Chutneys

[marlena spieler]

to most indians chutneys and pickles are entirely different things (one set is cooked, the other preserved). equating them is largely a "days of the raj" kind of thing.

Of course, Mongo, in the literal sense. One freshly made and one preserved.

In the looser sense, and I thought I was clear, is that since both act as condiments, perhaps someone had a recipe for pickled lemons!

And Yes! There is! I am so excited!

[marlena spieler]

Hi! Marlena,

I didnt realise you were a member here when I linked to your story on Parsi Eggs on Potato in the Indian food-media and news section.

RE:Pickled Lemons, here is what you may be looking for:

It's very easy to make and is served with all South Indian fare.

Mix 10 Limes (quartered) with red Chilli powder, Turmeric powder, Asafoetida, Salt and keep in fridge for a few days. Then saute mustard seeds in half a cup of oil( preferably sesame) and add to the pickle. After a few days more the pickle should have softened and is ready to eat.

If you are using lemons which may be thick skinned, the pickle may take some more days to be ready. The pickle is ready when the skin is 'al dente'.

Dear Epi,

Great that you linked on to my Parsee eggs!

(By the way, lately I've been making them with added tomatoes because some gorgeous fresh tomatoes have come my way, unusual here in the British countryside in April/May. )

And thank you a zillion for the pickled limes. I have a few limes and a couple of lemons in my fruit bowl, so will make up a small batch right now.

I can hardly wait. thanks again. god do i love pickled things, and spicy things.....to me the spices taste like bright colours in my mouth!

x

Marlena

[Peppertrail]

episure, others,

compared to the sesame oil available in asian stores in the u.s this one had almost no aroma (almost analogous to the non-pungent mustard oil available here). was this an anomaly or do indian sesame oils generally not have the powerful, smoky sesame aroma?

thanks,

mongo

Mongo:

The sesame oil in India is dark in color and has a very good aroma. The sesame oil available in Asian stores in NY is called tosted sesame oil and it has a good aroma. However, the sesame oil in Indian stores is clear oil with no fragrance at all. It is the same with coconut oil too. The oil we get in the US does not have the taste or flavor of the coconut oil available back home.

Ammini

[easyguru]

Copmmercialy produced sesame oil in India undergoes a chemical deodorization process to remove odor. If you get a non branded batch extracted sesame oil it will have sesame flavor.

[Guest nimki]

3 clear favourites (though it's hard to choose between them) -

1) Poison - kairi/green mango, mint, cilantro (=dhania?), dark green chillis (the kinds you smell and your eyes water....and just looking at 'em you know...), onions and a bit of curd. Clearly the name is derived from the proportion of DARK green chiilis :)

2) Dahi Ki Chutney / Curd Chutney (this doesn't sound right but ..) - beaten curd, garlic, green chillis, jeera and salt . this chutney is deadly - on taste, flavour, smell (smell is right...aroma might be pushing it). It goes well with pakoras, regular meals, rice ....anything. it's amazing.

there is just one thing - the smell lingers on your breath for hours, even if you rinse, brush, gargle.

3) Lal Mirch ki chutney - red chillis, garlic, salt ground to a highly potent paste. The tiniest smear will do most times.

now this calls for red chillis that are ripened green chillis and not those chillis that were thick fat red ones to begin with. i hope this is making sense.

[andiesenji]

I make a green tomato chutney that is a favorite old family recipe, also several other fruit chutneys.

My grandfather spend several years in India before and during WWI and prior to emigrating to the U.S. from England in 1919 so I grew up (in Kentucky) eating a variety of foods not usually seen on the tables of that area at that time. The cook was a Gullah person from the South Carolina lowcountry whom my grandfather had hired away from a cousin in Charleston with whom he and his family stayed while he was looking for a property. She was illiterate but had an extensive repetoire of recipes committed to memory. My great-grandmother, very Victorian, was an avid collector of recipes and interesting food facts.

Traditional English foods, Indian foods, southern foods all appeared on the table and combined beautifully.

Of course as I was growing up I had no idea how unique this was. It was only after I was long away from home that I realized that my experience was so extraordinary.

There was a great deal of "putting by" and chutneys, both fresh and home canned always were on the table. They ranged from very mild to very, very hot and some were even fermented to develop a certain flavor. I have not attempted the latter, but have tried to approximate several for which I have no recipes. Trying to duplicate a taste that I knew 50 some years ago is a challenge, but trying is a lot of fun.

[Yasmin]

The favorite chutney in our house is green cilantro chutney. I mix cilantro, dried coconut (fresh can be used too), sugar, lemon juice, salt, jalapeno or any other hot peppers, salt and enough water to blend in the blender, fast and easy, I make a big batch and keep some in the refrigerator and freeze the rest in individual containers.

[mongo_jones]

to most indians chutneys and pickles are entirely different things (one set is cooked, the other preserved). equating them is largely a "days of the raj" kind of thing.

Of course, Mongo, in the literal sense. One freshly made and one preserved.

In the looser sense, and I thought I was clear, is that since both act as condiments, perhaps someone had a recipe for pickled lemons!

And Yes! There is! I am so excited!

marlena, your question was whether pickles (achars) qualify as chutneys. my response was merely that to most indians they're two completely different things. if we're going to generalize about condiments why not talk about ketchup and mustard as well? there's some indian varieties of those you don't get anywhere else in the world.

[mongo_jones]

Copmmercialy produced sesame oil in India undergoes a chemical deodorization process to remove odor. If you get a non branded batch extracted sesame oil it will have sesame flavor.

The sesame oil in India is dark in color and has a very good aroma. The sesame oil available in Asian stores in NY is called tosted sesame oil and it has a good aroma. However, the sesame oil in Indian stores is clear oil with no fragrance at all. It is the same with coconut oil too. The oil we get in the US does not have the taste or flavor of the coconut oil available back home.

ammini, i was talking about sesame oil purchased in delhi.

and easyguru, where does one find this non-deodorized sesame oil in india? i ask with a view towards our next trip (not to bring back with us, but to use there).

in general is the use of sesame oil, for pickles or otherwise, regionally specific?

[whippy]

ammini

It is the same with coconut oil too. The oil we get in the US does not have the taste or flavor of the coconut oil available back home.

i use parachute brand, sold here, and it seems pretty aromatic. comes via mumbai. perhaps like olive oil, though, the younger and fresher oil is generally more intense.

whippy

[mongo_jones]

i use parachute brand coconut oil in my hair!

(i like agastya's father's characterization of my generation in english, august, an indian journey as "the generation that doesn't oil its hair" even though i personally do)

[whippy]

perhaps like olive oil, though, the younger and fresher generation is generally more intense.

[mongo_jones]

i'm not sure if that's true for bengalis at least.

[Peppertrail]

i use parachute brand, sold here, and it seems pretty aromatic.  comes via mumbai.  perhaps like olive oil, though, the younger and fresher oil is generally more intense. 

whippy

Whippy:

I have bought parachute brand coconut oil at Indian grocers in NY. Sorry to disagree- it doesn't have the aroma of coconut oil I get in Kerala. It has nothing to do with the age of oil. May be they go through some sort of processing before they are exported. I don't know.

Ammini

[Peppertrail]

ammini, i was talking about sesame oil purchased in delhi.

and easyguru, where does one find this non-deodorized sesame oil in india? i ask with a view towards our next trip (not to bring back with us, but to use there).

Mongo, I know where to buy good sesame oil in south India. Delhi, I have no idea. I will try to find out from my friends there.

Ammini

[Episure]

The key words for aromatic sesame oil are 'Kacche ghani ka tel' +'Til' = Cold pressed.

If you fry sesame seeds in any neutral commercial oil it will take on the aroma and flavour. I do this all the time when I am making tahini for my hummus. The oil is reserved and put to good use later.

Chilli oil is also made the same way.

Parachute oil, as my ex used to say, smells like an oily south Indian, which was funny considering she was one(minus the oil). There is a deodorised non cooking version available which doesnt attract snide remarks.

[rajsuman]

episure, others,

compared to the sesame oil available in asian stores in the u.s this one had almost no aroma (almost analogous to the non-pungent mustard oil available here). was this an anomaly or do indian sesame oils generally not have the powerful, smoky sesame aroma?

thanks,

mongo

Mongo:

The sesame oil in India is dark in color and has a very good aroma. The sesame oil available in Asian stores in NY is called tosted sesame oil and it has a good aroma. However, the sesame oil in Indian stores is clear oil with no fragrance at all. It is the same with coconut oil too. The oil we get in the US does not have the taste or flavor of the coconut oil available back home.

Ammini

Ditto here. I once bought coconut oil from a health food store and discovered it had no aroma, no taste. Why would I want to add all that saturated fat to my dish if it doesn't contribute to the flavour? The sesame oil situation was the same. I used to combine the strong Chinese sesame oil with some veg. oil, but while it was better than nothing, it still come close to the gingelly oil I'm used to.Now of course, I'm glad to say, we have lots of Asian stores selling excellent sesame and coconut oils.

Suman

[Monica Bhide]

to most indians chutneys and pickles are entirely different things (one set is cooked, the other preserved). equating them is largely a "days of the raj" kind of thing.

Of course, Mongo, in the literal sense. One freshly made and one preserved.

In the looser sense, and I thought I was clear, is that since both act as condiments, perhaps someone had a recipe for pickled lemons!

And Yes! There is! I am so excited!

Marlena - welcome welcome welcome to the India forum. I so enjoy reading you work and I glad you are here.

Look forward to much more from you here

[marlena spieler]

to most indians chutneys and pickles are entirely different things (one set is cooked, the other preserved). equating them is largely a "days of the raj" kind of thing.

Of course, Mongo, in the literal sense. One freshly made and one preserved.

marlena, your question was whether pickles (achars) qualify as chutneys. my response was merely that to most indians they're two completely different things. if we're going to generalize about condiments why not talk about ketchup and mustard as well? there's some indian varieties of those you don't get anywhere else in the world.

Evidently I haven't made myself clear, lets attempt to unconfuse you.

It seems you thought I was asking about whether pickles qualify as chutney, without realizing it was simply a humorous intro to my request for pickled lemons. Anyone who knows anything about Indian food knows that pickles are pickles and chutneys are chutneys but they both fit a similar place on the menu, which is to entice and enliven the rice/bread, dahl/stew, veg/meat/fish etc.

I'm sure you're trying to be helpful but the idea of someone misinterpreting my request for pickled lemons, to a question about whether or not pickles could be considered chutney.......

Perhaps your confusion is because many people, when discovering Indian food may have this confusion (which is exacerbated by the Anglo-Indian type of preserved fruit and chili chutneys).

I trust this assists. When people in fora such as this make errors, I don't have the time nor the inclination to point them out, but in this case I thought it might prove helpful.

Now, if you as you infer, you wish to discuss ketchup (which has a surprisingly interesting history) and mustard too (though I'm sure there must already be a thread on this fascinating topic, so much to say, perhaps there is one in the France forum?) then you should start a thread somewhere else.

For the avoidance of doubt, I would recommend you revisit the original question.

Marlena

Oon a lighter and spicier note to all:

Oh, sunday midday, have just steamed up a big Indo-Chinese panful of steamed dumplings: a bit cross cultural, puffy bread dough filled with curried lamb, steamed on a bed of leafy greens. very momo-like. Yum.

With it: yes, an achar, tomato-mustard-onion based, and delicious.

[marlena spieler]

Monica, Monica, Monica!

Thank you for welcoming me on (after I had just posted a slightly testy note previously). forgive me. I'm much happy now!

And thrilled to be in this chutney forum, and in the India section full stop! Its such a great forum!

So many wonderful flavours and smells and spices, isn't it wonderful how Indian subcontinent flavours are seducing us all!

And the thing is this: its the sort of food that all i have to do is read about it and its irrisistible: before you know it i'm roasting and grinding spices, rolling kofta, thinking of the aromas and flavours and colours that will soon be mine.

I look forward to tasty fun here, indeed!

namaste (proper usage?)

Marlena

[mongo_jones]

Evidently I haven't made myself clear, lets attempt to unconfuse you.

It seems you thought I was asking about whether pickles qualify as chutney, without realizing it was simply a humorous intro to my request for pickled lemons. Anyone who knows anything about Indian food knows that pickles are pickles and chutneys are chutneys but they both fit a similar place on the menu, which is to entice and enliven the rice/bread, dahl/stew, veg/meat/fish etc.

I'm sure you're trying to be helpful but the idea of someone misinterpreting my request for pickled lemons, to a question about whether or not pickles could be considered chutney.......

this was the first line of your original post: "can we consider pickles (indian style) as chutney?"

it doesn't leave much room for misinterpretation does it?

Perhaps your confusion is because many people, when discovering Indian food may have this confusion (which is exacerbated by the Anglo-Indian type of preserved fruit and chili chutneys).

how am i, or anyone else, supposed to magically know that you are one of those people who don't confuse pickles with chutney? especially when your response to my first question was to say that pickles and chutneys are both condiments etc.

Now, if you as you infer, you wish to discuss ketchup (which has a surprisingly interesting history) and mustard too (though I'm sure there must already be a thread on this fascinating topic, so much to say, perhaps there is one in the France forum?) then you should start a thread somewhere else.

this is somewhat ironic: surely, given the advice you give me about starting other threads etc., you could have just started a thread of your own with the lemon pickle question and avoided confusion altogether.

doubtless i have been laughably dense but you might consider that your own posts may have played a part in this.

but to take this out of the realm of the merely combative and into that of information:

you say:

Anyone who knows anything about Indian food knows that pickles are pickles and chutneys are chutneys but they both fit a similar place on the menu, which is to entice and enliven the rice/bread, dahl/stew, veg/meat/fish etc.

this is actually not true at all. many chutneys, depending on where you are in india, are separate "courses" in their own right: desserts, palate cleansers etc. other function largely as "dips" for other things (like pakoras, kababs, vadas etc.). in this group fall things like pudina (mint) chutney, coconut chutney, most tamarind chutneys etc. rare is the pickle that plays either of these roles. given this continued confusion on your part i'm actually not so sure at the end that i misunderstood you so fully after all.

[bong]

Marlena, welcome to the India Forum. As a subscriber to the San Francisco Chronicle, I immensely enjoy your articles.

Mongo and you are both right, sort of. And this confusion is very understandable as well, like all things Indian.

In much of the western world, the term "chutney" is usually used to mean some kind of sweet/tart relish, made from cooked down from fruits. Its usually had as an accompaniment with other food, like bread.

In much of north and northwest India, the term "chutney" also means a relish of some kind. It is usually made from aromatic herbs, like mint ("Pudina Chutney"). Sometimes it is also made from other things, and sometimes from fruits. This is also to be had as an accompaniment with other food, like bread..

As others have pointed out, other parts of India have there own version of "chutney".

I am from Bengal (much of Bangladesh and parts of eastern India), so is Mongo. So let me talk about what chutney means to us Bengalis. We pronounce it "chaat--nee". For us, this is usually made from cooked down fruits, along with spices -- examples of fruits are green mangoes, tomatoes, papayas, "kool" (similar to a cherrry). Also, for us, the chutney is served as a separate course altogether, towards the end of the meal but before the dessert.

The word "pickle" (called "achar" in most north indian languages) is a different beast altogether. It is usually made from fruits or chiles soaked in oil for a long long time. Usually no cooking is involved. Again, this is to be had as an accompaniment to other food, like bread.

Hope this helps in reducing the confusion a bit.

Note my liberal use of the word "usually" -- like all things Indian, there is always quite a few exceptions to every darned rule.

[marlena spieler]

Thanks, Bong!

Marlena

[rkolluri]

I think there is enough of a gray area between chutneys and pickles that some overlap is inevitable.

Growing up in my South Indian Telegu household, we used the word chutney to refer to chutneys and a few things that are technically pickles. Come to think of it, I think our criteria for distinction between chutneys and pickles was primarily based on texture, the smoother the texture, the more likely it was a chutney. So pickled gongura leaves or green tamarind were often referred to as chutneys. If it had chunks of mango or lime in it, we referred to it as a pickle.

The seven entries for pickle at dictionary.com seems to have preserving as a common theme. However, one of the three entries for Chutney says a chutney is "...a warm or spicy condiment or pickle made in India..." I don't think that helped clarify anything.

Getting back to one of Monica's original questions, one fun way to enjoy a chutney (or pickle) is to mix them with some warm rice and ghee for a lazy Sunday evening dinner. I think this works well with some of the hotter, spicier chutneys (or pickles).

Chutney, Pickle, I like them all!

rkolluri

[Peppertrail]

episure, others,

a quick question about sesame oil:  we used the sesame oil available in the local market. compared to the sesame oil available in asian stores in the u.s this one had almost no aroma (almost analogous to the non-pungent mustard oil available here). was this an anomaly or do indian sesame oils generally not have the powerful, smoky sesame aroma?

thanks,

mongo

Mongo:

I checked with my friend in Delhi and she tells me that Tildil and Tilsona are two brands that are readily available in grocery stores in Delhi. In Khan Market she has also seen sesame oil imported from China and other East Asian countries. INA Market is another possible source. She din't say anything about the aroma of the two brands Tildil and Tilsona. I have not bought these brands in the South.

Ammini