Chefs: Sick of Customers Ordering Well-Done Steak?

[DonRocks]

Let’s sit around and be cool talking about how many ingredients we can wedge into this dish.

Let’s create a business plan for our second restaurant before we learn how to cook.

Let’s dismiss white-meat chicken and lean cuts of beef because we don’t have a clue what to do with them.

Let's practice using the foamer instead of understanding the basics of our craft.

Overcooked meat has insidiously become the norm in our restaurants.

Cheers,

Rocks.

[Jason Perlow]

Bad dinner, Don?

[DonRocks]

Yes, it was, darn it. And for what was seemingly the 9th time out of 10, a medium-rare steak came out medium-well. And I'm a sucker for not sending it back because overcooked meat cannot be undone, and it means the house loses the entire dish. Ordering a medium-rare steak is like playing Russian Roulette, except that the gun goes off most of the time.

It's pointless to name the restaurant because this problem is widespread and doubtlessly hammered into the minds of weary corporate chefs due to snippy customers and damnable legal fears, but I will say that Les Halles has a consistently wonderful Pétatou de Chèvre (a potato goat-cheese salad with frisée), and one of the best budget wine lists in all of Washington (a half-bottle of 2000 Guigal Cotes-du-Rhone is $12), and the frites are often brilliant. And their steaks are generally pretty darned good, too, although tonight I wish I ordered the plain old steak frites rather than splurging for the dry-aged strip @&%#@#%)(*@^$&*@#

Jonesin' for tartare,

Rocks.

[morela]

Qué pena...!

[Mark Sommelier]

Yes, it was, darn it. And for what was seemingly the 9th time out of 10, a medium-rare steak came out medium-well. And I'm a sucker for not sending it back because overcooked meat cannot be undone, and it means the house loses the entire dish. Ordering a medium-rare steak is like playing Russian Roulette, except that the gun goes off most of the time.

It's pointless to name the restaurant because this problem is widespread and doubtlessly hammered into the minds of weary corporate chefs due to snippy customers and damnable legal fears, but I will say that Les Halles has a consistently wonderful Pétatou de Chèvre (a potato goat-cheese salad with frisée), and one of the best budget wine lists in all of Washington (a half-bottle of 2000 Guigal Cotes-du-Rhone is $12), and the frites are often brilliant. And their steaks are generally pretty darned good, too, although tonight I wish I ordered the plain old steak frites rather than splurging for the dry-aged strip @&%#@#%)(*@^$&*@#

Jonesin' for tartare,

Rocks.

Half bottle of Guigal CDR costs $4, so $12 is normal. For the life of me Rocks, I can't imagine, other than you work close by, why you would go back to Les Halles. Go to Cap Grill. Go to Bobby Van's. Go to BdC. Les Halles sucks. It sucks like guys named Chuck. It Sucks like babies who eat spinach and say yuck........

[foodgeek]

Yes, it was, darn it. And for what was seemingly the 9th time out of 10, a medium-rare steak came out medium-well. And I'm a sucker for not sending it back because overcooked meat cannot be undone, and it means the house loses the entire dish. Ordering a medium-rare steak is like playing Russian Roulette, except that the gun goes off most of the time.

It's pointless to name the restaurant because this problem is widespread and doubtlessly hammered into the minds of weary corporate chefs due to snippy customers and damnable legal fears, but I will say that Les Halles has a consistently wonderful Pétatou de Chèvre (a potato goat-cheese salad with frisée), and one of the best budget wine lists in all of Washington (a half-bottle of 2000 Guigal Cotes-du-Rhone is $12), and the frites are often brilliant. And their steaks are generally pretty darned good, too, although tonight I wish I ordered the plain old steak frites rather than splurging for the dry-aged strip @&%#@#%)(*@^$&*@#

Jonesin' for tartare,

Rocks.

I've been getting overcooked meat for years now, both here and in NYC. I like medium well but not anything more than that...so I order medium....and it usually comes medium well. If it actually turns out medium...thats fine too, since I prefer that to well. *shrug*

[jparrott]

Les Halles's non-Cote-de-Boeuf steaks are far too thin (and, I suspect, their grill not quote hot enough) to differentiate consistently between med-rare, med, and med-well. So order rare or order the cote-de-boeuf.

Les Halles does not suck. Its bar is as well-stocked (or better) than most higher-end restos. And it's open at 3PM on a Sunday. And they make some darn good ice cream. And the tartare's better than BdC (as have been the frites recently, judging from more than one visit to both). And they have good, cheap bourgueil and chinon on the list, which on the whole is miles better than BdC's.

[jparrott]

Go to Cap Grill. Go to Bobby Van's. Go to BdC.

CG and BV's are considerably more expensive (good steaks, though), with crap wines at the bar. BdC is about the same with crap wines at the bar and no valet parking.

[DonRocks]

"Beethoven Opus 109 is something you will work towards, not something you will work on."

-- Anonymous eye-rolling piano teacher to anonymous cocky student.

For better or for worse, I've been to Les Halles many times over the years, and while it has gone through some rough periods (my dinner there with Mark & Co was the absolute worst it has ever been), I find myself returning, and not just because my office is nearby.

Despite the triple markup on the Guigal, it's still a perfectly enjoyable half-bottle for $12, and as jparrott noted, their list features lots of interesting Chinons, Bourgeuils, Cotes de Provence, etc., many of which are from the outstanding importer Neal Rosenthal.

For a lazy steak frites in the springtime, there's nowhere I'd rather be than on their patio.

[bilrus]

We are starting to learn more about the mysterious Mr. DonRocks.

He eats at restaurants (preferably high end) three or four meals a day (We've known that for while)

And now, apparently he works in an office donwtown/on the hill

Edited April 17, 2004 by bilrus (log)

[Mark Sommelier]

We are starting to learn more about the mysterious Mr. DonRocks.

He eats at restaurants (preferably high end) three or four meals a day (We've known that for while)

And now, apparently he works in an office donwtown/on the hill

Bill,

All pieces of the puzzle that is Rocks. He is certainly an enigma wrapped in an enchilada.

[Mabelline]

But not (hopefully) in a well-done steak--which oughta be a hanging offense.

[John W.]

Rocks is an enigma wrapped in an enchilada and then wrapped in nori. He's that kind of guy.

[stovetop]

All pieces of the puzzle that is Rocks. He is certainly an enigma wrapped in an enchilada. 

lol

stovetop

[Fat Guy]

The thing I especially enjoy about getting an overcooked steak is the position it puts me in with respect to the other people at the table. I really love sitting there with no food while the people I'm with first insist on waiting, then reluctantly eat their steaks (which have gotten cold), then offer me bites, and finally stare at me while I eat mine, which arrives just as they're finishing theirs. I also enjoy the contrast of temperature between my freshly refired steak and the remnants of all the cold, nasty, soggy $8 side dishes on the table.

[John W.]

The thing I especially enjoy about getting an overcooked steak is the position it puts me in with respect to the other people at the table. I really love sitting there with no food while the people I'm with first insist on waiting, then reluctantly eat their steaks (which have gotten cold), then offer me bites, and finally stare at me while I eat mine, which arrives just as they're finishing theirs. I also enjoy the contrast of temperature between my freshly refired steak and the remnants of all the cold, nasty, soggy $8 side dishes on the table.

How hard is it to bring a taste of soup or salad to you while you wait so that the table can continue to eat and also to replace any sides that might have gotten cold?

Not very.

The fun part of the temperature game is the difference between a Tuesday medium rare and a Saturday medium rare. So many permutations go into what a server inputs as the "guest's requested temperature." An art form.

Edited April 17, 2004 by John W. (log)

[stovetop]

Fat Guy you have a very funny sense of humor; you are joking are you not??

stovetop

I am the cook who likes cooking your well done steaks, I just mark the steak off, season nicely and put in my 500 degree oven, I never go all the way to well done, my understanding is people who eat well done do not like any blood or color, let it rest, put on plate, if you are with a group, the cook has to learn to time the steaks with your steak, I think cooks might have a hard time with timming these days??

Oh!! One other variable; the beef these days suck, I miss my Alberta beef, Aussie beef is not as good, to lean and grainy and taste like ba!

[Fat Guy]

How hard is it to bring a taste of soup or salad to you while you wait so that the table can continue to eat and also to replace any sides that might have gotten cold?

A lot fucking harder than cooking the steak to the right temperature in the first place.

[John W.]

It would seem as such.

[bourdain]

Hate hearing this about the DC store. And not for the first time--by a long shot. Both DC and Coral Gables have for some time been treated within the company as bastard children--perhaps too far removed from central for the kind of constant vigilance required. During my full time reign at the Park Ave shop--I always resisted any entreaties to expand my portfolio with any responsibility beyond m four walls--and fought like dog to keep any of my prime staff from transfer. Very recently, however, the chef of the NYC mothership, Gwenael Le Pape has begun moving regularly between stores--there is relatively new and better management (as opposed to a truly wretched one a while back) and I hope you'll see some marked improvement.

I feel your pain--believe me--and all I can suggest is that if you get an overdone steak-- send it back and demand a new one. Letters to Les Halles mgmt in New York via website ARE read and DO make an impression.

[Fat Guy]

Tony you worked in a restaurant?

[bourdain]

Yeah. A summer job at IHOP. It was pretty cool.

[SWoodyWhite]

My other half, der Brucer, has long had a solution for getting his steak cooked the way he likes at restaurants. The server will ask "And how would you like that cooked, sir?" Der B replies "What would you call bright pink in the center?" The server stumbles for a second, recovers and gives a name, then takes the order to the kitchen and tells them "Bright pink in the center."

Works like a charm every time. The chefs know what he's referring to, because they've been told exactly what the customer wants without the mumbo-jumbo of the vagaries of what medium-rare or medium can mean. But then, he's also the sort of cutomer who would rather tell the staff to take their time and get things right. By being supportive of the staff, rather than antagonistic, we've rarely been disappointed with a meal. The food ends up tasting better, the service is better, and everyone ends up much happier.

[otello]

Best response I have ever gotten to the inevitable improperly-cooked steak:

Sam and Harry's in town a few years back. Porterhouse was more than medium rare. The server took it away and the restaurant manager brought me a order of shrimp cocktail, unsolicited, to occupy my taste buds while I waited. By that point, the wait was well worth it.

[BackwardsHat]

This is a great thread...

Nothing is more infuriating than getting an overcooked steak... I always order medium, and usually get between medium-rare to medium-well, SELDOM do I actually get a medium steak... The sad fact is that I've basically accepted is that the only place I'll get a perfectly cooked steak is from the grill in my backyard...