The Modern at MoMA

[docsconz]

I have yet to dine at The Modern and while its reputation is very good, I don't really hear anyone discussing at as a truly special restaurant. Alinea is and was the restaurant I expected to get the award with it possibly being beaten by Robuchon (I haven't eaten therre either, but others I know have raved about it). It strikes me as being a very conservative choice and maybe controversial because of it.

[Jason Perlow]

I haven't eaten at Alinea yet (a situation I hope to rectify within a few months) but I've eaten at The Modern twice so far. It strikes me, however, that Alinea by virtue of being Avant-Garde style dining doesn't constitute a "meal" in as much as an "experience" in the traditionalist sense of what constitutes fine dining. I would be hard pressed to say one could walk out of Alinea being completely satisfied from the perspective of a "meal".

You also have to factor in the reality that James Beard at the end of the day is a New York based institution where the power base and influence resides -- hence a choice like Modern. As to why Atelier de Joel Robuchon NYC didn't get it... Well, Ducasse didn't exactly wow them from Day 1, either, if I recall.

Edited May 9, 2006 by Jason Perlow (log)

[Pan]

I haven't eaten at Alinea yet (a situation I hope to rectify within a few months) but I've eaten at The Modern twice so far. It strikes me, however, that Alinea by virtue of being Avant-Garde style dining doesn't constitute a "meal" in as much as an "experience" in the traditionalist sense of what constitutes fine dining. I would be hard pressed to say one could walk out of Alinea being completely satisfied from the perspective of a "meal". [...]

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But Jason, you don't really know yet, because you haven't had a meal there yet. I'd like to hear from you after you do.

[docsconz]

I would be hard pressed to say one could walk out of Alinea being completely satisfied from the perspective of a "meal".

I wouldn't.

You also have to factor in the reality that James Beard at the end of the day is a New York based institution where the power base and influence resides -- hence a choice like Modern. As to why Atelier de Joel Robuchon NYC didn't get it... Well, Ducasse didn't exactly wow them from Day 1, either, if I recall.

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This choice certainly smacks of a NYC bias, which in an organization that purports to be national in scope is wrong. Now maybe The Modern deserved the award. I really can't say since I haven't been myself. The reason I haven't been though is that I have been underwhelmed by the mass of the reports I've heard - not so much that it is not good, just not particularly compelling. As for Robuchon, it was his Las Vegas flagship restaurant that was nominated, not a NYC based Atelier. The Mansion has received glowing reports so far and based on those was what I thought would be Alinea's biggest competition. The bottom line though is that I now need to go to The Modern and judge for myself.

[Jason Perlow]

I haven't eaten at Alinea yet (a situation I hope to rectify within a few months) but I've eaten at The Modern twice so far. It strikes me, however, that Alinea by virtue of being Avant-Garde style dining doesn't constitute a "meal" in as much as an "experience" in the traditionalist sense of what constitutes fine dining. I would be hard pressed to say one could walk out of Alinea being completely satisfied from the perspective of a "meal". [...]

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But Jason, you don't really know yet, because you haven't had a meal there yet. I'd like to hear from you after you do.

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No, I don't know yet. I've just seen pictures of stuff like peeled grapes on a wire and I'm assuming I might need a slice of pizza at Geno's or Lou Malnatti afterwards. I have a morbidly large appetite, you know.

Edited May 9, 2006 by Jason Perlow (log)

[Fat Guy]

Why is anybody assuming the Beard judges ate at the restaurants in question, or that their decisions had anything to do with food quality? Is it because that's what a legitimate, ethical awards process with standards would involve? The Beard restaurant awards are all about politics and reputation. And by taking them seriously, one lends support to a bad process.

That said, the Modern is an outstanding restaurant. Those who are underwhelmed by the reports may very well be listening to the wrong reports.

[Jason Perlow]

That's certainly something to consider, Steven.

I agree also that the Modern is an outstanding restaurant and Gabriel Kreuther is extremely talented. The question though is did they really evaluate it or any of the others on their actual merits, or was it politically motivated, as you suggest.

Edited May 9, 2006 by Jason Perlow (log)

[TAPrice]

Why is anybody assuming the Beard judges ate at the restaurants in question, or that their decisions had anything to do with food quality?

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Why are you assuming that they did not? Could you present some evidence.

[Jason Perlow]

Todd, pipe down man. John Besh got his props as best Southeast chef at August. We should all be happy.

Edited May 9, 2006 by Jason Perlow (log)

[jesteinf]

No, I don't know yet. I've just seen pictures of stuff like peeled grapes on a wire and I'm assuming I might need a slice of pizza at Geno's or Lou Malnatti afterwards. I have a morbidly large appetite, you know.

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If you go to Alinea and do the Tour with wine pairings, and are still hungry...I will personally buy you a pizza afterwards.

[docsconz]

That said, the Modern is an outstanding restaurant. Those who are underwhelmed by the reports may very well be listening to the wrong reports.

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while the reports I have been listening to have not panned the restaurant, I haven't really seen anything that made me yearn to be there. i have no doubt that the food is excellent.

As for the Beard Foundation, my understanding is that after their recent troubles they have been trying very hard to clean up their image. I will be in a better position to ascertain the validity of this award after I dine at the Modern as Jason will for himself after he dines at Alinea.

[Fat Guy]

Why is anybody assuming the Beard judges ate at the restaurants in question, or that their decisions had anything to do with food quality?

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Why are you assuming that they did not? Could you present some evidence.

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When I last saw a ballot, I recall my amusement at voting for the Best Southwest category, for instance "Oh yeah....I heard of him. I guess HE'S the best. I don't know these other guys."

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[Jason Perlow]

Yeah, I'm curious as to why the heck Bourdain would be voting in a southwest category anyway. You'd think that strictly people with regional expertise would be chosen for those committees.

[TAPrice]

Why is anybody assuming the Beard judges ate at the restaurants in question, or that their decisions had anything to do with food quality?

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Why are you assuming that they did not? Could you present some evidence.

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When I last saw a ballot, I recall my amusement at voting for the Best Southwest category, for instance "Oh yeah....I heard of him. I guess HE'S the best. I don't know these other guys."

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That proves it. Everyone is corrupt.

So a guy who built his reputation as a bad boy behaved badly as a James Beard judge. Do you have more evidence that the other judges didn't eat at these restaurants?

Edited May 9, 2006 by TAPrice (log)

[Fat Guy]

A process that allows people to vote on restaurants they haven't visited is corrupt.

[TAPrice]

A process that allows people to vote on restaurants they haven't visited is corrupt.

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No, it's just imperfect. Life is full of shades of gray.

Would you require that judges submit receipts with their ballots?

[Jason Perlow]

I think part of the problem, Steven, is we don't actually KNOW how restaurants are actually chosen in these categories and who votes on them. The process itself is a black box. All the participants are sworn to secrecy, aren't they?

[Fat Guy]

A process that allows people to vote on restaurants they haven't visited is corrupt.

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No, it's just imperfect. Life is full of shades of gray.

Would you require that judges submit receipts with their ballots?

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Todd, the point isn't that the judges are lying about having dined at the restaurants. The point is that the rules, at least the published ones I've seen, don't require them to dine at the restaurants.

http://www.jamesbeard.org/old/awards/policies.html

[Fat Guy]

Award nominees and winners are selected by secret ballot by their industry peers. More than 400 food and beverage professionals vote. Each judge is assigned to vote in one or more award categories, based on his or her areas of expertise. An outside accounting firm handles tabulation. Winners receive a bronze award medallion etched with the image of James Beard.

http://starchefs.com/james_beard/2003/html/gala.shtml

[TAPrice]

Ok, fair enough. I just scanned the rules, but I don't see an explicit requirement that people eat in the restaurants. To be fair, though, the rules don't say much of anything.

How does this play out in practice? Are there other rules and bylaws that govern the actually judging process? Is there tradition that governs it?

I guess we could compare it to the Oscars, where people must view a certain number of films to vote in the minor categories. The main categories, however, do not have this requirement.

Surely we have an eGullet member who could weigh in on this with personal experience. Anybody out there previously serve on the awards committee.

[Fat Guy]

For some reason, they've never asked me!

[Jason Perlow]

Are there other rules and bylaws that govern the actually judging process? Is there tradition that governs it?

That's where the "black box" comes in.

[Fat Guy]

Here's my guess at what goes on inside the black box:

"Hmm, Alinea, I hear the food there is weird and that guy Grant Ay-shats seems kind of cocky. No way a restaurant in Vegas can be good. Danny Meyer, now that guy is a mensch, and everybody says that French dude is a good guy. The pictures I saw of the restaurant look really nice. The Modern. Check."

Actually it's probably a little different because that ballots contain more choices and both the nominees and winners come out of that larger pool. If it's anything like the journalism awards, the nominees aren't actually nominees. Rather, they're the top three choices listed in random order, and then the top choice from that same selection is announced at the awards ceremony. It's a way of getting extra PR out of the same process. Clever.

[oakapple]

"Hmm, Alinea, I hear the food there is weird and that guy Grant Ay-shats seems kind of cocky. No way a restaurant in Vegas can be good. Danny Meyer, now that guy is a mensch, and everybody says that French dude is a good guy. The pictures I saw of the restaurant look really nice. The Modern. Check."

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Even if the rules allow people to vote on that basis, I'd be curious to know to what extent they actually do. I like to think that most people have some integrity. Yes, there could be some pure "good guy" votes in there, but it doesn't mean they all are.

[Fat Guy]

I don't think it's a question of integrity on the parts of the judges. As far as I can tell, this is what the judges are being asked to do. The Beard Foundation isn't paying to send them to all these restaurants. There are probably only a handful of people in the world who have dined at Alinea, the Mansion and the Modern (I don't actually know a single person who has), and of that handful few are likely to be Beard Award judges. So it's a popularity contest, not an evaluation of food.

Did the Mansion even open in 2005, by the way?