Ponzu

[torakris]

I have only tried to make ponzu a couple times in the US with "American" recipes. These recipes usually call for lemon juice and I was always disappointed with the final taste as it wasn't what I was looking for. If someone has a great recipe I would love to hear it!

[torakris]

This is my new ponzu of choice.

Aojiso ponzu (flavored with green shiso)

[Hiroyuki]

I have only tried to make ponzu a couple times in the US with "American" recipes. These recipes usually call for lemon juice and I was always disappointed with the final taste as it wasn't what I was looking for. If someone has a great recipe I would love to hear it!

←

Sorry, ojisan, I don't have one.

I should have said, "ponzu-like, instant sauce", made with fresh yuzu juice, instant dashi powder, and soy sauce. These ingredients alone are OK with me, but my wife insists that vinegar be added.

You can find one recipe that seems decent here (Japanese only).

[JasonTrue]

Ponzu is really little more than soy sauce, citrus juice, sometimes vinegar, and optional soup stock. Since my nabe usually is konbu-based I find it's enough to just use the liquid that comes from the nabe whenever you put something in your ponzu bowl, so I rarely add any additional dashi. You should also add fresh zest of some citrus (yuzu or bitter orange would be nice), or yuzu ichimi (dried yuzu peel).

The bottled ponzu often has additional ingredients. Some manufacturers I've talked with use daidai (bitter orange, like Seville orange), especially if they're from Shizuoka; some use yuzu, some use sudachi. Many use some obnoxious combination of additional "amino acids" (read: msg) and ambiguous flavorings meant to simulate dashi while simultaneously being too bitter to come from a normal concentration of dashi.

However, some people actually expect that obnoxiousness

Yuzu ponzu or yuzu+daidai ponzu are my favorites. I would just seek out yuzu juice made without salt or preservatives. There's nothing wrong with lemon or lime, it just doesn't taste very Japanese. This time of year you can get seville oranges in the US, so give that a try if you can't find bottled 100% yuzu juice.

Kumquats (kinkan) can be nice, but they produce even less juice than yuzu. However, thinly sliced kinkan may produce some of the magic that yuzu peel offers.

Mexican limes (aka Key Limes) might be a worthwhile alternative.

http://www.ripetoyou.com/ has yuzu sometimes, and seville oranges more often; this time of year, the yuzu won't have more than a few drops of juice, but the skin might be fine.

[torakris]

This week's flyer for my Co-op has a product from Tenyo called shio ponzu (salt ponzu).

Has anyone ever tried this before?

Tenyo's homepage doesn't list the product but I did find a couple other places that make it.

[Blether]

I'm a big fan of ponzu too (though I think I'll be bold here and assume Yuki's bottle is finished up by now ).

If I can make one observation about ponzu in general, yuzu, like other citrus fruits, has its aromatic character concentrated in the outer part of the rind - the zest. If you juice a fresh yuzu, you'll find the juice alone doesn't have that much character. The same is true of (at least) natsumikan, lemon and lime. (Sweeter fruits like oranges and tangerines / mandarins have more aromatic juice). So my guess would be that to get a proper 'yuzu' character in ponzu you'd need to incorporate the zest in the recipe somehow - and the same technique should make an ersatz lemon-or-other home-made concoction a good deal more reminiscent of the real thing. My assumption is that shop-bought yuzupon has had the zest included somehow. No ? Yes ?

As for other uses for ponzu, has anyone else noticed its affinity for butter ? It works for de-glazing / sauce-making after frying something in butter (of course also with oils in stir fries as has been said), and makes a beautiful job of mushrooms done like this (my original idea - at least, in my experience it is ):

Ponzu-bata- hoiru yaki

(Foil-baked ponzu-butter mushrooms)

- butter a piece of foil

- lay on mushrooms of your choice (cheap'n'cheerful maitake are my standard - each head cut into 4 or 5 pieces)

- season lightly with fresh-ground black pepper

- drizzle with ponzu

- seal and bake (about 12 minutes at 220C)

Mm-mmm

Writing this has put me in mind of another idea, too...

(Edit for 'spellig')

Edited February 5, 2007 by Blether (log)

[JasonTrue]

Yuzu juice has character, but I still think my ponzu isn't finished until I've grated a bit of zest into it.

Butter and soy sauce are a fairly good combination, and I think some acid would work with many dishes for which butter-soy sauce tastes good, so ponzu-bata makes sense to me.

In Seattle, maitake tend to be about as expensive as shiitake, or sometimes even more expensive than that. Enoki are also surprisingly expensive, though not outrageous. I do like enoki-bata a lot.

Edited February 4, 2007 by JasonTrue (log)

[Blether]

Hi, Jason. Yeah, that's it - it cuts the butter nicely and brings in most or all of the salt the food needs - at the same time the butter tames the fierceness of the shop-bought ponzu.

Maitake - wow - though I'm guessing that means they're about the same price as in Tokyo, and the shiitake and others are at a sensible, similar price level. The Japanese veggie market has its peculiarities of course (bows in direction of nearest JA office).

Maitake, when they came on the market in quantity here, were very much touted as 'the next big thing', for being cheap and good - and they have stayed cheap.

I'll always eat enoki, then they'll get stuck in my teeth - again ! - and I get all grumpy

Edited February 5, 2007 by Blether (log)

[torakris]

I have moved the rest of the mushroom talk to (big surprise here!) The mushroom thread!

ponzu, guys, ponzu

[GlorifiedRice]

Does plain bottled Ponzu (the green stuff) need to be refrigerated?

[Hiroyuki]

Does plain bottled Ponzu (the green stuff) need to be refrigerated?

←

What does the label say?? I would put it in the fridge.

[GlorifiedRice]

I cant read Japanese...

Its this Ponzu, not the soy/ponzu

http://www.japancentre.com/?cmd=itm&cid=&id=995

Edited February 18, 2007 by GlorifiedRice (log)

[JasonTrue]

Just like any other juice and most sauces, you should refrigerate it after opening.

I cant read Japanese...

Its this Ponzu, not the soy/ponzu

http://www.japancentre.com/?cmd=itm&cid=&id=995

←

[torakris]

This is my new ponzu of choice.

Aojiso ponzu (flavored with green shiso)

←

Now I found this one

Ume-shiso ponzu

Now I can't decide which one I like better. I had this with some cold boiled gyoza a couple days ago and the kids loved it.

[nduran]

I like to mix equal parts ponzu and sake in an atomizing spray bottle and give a baked satsumaimo a few spritzes. Extremely subtle taste but I've never had anyone say they didn't like it.

[shinju]

Ohhh, umeshiso and aojiso ponzu - I haven't seen those in US yet. Torakris, would you say the ume/shiso and aojiso taste is quite pronounced or more subtle? If I can't find them, I was thinking about making one up.

[torakris]

Ohhh, umeshiso and aojiso ponzu - I haven't seen those in US yet.  Torakris, would you say the ume/shiso and aojiso taste is quite pronounced or more subtle?  If I can't find them, I was thinking about making one up.

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It is neither subtle nor pronounced which is probably why I love these so much. It is just perfect.

I bet you could get a similar taste though by adding some umeboshi paste to a simple ponzu.

[Hiroyuki]

I have only tried to make ponzu a couple times in the US with "American" recipes. These recipes usually call for lemon juice and I was always disappointed with the final taste as it wasn't what I was looking for. If someone has a great recipe I would love to hear it!

←

Sorry, ojisan, I don't have one.

I should have said, "ponzu-like, instant sauce", made with fresh yuzu juice, instant dashi powder, and soy sauce. These ingredients alone are OK with me, but my wife insists that vinegar be added.

You can find one recipe that seems decent here (Japanese only).

Now I have one recipe, as I described in my blog.

Citrus juice, soy sauce, and mirin ratio of 5:5:1 to 2

plus as much katsuobushi and kombu as you want (the more the better).

My recipe is based on these sites, among others:

http://www.fushitaka.com/ponzu.html

http://www.bistro-shoji.gr.jp/room/ponzu.html

[torakris]

Thanks Hiroyuki! I think I might give that a try once I finish off my huge bottle from Costco. How long do you think it will last in the refrigerator?

[Hiroyuki]

Thanks Hiroyuki! I think I might give that a try once I finish off my huge bottle from Costco. How long do you think it will last in the refrigerator?

Considering the fact that many people let their ponzu stand for months before use, I would say that it will keep in the fridge for at least months.

The first site I linked to says that people let their ponzu stand for 110 days on average before use.

I tasted my ponzu a little while ago, and I could tell the distinctive flavor of natsumikan. I hope my ponzu will turn mellower in months, but I may use it up by that time.