Lespinasse (Closed)

[Nockerl]

My goodness, I missed the comment about the cheese.  The appropriate answer might have been "Well, fucking well get the cheeses out again."

You are bloody hell right. But Nick is a gracious man!

[tommy]

My goodness, I missed the comment about the cheese.  The appropriate answer might have been "Well, fucking well get the cheeses out again."

you see, i should have gone.

[Nockerl]

My goodness, I missed the comment about the cheese.  The appropriate answer might have been "Well, fucking well get the cheeses out again."

you see, i should have gone.

You missed out! COuld have had some real excitement. Then again I'd be way up if I had that Spaghetti and Meatballs for $8 that you ate...

[Bux]

It was incumbent upon the diners to collectively determine whether they wanted to adhere to formal etiquette and wait, or to adopt the practical solution of starting before the absent diner's return.

It was a French restaurant. French protocol, I believe, would have had you eating the food while it was hot.

It's a real burden to the kitchen if someone leaves the table at an inopportune moment, but it's the restaurant's responsibility, in a restaurant of this class, to see that the food is served when everyone is there ready to eat. I don't know when the diner left the table or why the servers were caught off guard and the service failure is apart from my comments on when diners should begin eating. There's no question in my mind that you eat when the food is served to you. If there's a delay in one dish, you eat as it arrives. I should not wait for the last plate to be served, nor will I tolerate anyone else staring at his food while I wait for my dish. This was a different situation, but there's no intelligent reason for everyone to bring his, or her, enjoyment down to the lowest level because of the restaurant's error

I wonder if there are any Frenchmen our there who can support my interetation of French manners.

The point is, Cabby, that if you are going to put a cloche on one plate, you may as well put a cloche on every plate.  To do otherwise suggests it is fair to assume that we will rudely eat our dishes before the return of the absentee.  And it is not as if they didn't have enough staff or cloches to perform the trick.  We should have asked, perhaps, but it only slowly dawned on me what a silly position we were in.

I disagree that it would have been rude to start eating once you ageed to let the waiters place the food on the table (not that I really believe you could have done anything about it at that point).

[tommy]

I disagree that it would have been rude to start eating once you ageed to let the waiters place the food on the table

that seems to be the gist of your post. however, i think it's pretty standard that people wait...here in america at least. or maybe i'm just too darned polite.

[Nockerl]

I disagree that it would have been rude to start eating once you ageed to let the waiters place the food on the table

that seems to be the gist of your post. however, i think it's pretty standard that people wait...here in america at least. or maybe i'm just too darned polite.

Would have been rude and I know for a fact that she would have noticed!

[Wilfrid]

Not disputing about France, but it certainly is good manners to wait where I come from. As to etiquette in the United States, I don't hesitate to defer to Thomas above.

[Nockerl]

It was incumbent upon the diners to collectively determine whether they wanted to adhere to formal etiquette and wait, or to adopt the practical solution of starting before the absent diner's return.

It was a French restaurant. French protocol, I believe, would have had you eating the food while it was hot.

It's a real burden to the kitchen if someone leaves the table at an inopportune moment, but it's the restaurant's responsibility, in a restaurant of this class, to see that the food is served when everyone is there ready to eat. I don't know when the diner left the table or why the servers were caught off guard and the service failure is apart from my comments on when diners should begin eating. There's no question in my mind that you eat when the food is served to you. If there's a delay in one dish, you eat as it arrives. I should not wait for the last plate to be served, nor will I tolerate anyone else staring at his food while I wait for my dish. This was a different situation, but there's no intelligent reason for everyone to bring his, or her, enjoyment down to the lowest level because of the restaurant's error

I wonder if there are any Frenchmen our there who can support my interetation of French manners.

The point is, Cabby, that if you are going to put a cloche on one plate, you may as well put a cloche on every plate.  To do otherwise suggests it is fair to assume that we will rudely eat our dishes before the return of the absentee.  And it is not as if they didn't have enough staff or cloches to perform the trick.  We should have asked, perhaps, but it only slowly dawned on me what a silly position we were in.

I disagree that it would have been rude to start eating once you ageed to let the waiters place the food on the table (not that I really believe you could have done anything about it at that point).

Bux,

I hear what you are saying. And while this is a French restaurant none of us were native Frenchmen and were raised most probably with the notion that waiting is the proper thing to do.

However, the diner left the table with ample time for the waitstaff to inform the kitchen to hold the firing of the food. The dish in question was a barely cooked duck breast that would not have suffered by being held in the kitchen. Not that anything could have done much to make this dish much more disappointing than it already was. A higher temperature may have helped it a tad if anything

[ngatti]

Nockerl! It just hit me.

I'm working here on a recipe and I need some dried porcini (cepes). I open the bag and BOING! That's the smell and the taste....Dried Cepes!

[Nockerl]

Nockerl!  It just hit me.

I'm working here on a recipe and I need some dried porcini (cepes).  I open the bag and BOING!  That's the smell and the taste....Dried Cepes!

YOUSE A GENIOUS!!!!!!!!!!! (brooklynesque enough for ya?)

And totally correct. That is were all that intensity came from. well I'll be a son of a B*tch

[ngatti]

3) Grosse Langoustine – Puree de Fenouille – Artichauts, Cresson – Epinards- Roquette

"Brittany Langoustine, Puree of Fennel and Artichokes, Pine Nuts and Balsamic Vinegar"

Here is where I started to question the meal.

The Langoustine tail tasted of a large sweetwater prawn and had a similar texture, almost, but not quite, mushy to the point of off-putting. Nothing about it was special.

The Fennel and Artichoke puree was. I don't know. You cook the stuff in stock you puree it and you add butter, maybe cream and season. Nothing concentrated, kind of blah in color taste and texture.

The chopped and sauteed cress/spinach/arugula, which ringed the plate in four separate piles, tasted mostly of spinach and contained a few toasted pine nuts. A cordon of reduced vinegar and maybe some Beurre Blanc(??) complete the dish.

This tepidly desultory and ultimately boring combination of ingredients was my first inkling that this meal was not going to be the sterling magic that I had anticipated.

Nick

[Nockerl]

3) Grosse Langoustine – Puree de Fenouille – Artichauts, Cresson – Epinards- Roquette

"Brittany Langoustine, Puree of Fennel and Artichokes, Pine Nuts and Balsamic Vinegar"

Here is where I started to question the meal.

The Langoustine tail tasted of a large sweetwater prawn and had a similar texture, almost, but not quite, mushy to the point of off-putting. Nothing about it was special.

The Fennel and Artichoke puree was. I don't know. You cook the stuff in stock you puree it and you add butter, maybe cream and season. Nothing concentrated, kind of blah in color taste and texture.

The chopped and sauteed cress/spinach/arugula, which ringed the plate in four separate piles, tasted mostly of spinach and contained a few toasted pine nuts. A cordon of reduced vinegar and maybe some Beurre Blanc(??) complete the dish.

This tepidly desultory and ultimately boring combination of ingredients was my first inkling that this meal was not going to be the sterling magic that I had anticipated.

Nick

Much agreement here. The four piles of salad were so forgettable that I forgot them until you just reminded me.

The worst thing about the puree was the color. Battleship grey

I think to say the langoustine was like a sweetwater prawn is to insult sweetwater prawns. Bad bad bad bad and bad

[Jinmyo]

I'm relieved that the Oeuf en Cocotte issue was resolved. It sounded like such a nice dish.

[Bux]

Bux,

I hear what you are saying. And while this is a French restaurant none of us were native Frenchmen and were raised most probably with the notion that waiting is the proper thing to do.

Allow me to suggest eGullet should lead the way in rethinking manners when they serve not to improve one person's meal, but to decrease the please of many. We should not be slaves to tradition. We should be rational leaders.

However, the diner left the table with ample time for the waitstaff to inform the kitchen to hold the firing of the food. The dish in question was a barely cooked duck breast that would not have suffered by being held in the kitchen. Not that anything could have done much to make this dish much more disappointing than it already was. A higher temperature may have helped it a tad if anything

I have no defense for the kitchen and we serve by criticizing and discussing food issues. Any server or cuisinier is free to defend the way this was handled at the restaurant, if there is an excuse. I am well aware, for all my criticism of manners, that this was a talbe with restaurant professionals and that the criticism is professional on this issue.

[tommy]

Allow me to suggest eGullet should lead the way in rethinking manners when they serve not to improve one person's meal, but to decrease the please of many. We should not be slaves to tradition. We should be rational leaders.

allow me to suggest that starting before someone else is seated or has received their meal is rude...unless you're french apparently.

[Nockerl]

The following is from the other dinner guest who asked me to post this:

I certainly appreciate the mannerly behavior that caused you to be stuck with lukewarm plates. I tried to time my departure from the table in the most considerate possible way, but I clearly miscalculated. The restaurant did not handle the situation at all well, but you gentlemen...all three of you...did. Despite any arguments on the thread about the validity of such good manners (here in America), I want you to know that I both noticed and appreciated it.

Perhaps it is old-fashioned, the way it is old fashioned when you hold the door open for me, or I pour the cream in your coffee, or serve you first at the dinner table...or the way we introduce two aquaintences with their full names...give up our seats to an elderly person...One could call it old fashioned-- or good manners.

But think, really, where would societies be-- any society-- without the conventions and traditions of manners? Even nomadic tribes have manners, even war-ravaged lands...it is a human condition to guide our behavior by a set of niceties, and the following of those conventions implies respect for the people involved.

So, I thank all of you, and regret that your already piss-poor dish got even worse!!!

[Nockerl]

Allow me to suggest eGullet should lead the way in rethinking manners when they serve not to improve one person's meal, but to decrease the please of many. We should not be slaves to tradition. We should be rational leaders.

While I see your point and understand your argument I just believe we need to have manners. I think part and parcel of the meal experience is not just the self enjoyment of a meal but in breaking bread together (unless of course you are dining alone, in which case one is free to use their sleeve rather than a napkin ) and to do so we wait for those absent from the table to return.

Now if this was TGI Fridays then the food just comes whenever the kitchen figures out how to prepare it. But this is a high caliber, expensive and supposedly well trained restaurant. The onus is on the restaurant staff to see to my comfort, my enjoyment and to those I am with. I am paying top dollar to hopefully enjoy a certain level of experience. The restaurant better make damn well sure that everything is perfect. We were the guests we should not have to change the manners that we adhere to. The restaurant should be reacting to us and our needs. Lespinasse was not soterribly busy this past Tuesday that the captain could not have advised the kitchen that one of our party had removed herself from the table and held those dishes. Or for heaven's sake put together a damned cheese course for us.

[ngatti]

5) Palombe Grillee – Echalote Confite – Celeri Rave et Truffe Noir

"Grilled Wood Pigeon, Shallot Confit, Celeriac and Black Truffle"

Wilfred Said:

Celeri rave et truffe noir. This accompanied the grilled wood pigeon. The celeriac was chopped and creamed into a kind of "risotto", and the vegetables flavor, combined with rich black truffles, was memorable. Falvors exploding in the mouth - something which should have been happening all evening.

Nockerl said:

The pigeon was the dish that required something more than a butter knife. Was the cutlery choice a vain nod to the kitchen's supposed mastery? Thankfully, all were skilled enough not to shoot the poor bird across the large round table possibly removing the eye of a fellow diner. The bright spot of the pigeon course was definitely the almost "risotto" like celeriac studded with a perfect brunoise and perfume of black truffle. In this instance the side definitely overpowered and out performed the main.

After finally managing to cut through the bird and checking that it was indeed some kind of meat and not some "Candid Camera" stunt (you know, the one where they substitute the rubber pigeon for the real one).

I found the interior to be tender. I agree about the Celeriac. Outstanding!

Nick

[Nockerl]

not some "Candid Camera" stunt (you know, the one where they substitute...

Nick

You know, if the whole meal were a Candid Camera stunt I'd feel a heck of a lot better but I'll be damned: Alan Funt never did show up

[Bux]

allow me to suggest that starting before someone else ... has received their meal is rude...unless you're french apparently. 

Perhaps, but if five people have warm food in front of them why is it not rude to expect them to watch their food get cold while the sixth waits for his food to arrive. What purpose do manners serve in society?

[lizziee]

Maybe, I am missing something, but in a fine dining restaurant a course is never served until everyone is at the table. It is not the diners who should be aware of what the kitchen is doing, but the front and back of the house to be clued in to the diner and serve accordingly.

[ngatti]

At this point I add that my wife and I concluded, that we would have been better off roundtripping it to SF for the evening and dining at Fleur de Lys.

Certainly the food and service would have been far better.

We also think it might have been cheaper.

Nick

[Bux]

I can take this to private mail, start another thread or drop it entirely if it offends anyone. I am not arguing against manners. I am arguing against perpetuating an illogical set of manners that doesn't serve us well. The least I expect is that you understand I may appear ill mannered to you, but that I behave to another standard and that I have educated my daughter to that same standard which attempts to base itself on thought rather than rules and a concern for not inconveniencing others.

To begin, there is no blame for leaving the table and I assume anyone with whom I am dining leaves for good reason. It would be most impolite not to excuse someone from the table or ask if it is necessary. It is also a major service error for the food to be served when someone is not at the table. Lespinasse screwed up and created a problem. Bad things happen and manners are more important when we have to react in less than ideal situations.

Were I dining under formal circumstances and another diner were absent from the table, I would probably not eat my food. However, were that person my wife, I would insist that others begin eating immediately and I would lead them. When my wife returned to the table, she would thank everyone for not letting her absence ruin their food. It would honestly please her not to have interfered with anyone's enjoyment and I have to question a set of manners than places a premium on asking for what I consider pointless sacrifice. You may see this as a clash of cultures or manners, or you may see me as a boor.

[ngatti]

Well said Bux. But it wouldn't occur to me to do so. My habits are are what they are and I would feel uncomfortable. I know exactly what you are saying and I don't think you disagree as much as some think.

I see your point, but in your absence I couldn't implement it.

Nick

[Nockerl]

Were I dining under formal circumstances and another diner were absent from the table, I would probably not eat my food. However, were that person my wife, I would insist that others begin eating immediately and I would lead them. When my wife returned to the table, she would thank everyone for not letting her absence ruin their food. It would honestly please her not to have interfered with anyone's enjoyment and I have to question a set of manners than places a premium on asking for what I consider pointless sacrifice. You may see this as a clash of cultures or manners, or you may see me as a boor.

I hear what you. However, our dining companion never asked us to wait, and we waited of our own volition. That the dish was delivered in her absence, in error, by the restaurant is what started this debate. While there have been circumstances where all present but myself have been served and I've told my companions to please start without me before it gets cold. I do find this different in that I was present to set them at ease that i would not be offended at all if they started without me.

But when the food is delivered in error and a guest is not present it is rude and obnoxious to start without them. And I am sorry that y ou feel otherwise.