Wine cellar

[A Balic]

Back in Australia, I have about 150 bottles of wine stored. These have been lovingly collected over the years and as in most cases the bottles are singles (ie. no two of the same wine, I was student when most of them were collected), so the tend to get taken out on special occasions, which means that some are drunk to early, some to late. At the moment this wine is being aged for about 5 years from time of purchase to consumption, I would like to aim for 10-15 years.

I have been starting to think the minimum size for an effective wine cellar. My thoughts are that about 500 bottles would be about right, the time it would take to work thought the wine, would mean that there would be a minimum of about four years turn over, with some thought I think it would take me out to ten years.

In terms of minimum number of bottles of the same wine, I think that three bottles is of each wine is what I would like to aim for on my budget. The first bottle would be drank after five years of cellaring, the other two to be drank at a time based on the performance of this bottle.

What do people think about this?

[Wilfrid]

Two and a half bottles of wine per week strikes me as an ambitiously modest intake.  John Arlott auctioned off a large part of his wine collection before moving to his retirement home in Alderney.  He did so partly to avoid Alderney duty; but he also said that he had spent most of his life thinking he would not have enough wine for his retirement, and was now worried that he would not have enough time to drink what he had acquired.

These calculations are clearly very important.  I would push it up to 800 bottles.

[TCD]

These calculations are clearly very important.  I would push it up to 800 bottles.

The first real goal I established was 500-525 bottles.  I have since moved the goal to 625-650 and am currently in the process of talking myself into moving it up to the 1000 range.  I currently have approximately 450 bottles.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Adam-The classic British example of a cellar is to buy twice the amount of wine you are going to drink. Then by the time it is ageworthy, and in reality usually somewhat sooner, you can sell half and drink for free less the cost of money for the term of holding the stock. This practice worked better in days of yore as the market went through a price correction over the last 5 years and price growth has slowed. But of course, this methodology only works well when you buy the type of wine that has secondary market value like good clarets. But I guess it will work with any ageable wine. I mean what about leaving your cellar to heirs?

[winodj]

If only I had a cellar. I love wine and would buy a lot more if my budget allows. Unfortunately, I have very limited space and I am limited to about 25 bottles.... If I had the budget to have a quality cellar and collection, I would buy by the case or half case... for the same reason mentioned above.... it would be a good investment, 5 years down the line. When I was 13, I convinced my father to buy me with my money five bottles of Bordeaux 1989.... I still have 3 or 4. I saw one of the bottles for sale last year in a wine store for over 150 bux. I paid 10.

I doubt price accumulation would be that stunning with the vast majority of wines but I think with good selection... Within five years, I think the wine would start paying for itself.

[Niall]

It all comes down to how much your drink, how often you buy and how much you age them... I used to work with a mathemetician who had decided to figure it all out and came up with an equation that supposedly took into account the percentage of each variety he drank, how long he thought each variety at each pricepoint he purchased would need to be aged, how often he purchased wine, how often the wine clubs he was a member of delivered. It was all very complex until he came up with a number and said "And I'll add on 20% just in case".

He moved jobs, and he wasn't really an interesting enough person to stay in touch with. I would suggest that you fill all available space. And then write me into your will.

[A Balic]

I think that the problem with the "classic english cellar" is that you end up purchasing a large proportion of you wine, based on the expectations of other peoples tastes. This kind of removes some of the fun of getting the wine in the first place. Also, wine auction market is becoming less straight forward (ie. not so much concentration on Bordeaux first growths), so that makes it a little more tricky to buy for resale.

My tastes may not be that similar to others, so while I would buy a case of Vouvray to age for 10+ years, who would buy the other case? Similarly, I could buy a case of the latest fashionable Cab., Syrah etc for its resale potential, but I may not neccessarily want to drink itself. When the Paul Bocuse restaurant in Melbourne closed in the late 90's they sold off the wine cellar, I bought some bottles of '90 Ch. Riesusec and Ch. Climens for about 30 quid each. These are great wines and I want to drink these types of wine, but their resale value isn't very good, so If I want to drink these types of wine I have to buy them for myself not anybody else. If I had a larger budget I guess I could get wine purely to re-sell, but that doesn't interest me at this point. Is this being naive, do you think?

[TCD]

Is this being naive, do you think?

Adam:

I think that there is no right way or wrong way to do this.  Your plan as set forth in the initial post seems to be a sound approach.

I pretty much buy what I like, mostly at retail and some at auction mainly to give the cellar some well-aged options without the wait or to replenish favorites.  At retail I generally buy two to four bottles of a wine.  I enjoy many different types of wine and am more interested in breadth than depth of multiple bottles.  

I keep a list of what I have and attempt to divide it into sections: optimal drinking, drinkable and hold.  I generally just open the optimal drinking wines, but will delve into the drinkable (and hold) wines if I need to.  My fear, of course, is that too many wines will fall into the optimal range to be enjoyed before they start heading into decline.  I don't particularly manage against that happening and, luckily, I don't think I'm in that situation just yet.  I guess I don't worry about it as the remedy is fairly simple: host some dinner parties, trade for younger wines or sell at auction.

Good luck.

[Winot]

I am starting to learn about wine and building up a cellar (currently about 80 bottles) and the problem I am having is finding a guide to how long different wines from different producers should be aged.  Yes I *know* this comes down to personal taste, but surely there must be some guidelines out there.  Any suggestions?

[TCD]

the problem I am having is finding a guide to how long different wines from different producers should be aged.  Yes I *know* this comes down to personal taste, but surely there must be some guidelines out there.  Any suggestions?

The eRobertParker.com site has a vintage chart that sets forth regional (not producer) ratings and readiness to drink (as least to Mr. Parker's palate/experience).  You can also conduct searchs (the first few for free and thererafter you must subscribe) by producer and other criteria of wines that have appeared in the Wine Advocate.  Almost every review contains a maturity estimate.

[Guest urbanhero]

Hey Adam,

Having gone through years of cellar growth, peaking at over 200 cases, i have recently examined my needs and have come to the following conclusions. The wine i drink averages 13 years old and i drink around 85 bottles per year from my cellar. I hope to eventually equalize, through sales and attrition, at just under 1200 bottles. more than enough to keep me happy. The hard part will be buying only the 85 replacement bottles per year. Cheers