the papaya king empire

[ozgirl06]

I just finished reading this on the Washington Post website.

It seems that Papaya King is interested in expanding its purvue and wants to go nationwide. Locations include both DC & Baltimore areas.

Papaya King in NYC is quite the experience and a destination for hot dog lovers. I wonder if it will work here in DC.

I'm sure a lot will depend on location, location, location, but do you think that people in DC will actively seek out a good hotdog (beyond Palena, that is.)?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...9-2004Nov7.html

[Holly Moore]

A few years ago, in Papaya King's first attempt at crossing the Hudson to the provinces, they opened just of the U of Penn campus in Philadephia. A total flop. Closed in a year or so. It was a great location, but their prices were much higher than NY. Just wasn't the value, and the name wasn't enough to carry it. And since they weren't doing the volume the dogs weren't as fresh.

They should, but I don't think that Papaya King brings along the cool name recognition of a Fat Burger or a KrispyKreme.

[squids]

I just finished reading this on the Washington Post website.

It seems that Papaya King is interested in expanding its purvue and wants to go nationwide.  Locations include both DC & Baltimore areas.

Papaya King in NYC is quite the experience and a destination for hot dog lovers.  I wonder if it will work here in DC.

I'm sure a lot will depend on location, location, location, but do you think that people in DC will actively seek out a good hotdog (beyond Palena, that is.)?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...9-2004Nov7.html

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Is Papaya King anything like Gray's Papaya? If it is, I can easily see people lining up for them, just like they line up for the mexican cart on K St. (at least I think it's K) Gray's has always been a stop for us when we're needing a quick bite in-between shopping and museums, whenever we go to NYC. And if they keep the cost the same, how could it miss? For anyone who remembers Gus, it's a good thing he retired, or else it would be quite the toss up of whether to go to his cart, or to Papaya King!

edited to add--after reading the article, I should note that the Gus I am referring to ran a cart in DC for many, many moons, in the Golden Triangle district.

Edited November 8, 2004 by squids (log)

[Holly Moore]

Is Papaya King anything like Gray's Papaya? If it is, I can easily see people lining up for them, just like they line up for the mexican cart on K St. (at least I think it's K) Gray's has always been a stop for us when we're needing a quick bite in-between shopping and museums, whenever we go to NYC. And if they keep the cost the same, how could it miss?  For anyone who remembers Gus, it's a good thing he retired, or else it would be quite the toss up of whether to go to his cart, or to Papaya King!

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In terms of quality, Papaya King is to Gray's Papaya what In and Out Burger is to McDonald's.

[Jason Perlow]

Thats not an apt comparison, as Gray's was started after Papaya King and there is only one Gray's, as opposed to multiple Papaya Kings. I'd also say Gray's is about the same as Papaya King in quality.

Both of these places, however, aren't even in the same universe as the original Nathans. However as chain dogs go, even the chain Nathans are pretty damn good.

[iamthestretch]

OK, call me ignorant Eurotrash, but what's the papaya angle? Where is it written that in order to sell sausages in New York, you first have to purport to purvey tropical fruits?

[Jason Perlow]

I'm not sure how it started, but the papaya drink is a good match for a hot dog. Plus papaya aids greatly in digestion.

[Holly Moore]

Thats not an apt comparison, as Gray's was started after Papaya King and there is only one Gray's, as opposed to multiple Papaya Kings. I'd also say Gray's is about the same as Papaya King in quality.

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I was speaking only in terms of quality. And NO WAY does Gray's come close to Papaya King in qualtiy. Gray's is a great value and has saved many a college student from going hungry, but there's a reason for the difference in price. I can't speak to raw material source or portion size - only know that every Papaya King dog I've ever had was fresh hot and nicely cooked and I can't say the same for Gray's.

[Jason Perlow]

But they are the same exact dogs. Prepared in the same exact manner. Made by Marathon, nearly identical to Sabretts.

[Holly Moore]

But they are the same exact dogs. Prepared in the same exact manner. Made by Marathon, nearly identical to Sabretts.

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Yep. But a craftsman can take clay and mold a beautiful pot. A third grader can take the same clay and mold a pot that only his mother will see to be of comparable beauty.

Knowing the ingredients were the same I've done same day tastings on a number of occasions. My read is that Papaya King cares about quality, Gray's cares about quantity.

Edit: Here's a thread on Grays vs. Papaya King.

Edited November 8, 2004 by Holly Moore (log)

[Carrot Top]

I have had such a terrible urge for Papaya King lately that I looked up their website just several days ago to try to find the closest one.

Really good stuff.

Classic and sort of no-nonsense.

And the drinks are very healthy, which balances out the hot dog thing.

[morela]

I just wish Shake Shack would come to DC.

Mmmm...

[John]

I've mentioned before that Papaya King and Gray's Papaya use the exact same 10 to a lb natural casing beef hot dog. I've been told this by Sabrett distributors, the son of a long time Sabrett truck driver who supplied these places, and by the person in charge of private label at Marathon. Katz's uses a slightly larger dog, but it is the same recipe. At least twice in the past, I've compared Papaya King to Gray's, and like Holly, I preferred Papaya King. Even thought they are the EXACT same dog, they taste better at Papaya King. I believe they may be fresher, and grilled better. The article states that the meat is not frozen before being delivered to Papaya King, while it is frozen at 90% of their (Marathon's) other accounts, presumably including Gray's. Maybe this too makes a difference. I'm glad that Holly reviewed Crif Dogs (see his post on the Shake Shack) in New York. Crif's uses the exact same dog as Rutt's Hut, but I'm sure Holly would agree that Rutt's is superior.

I believe that if, and this is a big if, Papaya King uses the same quality dogs and prepares them the same way under the same conditions, that there's no reason why they can't be successful. I hope that they are. If so, then the rest of the nation that doesn't have access to a quality all beef dog will finally get one. I believe that Nathan's has tried and failed at this. Their locations or franchises are very inconsistent. Many of the locations don't grill their dogs enough, many use the skinless version, and some use the skinless version and cook it on one of those roller grills rather than a griddle.

The article also mentioned that hot dogs are perhaps the easiest fast food to reproduce at home. I agree. My favorite beef dog from a hot dog joint is Syd's in Union, N.J. Better than even Papaya King. I get the same dogs from the factory and prepare them the same way they do at Syd's. The dogs taste the same and for close to 1/5th the price that I pay for a dog at Syd's. I just top this dog with deli mustard. At a lot of hot dog joints they serve special homemade condiments like chili or relish that you can't duplicate at home. But it will be interesting to see if Papaya King can be successful. I think they will if they can maintain the same quality as at their Manhattan location. And keep every other factor the same. Maybe easier said than done.

[jmc8y]

bah, chicago dogs are where it's at

[John]

Hardly. Unless you like a salad to coverup the rather bland Vienna dog.

[rosebud]

But, will they add DC's own contribution to the hot dog world, the half-smoke?

[jmc8y]

Hardly. Unless you like a salad to coverup the rather bland Vienna dog.

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yeah because most salads I know are comprised of relish, pickles and tomatoes.

[douginvirginia]

I would think the abilility to keep the price down - and thus the value up - will be the key to the success of this aggresive expansion venture. That will be difficult to achieve with high rents.

Many of the great, long established, dog places seem to be in smaller communities or locations where, for one reason or another, the cost of dirt & brick is low.

Most people would not see value in a > $3.00 hot dog.

[Roger Troutman]

Hardly. Unless you like a salad to coverup the rather bland Vienna dog.

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Exactly. Want some hot dog with that salad? Personally, I prefer a good hot dog with minimal embellishments, like a bit of chili (easy on the beans), and maybe some diced onions. Not with so many toppings that the flavor of the dog is obscured.

And where would Papaya King place their franchises in D.C.? I can't think of too many places where it would succeed. Maybe on 18th Street in Adams Morgan, where all the drunken kids would be delighted to throw wads of money down on hot dogs and fruity drinks.

[Carrot Top]

I would think the abilility to keep the price down - and thus the value up - will be the key to the success of this aggresive expansion venture. That will be difficult to achieve with high rents.

Many of the great, long established, dog places seem to be in smaller communities or locations where, for one reason or another, the cost of dirt & brick is low.

Most people would not see value in a > $3.00 hot dog.

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Well... Papaya King has been surviving and apparently doing well with New York City rents for a loooooong time.....and in some decent foot-traffic locations, too.

Of course, who knows. Could be they own the buildings...but the shops are so tiny that I sort of doubt it.