Weekend in Phily

[birder53]

Hubby and I will be spending December 10 - 12 in Philly. It's been over 25 years since my last visit, so things have changed. I'm turning to all you Philly egulleteers for help with dinner recommendations for Friday and Saturday night. We're interested in great food without "jackets required". We're staying at Penn Center and have a car if we need to drive. I've been browsing the threads and I see Fork and Django as favorites. Any suggestions? I'm sure I need to make reservations as soon as possible since the holiday dining/party season is upon us.

Also, where to go for great cocktails? Thanks!

[MarketStEl]

Hubby and I will be spending December 10 - 12 in Philly.  It's been over 25 years since my last visit, so things have changed.   I'm turning to all you Philly egulleteers for help with dinner recommendations for Friday and Saturday night.  We're interested in great food without "jackets required". We're staying at Penn Center and have a car if we need to drive.  I've been browsing the threads and I see Fork and Django as favorites.  Any suggestions?  I'm sure I need to make reservations as soon as possible since the holiday dining/party season is upon us.

Also, where to go for great cocktails?  Thanks!

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You're staying in one of the Penn Center apartment houses, or in the Crowne Plaza across the street from 10 Penn Center? Anyway, if you are staying in that part of Center City, you should be able to keep your car parked while you're here and walk/take SEPTA/use cabs to get wherever you're going. Pull out the car only if you want to head to Manayunk.

I can't really comment on great places to dine out without dressing up, as I've not eaten at many of the recent arrivals on the restaurant scene. Though if it's a scene you're looking for, you could do far worse than to have cocktails at either of the Continentals--the Continental Mid-town is near your hotel, at 18th and Chestnut; the livelier nightlife scene is around the original Continental at 2d and Market (Market-Frankford Line to 2d Street station). All kinds of trendy martinis on the menu at both, and decent (but not fabulous) food to go with them.

If you go to Old City (2d and Market vicinity), I have eaten at Philadelphia Fish and Company in the past and believe it is still as good now as it was then. (Philadelphia Fish and Company: 204(?) Chestnut Street, opposite the Customs House.) Fork and Paradigm--both more recent arrivals that have generated a lot of buzz--are in the 300 block of Chestnut.

[Muffin210]

I'm headed to Philadelphia this weekend (December 3-5), so I'm glad this thread got started! Any particular things to look out for at the big market this time of year? Our hotel room has a kitchenette. I'm also hoping to get some shoo-fly pie (or other regional specialties), since my boyfriend has never had Pennsylvania Dutch/Mennonite/Amish food before...

[mrbigjas]

you can get shoofly pie at the terminal. i recommend checking out chloe in old city if you can, and maybe matyson out here in west center city if you can get in. pif is nice and casual, down in south philadelphia. what kind of things are you all into?

[herbacidal]

I don't have any menu suggestions for Fork since I've never been there.

I've also not been to Django since before this fall, so I've never experienced the current menu (they change the menu seasonally at least, and I wouldn't doubt they change things day to day every so often based on what comes in at the market).

The one thing everyone would recommend about Django is that you get the cheese course as one of your desserts. That is the dish that really shows what Django is about, both in the food and the service.

Other than that, the suggestions listed above are good.

I usually tailor dining suggestions otherwise based on whatever cuisines/styles are more lacking in your area.

[birder53]

What are the best holiday sights in Philly? In NYC you head to Rockefeller Center to see the tree and stroll along 5th Avenue. In Philly you...?

As far as dining suggestions, other than a cheesesteak and a hoagie, what would you say are the "regional" specialities of Philly? Coming from my neck of NJ, most of the restaurants are Italian, Indian, Thai and Chinese. We've got great seafood at the shore. When I vacationed in Seattle and environs this year I knew the specialities were salmon, crab and oysters. I want to do Philly justice! I have three lunches, two breakfasts and two dinners to plan. Plain or not too fancy is just fine. The only requirement is no jackets. We're not oppossed to enjoying good Italian, Indian, Thai or Chinese also. Hey - good food is good food. Where is it??

Edited November 30, 2004 by birder53 (log)

[Mummer]

What are the best holiday sights in Philly?  In NYC you head to Rockefeller Center to see the tree and stroll along 5th Avenue.  In Philly you...?

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See the Wanamaker show. It hasn't moved, but now it's at Lord and Taylor across from the SE corner of City Hall. There also is a model train exhibit in the Reading Terminal; you'll be at the adjacent market (RTM) at some point.

There's nothing wrong with a good hoagie or cheesesteak, but when you take your car to John's Roast Pork or Tony Luke's in South Philly, be sure to include a roast pork with sharp prov and greens.

Hollyeats.com is right up your alley re: not too fancy. There are many RTM posts here, I don't need to add another one.

[KatieLoeb]

What are the best holiday sights in Philly? In NYC you head to Rockefeller Center to see the tree and stroll along 5th Avenue. In Philly you...?

Rittenhouse Square looks particularly pretty with all of the colored globe lights up in the trees and I think the Christmas tree might be up by then too. Right now there's a couple of humongous wreaths that look pretty too.

City Hall is some impressive architecture and also has a big tree up in front.

[richw]

my brother described this as one of the best italian-style sandwiches he's ever had in his life http://www.hollyeats.com/Sarcones.htm

rich

[rlibkind]

Birder53: Where are you from? That might help us guide you to Philadelphia specialties and restaurants that may be different from what you see at home.

No matter where you hail from, the RTM is worth a visit (closed on Sundays, closes daily between 5 and 6 p.m., and the Pennsylvania Dutch shops are only there Wed.-Sat; in addition, the Pa. Dutch stands tend to close at 3 p.m. weekdays). Check out its website to whet your appetite: Reading Terminal Market

For breakfast and lunch, the RTM is tops. Among the highlights: Tommy DiNic's roast pork (and beef and veal); Salumeria for hoagies; Bassett's ice cream; the Pennsylvania Dutch Eating Place; the Down Home Diner; Delilah's for fried chicken.

You've got lots of good choices for Italian in NJ, but no reason not to indulge here, too. Let us know if you're interested in red gravy or finer Italian dining and I'm sure the gang here will come up with suitable recommendations.

If you want beer, two spots in particular not far from Penn Center: Monk's Tavern on 16th near Spruce and Locust for lots of Belgian and other beers as well as way above average pub fare (I adore the veal cheeks); and Ludwig's Garten, on Sansom aboujt a block and a half east of Broad, with mostly German brews and a pretty decent jaegerschnitzel.

I also always recommend the Sansom Street Oyster House (Sansom between 15th and 16th), a classic of a type that's hard to find in NJ, even down the Shore. The oyster selection is outrageous, and the fish cookery is basic but perfect. Although the baked and broiled fish are fine, they really know how to use deep fryer to full advantage; if they have fried Ipswich clams, go for them. Oh, and get a cup of snapper soup, too.

Muffin210: For produce you won't find at your local supermarket, hit the RTM on Friday or Saturday, when the Fair Food Project Farmstand is set up at center court; also, on Saturdays, another fine produce vendor, Earl Livengood night still be there (he'll shut down by Christmas for the season). For that matter, the biggest produce vendor at the RTM, Iovine Brothers, always has excellent quality goods, and frequently hard to find and rare items. There is a Pennsylvania Dutch style baker at the RTM, Beiler's, but I find their output pedestrian; if they have shoofly pie, though, I'm sure it will be suitably sugary.

Katie's right on target about Rittenhouse Square being a great place to stroll during the holidays with the beautiful holiday lighting. Another lovely neighborhood during the holidays would be Society Hill where many of the federal style town houses are tastefully decorated. Since you have a car, consider a short trip to South Philly for less tasteful but absolutely exhilarating Christmas lighting; on a number of blocks neighbors hang colored lights across the street. I think Rittner Street is one of them, perhaps on one of the blocks between 3rd and 8th streets, if memory serves me correctly. (Can anyone help here?)

[philadining]

Almost any of the Steven Starr restaurants are unusual enough that I usually try to take out-of-town guests to at least one while they're in Philly. It's an event, almost as much about the setting as what's on the plate, but I've found the food to be pretty solid at most of them, spectacular at some. Buddakan is the classic Asian-fusion thing, Tangerine is Moroccan-inspired, Pod has good Asian fusion food and the decor is amusing, El Vez is upscale mexican, and Morimoto has really great Japanese (try the omakase if you don't mind spending $80 or more per person!) There are others of course, but those are the ones that have been most impressive to my guests in the past, and have had the most consistently good food. Any of his places are good spots for a (pricey) cocktail, and perhaps an app at the bar. All of those spots are a little dressy, but I've never worn a jacket...

I'll second the recommendations for getting a roast pork sandwich, and cruising the Reading Terminal Market, and DiNic's is a good way to do both at the same time. Breakfast or lunch at one of the Amish counters at the Terminal is pretty unique to this area, plain hearty country fare, but fresh and good.

A really good Philly hoagie is a wonder to behold, I favor Sarcone's but there are endless disscussions about this in other topics here, and a valuable reference to these types of eats, as mentioned before, at Holly Moore's site

The South Philly red-gravy restaurants are a truly authentic Philly thing, but probably not all that exotic if you can get homey Italian where you live. Nonetheless, a simple pasta at Ralph's is pretty satisfying (don't bother with the fancy stuff, just get the gnocchi, or ravioli or something like that.) There's better, fancy Italian if you want it, but the simple places are a more specific Philly thing.

Philly has a very solid Chinatown, and Nan Zhou hand-drawn noodles might offer something different than home. Rangoon is really terrific if you don't have Burmese near you.

The big Philly trend in the last few years has been the good, small BYOB. If you can get a reservation at Django, do it (and yes, get the cheese plate). If you can bear waiting around on the street, try Melograno. There are lots more mentioned above, I'm sure folks will post more faves.

if there's something in particular you were looking for, ask, I'll bet someone here knows where to get it!

Edited November 30, 2004 by philadining (log)

[birder53]

Birder53: Where are you from? That might help us guide you to Philadelphia specialties and restaurants that may be different from what you see at home.

I'm from central Jersey.  No spectacular regional food to speak of from this neck of the woods.

I also always recommend the Sansom Street Oyster House (Sansom between 15th and 16th), a classic of a type that's hard to find in NJ, even down the Shore. The oyster selection is outrageous, and the fish cookery is basic but perfect. Although the baked and broiled fish are fine, they really know how to use deep fryer to full advantage; if they have fried Ipswich clams, go for them. Oh, and get a cup of snapper soup, too.

I checked out their website and the oyster selection is amazing! 

[MarketStEl]

Almost any of the Steven Starr restaurants are unusual enough that I usually try to take out-of-town guests to at least one while they're in Philly. It's an event, almost as much about the setting as what's on the plate, but I've found the food to be pretty solid at most of them, spectacular at some.

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Just FYI: The Continental--a former diner at 2d and Market--was the establishment that earned Starr his reputation as a showman par excellence, and he has polished that reputation to a high gloss since.

Let me add another Starr establishment to the "places to go for cocktails" list: El Vez, his high-kitsch Mexican eatery at 13th and Sansom (Market-Frankford Line to 13th Street station; Subway-Surface [Green Line] trolleys to Juniper Street; 21 or 42 buses eastbound on Chestnut to 13th Street). This joint also jumps most every night, and there's room to maneuver there (something you won't find at the Continental on a weekend night). The food there has also gotten good reviews.

Right across Sansom from El Vez is the best frozen dessert you will ever eat--the gelato made by the folks at Capogiro. By all means, wherever else you eat, leave room for this dessert--you'll be so glad you did.

Everything you wanted to know about the Starr Restaurant Organization (Like his restaurants, this Web site is very Flash-y)

Since just about every kind of cuisine Philly has to offer is an "out of the ordinary experience" for you, it appears, let me also suggest you check out the non-Italian places in the vicinity of the Italian Market--Nam Phuong, Pho 75, Cafe de Laos, Ba Le, Rio Bravo, Saigon Maxim, International Smokeless BBQ (Korean), Taqueria Veracruzana and so on. Just keep in mind that at most of these places, you will be going for the food, not the ambience. Of the places I list here, Cafe de Laos is the only one with what I would call an intimate atmosphere; all the others are either large and bright or small and plain. Rio Bravo doubles as a Mexican social hub for the neighborhood.

[KatieLoeb]

Click HERE for a schedule of Holiday events around town. Rittenhouse Square Christmas tree lighting and such are listed, a small map is available and information about transportation.

The Philadelphia Holiday Festival Website is laid out in an easier to read fashion.

Happy Holdiays! Enjoy!!

[rlibkind]

I'm from central Jersey.  No spectacular regional food to speak of from this neck of the woods.

Duh! I shudda just looked at the info under your handle on the message!

[Muffin210]

Muffin210: For produce you won't find at your local supermarket, hit the RTM on Friday or Saturday, when the Fair Food Project Farmstand is set up at center court; also, on Saturdays, another fine produce vendor, Earl Livengood night still be there (he'll shut down by Christmas for the season). For that matter, the biggest produce vendor at the RTM, Iovine Brothers, always has excellent quality goods, and frequently hard to find and rare items. There is a Pennsylvania Dutch style baker at the RTM, Beiler's, but I find their output pedestrian; if they have shoofly pie, though, I'm sure it will be suitably sugary.

Thanks, everyone, for the suggestions! I am looking forward to checking out the RTM, and we're going to Morimoto for dinner on Friday night (I'm a big Iron Chef fan...). We're from Los Angeles, so the whole Penn Dutch-style cuisine is sort of a novelty -- what else is typical (and available) other than shoofly pie? The produce will probably be quite different too -- people here are still trying to give away the citrus fruits growing on their yard trees! I really miss blue crabs (California is dungeness crab territory) -- can you get Maryland-style steamed blue crabs in Old Bay seasoning in Philadelphia?

[philadining]

I really miss blue crabs (California is dungeness crab territory) -- can you get Maryland-style steamed blue crabs in Old Bay seasoning in Philadelphia?

I STILL find myself suggesting to friends that we go to Walt's, before remebering that it's been closed for years...

There's still DiNardo's at 3rd and Race, but that place was never a favorite with my crowd, I haven't gone in years. And I think they get their crabs from Louisiana or something, so although they're pretty similar to Maryland crabs, it's not exactly an East-Coast experience.

I can see the desire for a change of pace, but I'd trade a tray of blue crabs for a garlic roasted dungeness at Crustacean any day!

But there's got to be some good crabs around Philly. I sense a new topic starting...

Edited November 30, 2004 by philadining (log)

[KatieLoeb]

But there's got to be some good crabs around Philly. I sense a new topic starting...

DiNardo's has some of the rudest service I've ever experienced. I love their crabs when friends buy a bushel to eat on the deck of their lovely beach house, but 'd rather go almost anywhere than DiNardo's to eat them in house.

Bonk's or Byrne's Tavern, both in the Port Richmond section of town and an easy exit off of I-95 have fine crabs and are still serving them at this time of year. Neither place is big on ambiance, although some might argue "early dive" is it's own sort of ambiance , but the crabs are probably exactly what you're jonesing for. Do a bit of Googling for reviews or check back threads in the PA forum. It's definitely been discussed.

I second Bob's recommendation of the Sansom Street Oyster House. Great fresh raw bar, a real old school Philly Fish House and the food is delicious and reasonably priced. No Maryland Crabs, but definitely have Alaskan King Crab legs or the best oysters ever. Soon to have a new and improved wine list too, I hear...

[rlibkind]

...so the whole Penn Dutch-style cuisine is sort of a novelty -- what else is typical (and available) other than shoofly pie?  The produce will probably be quite different too -- people here are still trying to give away the citrus fruits growing on their yard trees!  I really miss blue crabs (California is dungeness crab territory) -- can you get Maryland-style steamed blue crabs in Old Bay seasoning in Philadelphia?

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For Pa. Dutch, you have got to have SCRAPPLE. See another recent thread on this board for everything you didn't want to know about scrapple. (Briefly, scrapple is a loaf made from corn meal and/or other grain mush cooked with portions of pig left over after butchering and herbs, which is served by being sliced and fried crisp in fat.) At the RTM, you can have it as your breakfast "meat" to go with your eggs at either the Pennsylvania Dutch Eating Place or the Down Home Diner'; I prefer the Down Home Diner's rendition. Traditionally it's covered with your choice of ketchup or maple syrup; if it's good scrapple (crisp on the outside, creamy inside), I don't think it needs either.

Remember the "Dutch" in Pennsylvania Dutch is a corruption of Deutsche, i.e., German. Think heavy German foods with American ingredients prepared by thrifty farm families who waste nothing and you've got the essence of Pennsylvania Dutch cookery. Good stuff, but hardly light. The pork store at the RTM has a decent selection of Pennsylvania Dutch cold cuts, including Lebanon bologna. There are also fresh baked soft pretzels at another Pa. Dutch stand (Fishers) at the RTM.

Any number of taverns serve Maryland-style blue crabs. In the downtown area, DiNardo's (Race near 3rd St., as I recall) would be one choice; I'm certain there are others. But I'm not sure if this is really crab season. Generally they are more plentiful in the summer.

Local produce is pretty much done for the season, with the exception of root and cruciferious vegetables, i.e., potatoes, rutabaga and turnip, beets and chard, collards, kale, broccoli, cauliflower, etc. Certainly no more local fruits other than some late season apples.

[KatieLoeb]

The pork store at the RTM has a decent selection of Pennsylvania Dutch cold cuts, including Lebanon bologna.

They also have "Sweet Lebanon" bologna that I've been making as grilled cheese sandwiches along with their hot pepper cheese or horseradish Cheddar. Yeah baby - that's good eatin'!

There are also fresh baked soft pretzels at another Pa. Dutch stand (Fishers) at the RTM.

Fisher's pretzels are simply not to be missed if one finds oneself at the RTM. It's what every soft pretzel wishes it was. And they're still warm out of the oven, brushed with real butter and sprinkled with coarse salt. A pretzel gets no better than this rendition. Anywhere.

[katbert]

It seems like the breakfast places are being slightly neglected so I'll trot out the usual suspects: Sabrina's at 9th & Christian, not too far from east Center City. They are probably best known in PHL for breakfast served during all hours (monster stuffed challah french toast, consistently best home fries ever, and a pretty extensive menu), but they also offer a regular (& interesting) byo dinner menu. Casual bright fun cheery atmosphere (if you're not seated in the first room by the main door). If you decide to go on a Sunday morning make sure you call ahead to get your name put on the list and then check in at the counter when you get there. I think I'm going there this Saturday.

10th Street Pourhouse on 10th between Locust & Spruce Sts: even more casual with a smaller and less diverse menu than Sabrina's, slightly coffeehouse feeling, only open am- early afternoon, but good.

Carmen's Country Kitchen @ I forget- 11th & Wharton? Not so convenient to Center City but maybe worth a visit if you're looking for creative brunch made from stuff bought locally and recently. Is couscous in your omelette too creative? You decide. Note that you are restricted to 4 options only (waffle/pancake (same batter, different format), omelette, french toast, lunchy/meaty item (eg. ostrich/salmon/frog legs/conch)). There's another thread somewhere in here all about Carman's. Also tres casual. Can we do accents in here? Also probably a good idea to call beforehand for reservations since there's <20 seats. Note that it can get pretty cold in Carman's b/c the door is Right There.

[mrbigjas]

I don't have any menu suggestions for Fork since I've never been there.

I've also not been to Django since before this fall, so I've never experienced the current menu (they change the menu seasonally at least, and I wouldn't doubt they change things day to day every so often based on what comes in at the market).

i was at django tonight, and it was frickin fabulous. that is all.

Edited December 2, 2004 by mrbigjas (log)

[mrbigjas]

Since you have a car, consider a short trip to South Philly for less tasteful but absolutely exhilarating Christmas lighting; on a number of blocks neighbors hang colored lights across the street. I think Rittner Street is one of them, perhaps on one of the blocks between 3rd and 8th streets, if memory serves me correctly. (Can anyone help here?)

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13th between tasker and morris, too.

[mrbigjas]

crabs are done for the season. any blue crabs you get anywhere now are flown up from the gulf.

however, it seems to me that blue crabs are pretty much blue crabs and it doesn't matter where they're from. people may call me a heretic, but i certainly haven't noticed much difference between chesapeake bay crabs and gulf crabs (and since i haven't heard that they're in such bad shape in the gulf, it's probably preferable to get them from there rather than the chesapeake, where their numbers are ridiculously low).

anyway, another recommendation: chickie's and pete's, up in... (wissinoming? tacony? what IS that neighborhood anyway?) or in the northeast, or down by the stadium, have great crabs.

[tonguesandwich]

It seems like the breakfast places are being slightly neglected so I'll trot out the usual suspects

there was a philadelphia sunday brunch buffet in a Hotel restaurant that was discussed a couple months ago in these forums... i can't find it for the life of me. Does anyone know what the name of the hotel was? The hotel and the brunch seemed pretty famous locally.