Gordon Ramsay Royal Hospital Road

[olicollett]

That very late slot "stunt" was pulled on me, not here but at Corrigans.

Strange though it may seem I accepted the 10pm booking but had it in my mind that it was really 8pm

So we turned up at 8 and guess what?

Half empty.

We were seated without fuss, and enjoyed the meal.

I dislike eating too late at night, its unnatural

Whats going on, how much business do these people lose?

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I've always found booking Ramsay restaurants to be a pain, I get the impression they like to save a lot of tables for certain clientèle. I can't understand how it makes a lot of business sense, it's one thing holding back 1-2 but from the sounds of these experiences it's a lot more than that!

[howardlong]

We ate at the restaurant on June 9, 2009. 

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This is spectacularly interesting for me. I called up at about 6pm on that very day to request a table, on a punt that there'd be some cancellations due to the tube strike, and was told they were completely full.

Either the punters who'd booked didn't cancel (an inexcusable malfeasance in my book, tube strike or not), or, as has been suggested, they keep the tables open for supposed special customers.

(In the end I went to Le Gav instead, and despite not having dined there for about three months was greeted and addressed by name as if I still go there at least once a month by Maitre d' and many of the other FOH crew throughout the evening.)

H

[howardlong]

I've always found booking Ramsay restaurants to be a pain

Agreed, their centralised booking is a real PITA. So you're going out for a meal at £100+ pp and you get put through to a call centre?

I did have 'special' numbers a few years back for Petrus and the Connaught that put you straight in touch with the front desk, but I'm afraid I could never figure out if it was ever any benefit: I tried a couple of times with the Petrus one and it didn't get me anywhere.

Another problem with their centralised system is that I found they're sometimes a bit over familiar with you in the restaurant when they see you come up on their database and think they should pretend to recognise you.

H

[ameiden]

Ramsay's website has now introduced online bookings, which I find a really convenient way to reserve a table. But when you arrive on the relevant landing page and click on the RHR logo, they ask you to phone for a reservation. Of course, online booking works for all the other places!

I find it strange and greedy if restaurants of this caliber run the system of allocating slots. When I went there for lunch many years ago, we got a table for 12 o'clock but were asked at the time of booking to leave at 2 pm as this was when the next guests would be seated at our table. In the end, this was exactly what happened, and we had to have our coffee in the bar area.

[Matthew Grant]

Greedy or buisiness minded? Restaurants, whether we like it or not, are a business there to make money. Chefs/owners with 3 stars or those aspiring to 3 stars (or those who aren't capable of getting them but using it as an excuse ) often complain of the expense of obtaining and maintaining a 3 star restaurant.

If their business model requires them to have two sittings to stay in profit and you are informed beforehand that you will have to vacate your table what is the problem with this?

[Infrasonic]

We ate at the restaurant on June 9, 2009. 

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This is spectacularly interesting for me. I called up at about 6pm on that very day to request a table, on a punt that there'd be some cancellations due to the tube strike, and was told they were completely full.

Either the punters who'd booked didn't cancel (an inexcusable malfeasance in my book, tube strike or not), or, as has been suggested, they keep the tables open for supposed special customers.

(In the end I went to Le Gav instead, and despite not having dined there for about three months was greeted and addressed by name as if I still go there at least once a month by Maitre d' and many of the other FOH crew throughout the evening.)

H

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Anyone tried booking on behalf of David Beckham to see if this works...

[howardlong]

If their business model requires them to have two sittings to stay in profit and you are informed beforehand that you will have to vacate your table what is the problem with this?

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There's no problem at all if it is made clear. Unless there is a good reason to go, I tend to avoid such places, much as I avoid places with obscenely long advance bookings.

I am minded to remember a case at GR@Clardges where I had a table booked for 17:45, and I arrived for that time. I wasn't seated until 18:05.

When the menu arrived, it was sans tasting menu. I asked for the tasting menu, and the waiter/ress had to run off to the kitchen to find out if it could be done. The result was a reluctant positive, but of course I had to wolf down the seven or eight courses ASAP.

During the course of the meal on four occasions they took delight in reminding me I had to vacate by 19:45.

I asked for the bill at 19:40. Needless to say it didn't arrive until 20:10.

H

[food1]

Greedy or buisiness minded? Restaurants, whether we like it or not, are a business there to make money. Chefs/owners with 3 stars or those aspiring to 3 stars (or those who aren't capable of getting them but using it as an excuse )  often complain of the expense of obtaining and maintaining a 3 star restaurant.

If their business model requires them to have two sittings to stay in profit and you are informed beforehand that you will have to vacate your table what is the problem with this?

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I do not agree for one minute that a three star restaurant should turn tables. No way. This is supossed to be the ultimate in dining and hospi- fucking- tality, a leisurely, relaxed affair for the customer. At the end of the day alot of people have to save long and hard for such an experience and will not appreciate being told to politely fook off, we want your table back.

There are too many places now that set the stop watch as soon as their 'valued' customers enter. Three star restaurants should not be in this league

From my own limited three star experiences, I have never been asked to vacate the table.

[Matthew Grant]

What time were you eating? If I was in France I wouldn't expect it, then again if I'm in 3* in Paris I'm more than likely paying twice the price of RHR.

I don't see the customer has any cause for complaint if they have been advised that the table would be required again at the time of booking.

Edited June 17, 2009 by Matthew Grant (log)

[Simon_S]

The problem arises when the staff and/or kitchen are ill-equipped to get you fed and watered within the allotted time. My usual response to "we'll need the table back by 9" is to point out that my ability to leave before that time is entirely in the hands of the staff.

[food1]

Whether the customer is told or not, for me a three star restaurant turning tables, just doesn't sit right. It doesn't matter if is London, Paris or New York.

How an earth can a restaurant claim to be three star, if they are only allotting a certain time space? Its not about get em in n get em out. No, its not right.

If RHR does operate this sort of system then Im with all the diners who say that the place is not three star anymore. Is G.R's three star status no more now than the Michelin looking after him and the celeb chef looking after them?

Also to answer your question Matthew, my last two three star outings were an early sitting at L'Astrance and likewise at the French Laundry. With the menu set up etc, there would be no way they could of put a time limit on the diner.

This just renforces my thoughts of the fact, is GR really a three star restaurant anymore, regardless of what Michelin proclaim?

[Hearno]

Whether the customer is told or not, for me a three star restaurant turning tables,  just doesn't sit right. It doesn't matter if is London, Paris or New York.

How an earth can a restaurant claim to be three star, if they are only allotting a certain time space? Its not about get em in n get em out. No, its not right.

If RHR does operate this sort of system then Im with all the diners who say that the place is not three star anymore. Is G.R's three star status no more now than the Michelin looking after him and the celeb chef looking after them?

Also to answer your question Matthew, my last two three star outings were an early sitting at L'Astrance and likewise at the French Laundry. With the menu set up etc, there would be no way they could of put a time limit on the diner.

This just renforces my thoughts of the fact, is GR really a three star restaurant anymore, regardless of what Michelin proclaim?

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Couldn't agree more. Clearing the tables for another sitting and a sense of rushing should stay in the fast food outlets where they belong. If I'm going to spend £300 a head on a meal I'm going to take as much time as I bloody well want.

[howardlong]

If I'm going to spend £300 a head on a meal I'm going to take as much time as I bloody well want.

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Agreed, and for that reason I, and I'm sure many others, would rather take their patronage elsewhere. But as Matthew stated, if it's made clear you have little redress unless the service is less than swift.

To be honest, GR places to seem to attract more than their fair share of blue mooners and chef groupies wearing rose tinted glasses for whom Gordon can do no wrong.

But if he can fill his restaurants (at least on non-strike days) with lemmings who are prepared to accept two hour table turning, then good luck to him. Just don't expect to attract too many regulars that way.

By the way, FWIW back in the days of the Connaught and Petrus, once I'd established a relationship with FOH I found that had no difficulty in retaining the table for the entire evening whether or not I'd been thrown the two hour mantra at booking.

Cheers, Howard

[Matthew Grant]

Whether the customer is told or not, for me a three star restaurant turning tables,  just doesn't sit right. It doesn't matter if is London, Paris or New York.

How an earth can a restaurant claim to be three star, if they are only allotting a certain time space? Its not about get em in n get em out. No, its not right.

If RHR does operate this sort of system then Im with all the diners who say that the place is not three star anymore. Is G.R's three star status no more now than the Michelin looking after him and the celeb chef looking after them?

Also to answer your question Matthew, my last two three star outings were an early sitting at L'Astrance and likewise at the French Laundry. With the menu set up etc, there would be no way they could of put a time limit on the diner.

This just renforces my thoughts of the fact, is GR really a three star restaurant anymore, regardless of what Michelin proclaim?

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Couldn't agree more. Clearing the tables for another sitting and a sense of rushing should stay in the fast food outlets where they belong. If I'm going to spend £300 a head on a meal I'm going to take as much time as I bloody well want.

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You can take as much time as you want if you eat after 20:00, nobody has forced you to take a table that is going to be turned.

Gordon Ramsay is £90 for 3 courses or £110 for the tasting menu, Aren't L'Astrance and Per Se are at least twice that with no option of 3 courses (lets not discuss the realtive merits of the meals)?

Don't get me wrong, I certainly wouldn't take the table if it is going to be turned but if that is what it takes for a decent restaurant to survive in London surely that is what they should do? I'm sure Ramsay (and I'm not his greatest fan) would happily charge £200 for dinner and only have one sitting.

Plenty of 3 star restaurants have gone bust!

[Food Snob]

You can take as much time as you want if you eat after 20:00, nobody has forced you to take a table that is going to be turned.

Gordon Ramsay is £90 for 3 courses or £110 for the tasting menu, Aren't L'Astrance and Per Se are at least twice that with no option of 3 courses (lets not discuss the realtive merits of the meals)?

Don't get me wrong, I certainly wouldn't take the table if it is going to be turned but if that is what it takes for a decent restaurant to survive in London surely that is what they should do? I'm sure Ramsay (and I'm not his greatest fan) would happily charge £200 for dinner and only have one sitting.

Plenty of 3 star restaurants have gone bust!

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I may be wrong/out-of-date, but the last time I was at l'Astrance, in January, for lunch, it was EUR70/120/190 for 3/5/7 courses...

Definitely one of the best value 3* lunches in Paris.

l'Arpege has an 8-course menu for EUR135.

[Matthew Grant]

I won't disagree that is a good value lunch. I was really referring to dinner. I didn't think you had a choice in the evening at L'Astrance I thought it was €190? At Arpege isn't it €285/360 in the evening? That is considerably more than Ramsay. Even if you take the lunch prices into account I guess that Ramsay would still need two sittings to match the takings of Arpege!

Anyway, my main point stands, you don't have to take the reservation if you don't want your table turned, the same applies at any restaurant and I often move the time if I'm told I may be thrown off my table.

Going back to Per Se, I seem to recall that they do turn some tables, maybe not all

[Food Snob]

I won't disagree that is a good value lunch. I was really referring to dinner. I didn't think you had a choice in the evening at L'Astrance I thought it was €190? At Arpege isn't it €285/360 in the evening? That is considerably more than Ramsay. Even if you take the lunch prices into account I guess that Ramsay would still need two sittings to match the takings of Arpege!

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Just regarding this point...I was always under the impression that costs are higher in Paris - for ingredients, for staff - then in London.

Taking l'Astrance say, it is E190 for dinner (~£175), that is only £65 more than GR. And it does not turn tables. And it has only 25ish covers.

[food1]

I won't disagree that is a good value lunch. I was really referring to dinner. I didn't think you had a choice in the evening at L'Astrance I thought it was €190? At Arpege isn't it €285/360 in the evening? That is considerably more than Ramsay. Even if you take the lunch prices into account I guess that Ramsay would still need two sittings to match the takings of Arpege!

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Just regarding this point...I was always under the impression that costs are higher in Paris - for ingredients, for staff - then in London.

Taking l'Astrance say, it is E190 for dinner (~£175), that is only £65 more than GR. And it does not turn tables. And it has only 25ish covers.

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Good to see you back food snob, where have you been hiding?!

The last thing I would add to this debate, is that GR's RHR charges are completely relative to the rest of the UK restaurant industry. I.e Top end, which it should be.

[ameiden]

Agree that it makes perfect sense from a business perspective to turn tables if your prices have to be market-right and if your restaurant would be struggling otherwise. (And as we all know, Ramsay Holdings are struggling big time at the moment!)

But I strongly disagree that this could or should still be called a three star experience, especially if one has to rush through a multi-course tasting menu. I would rather have everything wrapped up as a takeaway and eat it on a park bench in my own time!

Went to GR Claridge's once and only got a table for 10pm. When we arrived, the large dining room was full of people and almost steamy as the aircon could probably not cope with that amount of diners, all crammed into the small gaps between the densely placed tables. During the first 15 minutes we had to witness how the waiters were asking various tables to leave against their will to make room for the next lot. Then of course they started clearing tables, putting new cloths on in a hurry and so on and so on ... All in all, my normally healthy appetite can suffer from unrest like this. It should make a difference if one sits in a luxury restaurant or in the middle of Kings Cross Station.

[Matthew Grant]

I would rather have everything wrapped up as a takeaway and eat it on a park bench in my own time! 

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I reckon you might get a substantial discount if you did that

[Hearno]

I'm sure it makes fantastic business sense and, as mentioned earlier, if they can get away with it then fair enough.

I just speak from a personal level when I say that I will take my time, enjoy the experience and will not be rushed.

[Matthew Grant]

I won't disagree that is a good value lunch. I was really referring to dinner. I didn't think you had a choice in the evening at L'Astrance I thought it was €190? At Arpege isn't it €285/360 in the evening? That is considerably more than Ramsay. Even if you take the lunch prices into account I guess that Ramsay would still need two sittings to match the takings of Arpege!

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Just regarding this point...I was always under the impression that costs are higher in Paris - for ingredients, for staff - then in London.

Taking l'Astrance say, it is E190 for dinner (~£175), that is only £65 more than GR. And it does not turn tables. And it has only 25ish covers.

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L'Astrance is an anomaly though isn't it? Most 3* restaurants in Paris are vastly more than Royal hospital road. €90 for a starter isn't unusual.

[Food Snob]

L'Astrance is an anomaly though isn't it? Most 3* restaurants in Paris are vastly more than Royal hospital road. €90 for a starter isn't unusual.

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Of course it is. And that's why I picked it.

If I had gone with l'Ambroisie, well...

P.S. Cheers, food1. Been here the whole time, just indulgently reading without responding

[food1]

(And as we all know, Ramsay Holdings are struggling big time at the moment!)

RHR aside, Im reading that GR is still opening restaurants here, there and everywhere at the moment.

Im probably missing something very fundemental but where is the finance for all these ventures coming from, seeing as he was on the verge of going bust.

[BRIGHTON CHEF]

(And as we all know, Ramsay Holdings are struggling big time at the moment!)

RHR aside, Im reading that GR is still opening restaurants here, there and everywhere at the moment.

Im probably missing something very fundemental but where is the finance for all these ventures coming from, seeing as he was on the verge of going bust.

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SIR ROCCO!!!!!!!!!!