by his own right."  Well, that doesn't prevent any of us from discussing the merits of what appears in print from the New York Times to Gourmet magazine, from Toronto Life magazine to French and Spanish websites.

In our online world you have to earn respect from your content--whether it is on the page or on the plate.  There are no sacred cows around here.  

However, I've seen alot of media respect conferred upon untalented but media-savvy chefs working at famous properties--who buy alot of product--completely out of step with their actual ability and creativity.  It clearly works both ways.

I guess it seems I disagree with just about everything you said--and how you said it angrychef--but it's not personal and I hope you continue to post, rant some more even, and that you engage us all--as we will you.

[Alan A. Vernon]

OK you guys I'm totally blushing here...

When it comes to Mr. Chatto, I have to admit I've never heard of him. I just can't trust a restaurant critic who writes for a magazine (all fluff, little honesty).

Also, Toronto may now have a Williams Sonoma, but....

It's quite clear that you know very little about Toronto's Dining Out circuit. And although I might agree that Toronto Life may be more about fluff than unbiased constructive criticism (they only give ratings of fair and better; not giving readers a chance to see what critics deem as bad provides no basis for comparison -- alas, a sales scheme which has worked for them -- i think they just celebrated three decades of publication), James Chatto is a good writer -- which in the end is what makes a good food critic. I mgiht not agree with al he says, but hey, it's all about opinion.

In the last year, Toronto has opened restos on par if not better than what cosmo cities like Chicago, New York and even Montreal have to offer. When was the last time you came by for a bite at Susur, Rain, North 44, The Fifth, Avalon, Axcess, et al.

I have been on the food scene in Toronto for close to 10 years -- so I am surprised not to see my name up among those illustrious Toronto food writers. Check out this link for a sampling of what Toronto has to offer - the good, and yes, the bad and the ugly:

http://www.toronto.com/search?....or_id=2

And let's not try to take ourselves too seriously. Remember, food criticism is purely subjective. As long as a food review is written in an entertaining fashion, and gives the reader a fair idea of what to expect -- then the writer has done his/her job well.

P.S. Mrs C: If you havent, in fact, heard of James Chatto, how do you know he works for a magazine?

[Lesley C]

Mr Vernon,

Toronto Life is a magazine no?

I'm sorry I haven't heard of you either. You probably haven't heard of me.

I just listed the Toronto writers I either know or have read. Honestly, no harm meant.

If you want to discuss Toronto vs. New York, Montreal or Chicago feel free to start a new thread. I will be happy to participate. But I'm not going to be the one get that touchy subject off and running.

[Steve Klc]

Alan--anyone who has read this thread knows Toronto Life is a magazine. (Thanks to SteveW.)

Dig up a few old threads here on the Canada board--where we (Lesley included) discussed the Toronto food and wine scene months ago--and assessed it rather positively.  I was one of those people very impressed with Toronto and NOTL--not even considering the very favorable US/CAN price to value comparisons--and took several trips there in the past year and a half.  My wife bought her wedding dress from Adele Wechsler, a terrific Toronto designer, and I'm addicted to icewine.  Here's the link:

http://forums.egullet.org/ikonboa....;t=5586

How'd we do Alan?

And Alan--you really think being a good writer makes one a good food critic?  Sorry, around here you'd find serious disagreement.  That's unintentionally one of the funniest things I've read in a while.  

It's not all about opinion--and some opinions are more valid than others.  And as far as being taken too seriously, well, some people do know what they're talking about--you might be one of them--and the discussion forum of eGullet is the perfect, timely, public vehicle to assess who does and who does not.

Lesley raised a valid issue for me which transcends the border between our countries--one which you seem to reinforce--that magazine restaurant reviews/criticism are possibly compromised, inherently, by the form, which depends on advertising to a greater degree than newspaper criticism?

Perhaps you could join several of the threads we have on the subject of critics on other boards--unless you'd prefer to consider Canadians in isolation or you've written and covered the Toronto scene for so long and in such depth that you don't get to eat in Chicago, SF, NY, Paris, France or Spain to have a rounded picture.

Do tell which Toronto restaurants opened in the past year "on par if not better than" cosmo cities like Chicago and New York?  Are you comparing new (less than one-year old) Toronto restaurants to new NYC restaurants or new Toronto restos to the best NY has to offer?  I'm not sure--either way, name names please. 

Right now I read more than a tinge of home-town defensiveness in your reply and that's not what most of us here are about.  I am sure Lesley did not intend to slight you.

We here in the States have too many good writers who are much better at writing than they are knowledgeable about food, chefs and restaurateurs, unfortunately.

[Lesley C]

Please allow me to take back the comment about the restaurant scene. Of course you have a restaurant scene. But when I think of Toronto I think pro sports and big business, not food. Now when I think of Montreal, I think of food -- certainly not sports or big business!

In a way, it has nothing to do with individual restaurants but an overall food scene (off the top of my head, I can't think of one dish or ingredient associated with Toronto). But I'm just talking about a general impression I have of the city. Feel free to put me in my place if I'm mistaken.

[Jinmyo]

Now when I think of Montreal, I think of food

I think of traffic.

edit full disclosure: Oops, forgot original intent by the time I got down here. Congratulations on your book, Leslie. I'll look for it at Chapters.

[Angrychef]

Now don't get me wrong people, my single biggest problem ith the food critic is who gave them the right to be the dictators of good taste.  Christ, if someone else published the same sort of opinions in relation to various sensitive issues they would be branded rascists, sexists or some other moniker based on who they offended.   What gives these people the right to have such a strong influence into the success or failure of an establishment based on their singular opinion.  Beyond an explanation how often does a food critic explain how it is they decide a review should go.  Was the steak a little chewey.  My God, it was 14.95 for an 8 oz. strip, of course its chewy, its A or at best AA.  How many of them look at what they are reviewing as a singular unit.  Does it achieve what it set out to do, is it value for money, is the foos good and the service lacking or vice versa, pls. explain.  Criticism or fawning fo rpersonal taste personal preference is unacceptable, if you are to be the explainer and purveyor of popular taste then look at it from that outlook.  Is the restaurant what it pruports to be, does it achieve its goal?  So what if it is average (place whatever dish you want)  How good is it in relation to the competition, if you want to criticise then do so, but please add some context.  

 It is not that I dislike food critics I look forward to reading the reviews, they bring an understanding to food for myself, but I know people in the industry both throughout N.AM. and in England so if I were to read a horrific review I am aware of certain writers biase, I can understand or talk to fr4iends to further understand.  Not everyone has this luxury!  I have no idea what any of you do for a living,  on some level I could care less.  All I know is yes there are bad chefs, bad owners, bad magrs, bad business palns, just about bad everything in this industry and every other.  My biggest problem is that not all critics are in it because they love food, care about value for dollar or any of those things that bring customers to restaurnats and keep them coming back.  Read "Dining Out" by7 Dorenburg and Page, particularly if you are coming up as a chef or food critic.  It is important I think to someone on either side of the coin.   And back on track, as the E.S.C. of a fine dining restaurant in T.O. it is best that I don't name names and fill in the balnks.  What I put is not hard to find out if you ask around, I did, how do you think I found out.

[Fat Guy]

Angrychef, when a restaurant gets a bad review and goes out of business the chef often blames the critic. But often it's just that the restaurant sucked, and the critic pointed that out.

Sure, there are good and bad critics, and good and bad journals in which they write, but to lump them together as a monolithic block with unearned and unjustifiable power is just, well, it just sounds angry. It's as silly as saying that all chefs are interested in is cutting costs and selling the oldest ingredients in their kitchens as daily specials. It's a stereotype. It's neither true, nor true in the majority of cases -- it's just true of a few losers who give everybody else a bad name because the stereotype gets perpetuated, it plays on people's fears, and so they choose to believe it. So give us a break.

Alan, I've seen your (good) stuff on Toronto.com, but I'm not familiar with your other work: What else are you doing? Tell us more and please forgive our ignorance. Also, I'm headed to Toronto very soon so am very happy to accept recommendations (though probably best to make them in a new thread), especially ones that haven't been covered on other threads on this board. Thanks.

[Angrychef]

Ok, no slagging anyone today. Fatguy if you are coming to Toronto then I think I can help you with a few suggestions.  The obvious choices are Avalon (Chris McDonald),  Senses (Claudio Aprile,  the time he spent with Nobu, and running Bali Sugar really show through and the fact that he works in a Dean and Deluca type food shop helps, a broad range of products used in a very creative and suprisingly coherent manner), Hiro Sushi is always good (opt for the Omakase, I would be suprised if you were disappointed), if you have transport Sushi Kajii is equally impressive.  Didier LeRoy at the Fifth is another good chef plying his trade but you may find it difficult getting a res.  One of my favourites is True Grits (Southern Accents is equally good if you want more upscale.  And of course there are the ethnic restaurants of which T.O. has quite a few good ones.  Try the Barbeque Hut on Gerrard East, I have yet to be disappointed.  Queen of Sheeba is very good Ethiopian if you want something different.  What do you want high-end or just good.  Allen's on the Danforth has decent food in a great room, if the weather is nice the patio is spectacular.  Try the Bamboo for good caribbean and another great patio.  Albert's  and the Real Jerk are also good. Hopefully these help, and I will ask around at work to see where my co-workers like to eat when not working.

[Lesley C]

Angrychef, you left out some pretty big names: North 44, Susur, Centro, Canoe. Any reason?

I've heard great things about Didier LeRoy for years now. He can be seen on Canadian TV promoting the upcoming Coupe du Monde (he looks a bit like a long-haired Raymond Blanc).

[Patrice]

I went to both, Susur and Senses recently.  I was a little bit deceived by Susur, we had his backward degustation menu ( you start with the main course and finish by the soup and then desserts) some courses were really great ( foie gras with poached pear with mustard and lime jelly) but others ( like the desserts) weren't good at all.  It's still a must in Toronto.  On the other hand, Senses was really really great.  Inventive menu and very well executed food.

[Angrychef]

Hey Fatguy didn't want the obvious, that is all.  Susur, is inventive but I to often hear that people are disappointed in relation to the prices.  (Goes back to that food critic thing, is it value for dollar)  Centro, sure why not I have friends that work there and know the new chef,  he is a great guy, but I have not eaten there since the change took place mor have I spoken to any of my friends that work there since the change.  Try something new, Crush is good, price points are high in relation to portions but the chef there was Didier's sous for quite some time.  Richler in the Post enjoyed his meal, and he is an angry French Cdn. assesing a Japanese chefs French cooking.  Could'nt be all bad.  If the prices are high who cares Cdn dollars are monopoly money compared to greenbacks.  I asked at work  and Zucca is very good as well as is Dipalmas ( I've probably spelt it wrong, but damn is the BBQ good!    Oh well I am tired and must work the next 2 weeks straight so this will be a short bit.

[Bux]

Now don't get me wrong people, my single biggest problem ith the food critic is who gave them the right to be the dictators of good taste.  ...

I suppose the people who follow them slavishly are the ones who give them the ability to be the dictators of good taste. My guess is that restaurant crtitics are no different from TV critics, movie critics and book critics. Lots of critically acclaimed work goes unseen or unread and lots of stuff the critics have derided makes a bundle for its creators. Of all the things people have taste in, I think food is the one we all profess to know and know what we like. Consequently, I doubt many people are as influnenced by reviews as they are by their friends, who are probably less fit to make recommendations, but with whom they probably share tastes.

It's true that a certain segment of our society will listen to critics about a new restaurant, and that a journal of some stature in other fields--news reporting for instance--will confer some respectability on a critic, I'm not sure it lasts long or carries much weigh unless a restaurant had been unable to develop some word of mouth before the reviews hit, yet most restaurants want to be reviewed as soon as possible, taking the risk of a bad review against the value of just a mention with address and phone number. Being ignored seems a harsher fate than a bad review.

I'm annoyed and offended when I read a bad review of a restaurant that deserves a better one, and I'm concerned for the morale of the staff who deserve public praise not criticism, but I'm not worried that a loyal clientele will stop dining. Possibly because I see no purpose to a bad review, I'm more interested in reading the good ones. I'd rather tell people about where they should go to eat, than tell them where to avoid. Mostly, I'd hope a review will tell diners how to get the most out of eating at the restaurant and direct the right diners to the right restaurants. Taste in food can be highly subjective, although surely there are standards of sorts even if they vary between certain types of restaurants.

[Fat Guy]

Bux you've said many times here and elsewhere that you're against negative reviews. And I strongly disagree: Though I prefer both reading and writing positive reviews, I think there are numerous situations in which a negative review is not only justified but also necessary, and I think a critic who refuses to say anything negative ever is neither a critic nor a journalist. Should we start a thread just on that issue and put the matter to rest once and for all?

[Steve Klc]

Could it be Bux only meant he was against reading a "bad review of a restaurant that deserves a better one" and not against all negative reviews?

[Fat Guy]

I don't think so -- "I see no purpose to a bad review" seems pretty unequivocal to me -- but let's ask him:

Mr. Bux, what say you?